Penetrating the Front

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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Jaybird180
This month's issue of AOPA Flight Training magazine calls it 'The Weather Issue'. Inside is an article explaining frontal systems.

The summary (that I got from it) is that fronts are bad, stay away from them. However, I know that's not practical, pilots fly through them all the time? right?

I've never flown through one, but I'm sure that as my experience increases, I can expect that to be part of the game, when to proceed and when not to proceed.

Can someone help make this easier to understand?
 
Jaybird180 said:
This month's issue of AOPA Flight Training magazine calls it 'The Weather Issue'. Inside is an article explaining frontal systems.

The summary (that I got from it) is that fronts are bad, stay away from them. However, I know that's not practical, pilots fly through them all the time? right?

I've never flown through one, but I'm sure that as my experience increases, I can expect that to be part of the game, when to proceed and when not to proceed.

Can someone help make this easier to understand?
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Yes I can, it does require flying in it with you though to show you.
 
Jaybird180 said:
This month's issue of AOPA Flight Training magazine calls it 'The Weather Issue'. Inside is an article explaining frontal systems.

The summary (that I got from it) is that fronts are bad, stay away from them. However, I know that's not practical, pilots fly through them all the time? right?

I've never flown through one, but I'm sure that as my experience increases, I can expect that to be part of the game, when to proceed and when not to proceed.

Can someone help make this easier to understand?
Click to expand...

You can think of a front not as impenetrable, but as a place where weather will likely be, and you can expect some bumps when actually passing through the front, just due to wind shear. If its a cold front you'll be through it rather quickly.

Depending on the strength of the front it may be impenetrable due to a long squall line or tightly clustered Tstorms, or it might be so benign that there are just some clouds, maybe a few bumps and hardly any rain.
 
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Fronts are not dangerous necessarily. Its the associated weather that CAN take place if the conditions are right, like squall lines. A lot of times you'll fly through one and not notice a thing.
 
And sometimes you can be rewarded with some wonderful tailwinds just ahead of a front....

There are many types of front - the main characteristic is some kind of wind shift. I really don't worry about going through a front - I'm more concerned about the actual weather conditions along the frontal boundary. Some fronts are really begnign... you won't even know you've been through it save for a change in winds and/or temperatures. Others will spawn squall lines and other bad weather events (stay clear of those when they're active).
 
Jaybird180 said:
I hope you guys can read this article, because he makes it out to be something that T-Storms will likely be associated with. The article is called Front Fundamentals

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2012/June/feature-front-fundamentals.html
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The article is correct, though it sounds like it makes the reader assume that ALL fronts are associated with storms and it also says that you need to steer clear of ALL precipitation echoes by at least 20nm, which is ridiculous, though a brand new pilot might be wise to heed that advice.
 
Well the purpose of this thread is to help rub off some of my newness.

Henning said:
Yes I can, it does require flying in it with you though to show you.
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Henning, I thought that you made it your general practice to avoid flying in IMC or weather as much as possible.

Otherwise, I'd welcome the opportunity.
 
Obviously any dynamic change in the weather status quo is something to consider when planning or executing a flight. While the information in the article is fundamentally correct, I agree it seems a little hyped up. Oddly the author didn't mention the most dangerous, IMHO, type of front, an occlusion where warmer wet air overrides cold stable air. Driving through this you can sometimes get treated to freezing rain, an event that will leave a lasting impression on you. The resultant mixed icing can build so fast on your airframe that even robust systems are overwhelmed in minutes. Been there, done that, not fun.
 
A "front" is wherever an airmass with different characteristics overtakes another airmass.

HOW different those airmasses are in terms of moisture, temperature, and the speed of the overtake is what drives the "weather" around the front.

As you take longer flights, the probablility of crossing a front goes up, and that means you need to be prepared for the weather changing. Sometimes it can just be a change in wind direction or speed, or temperature with not much else. Other times, you land, and wait for the front to pass over YOU instead of the other way around, particularly when you're VFR.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I hope you guys can read this article, because he makes it out to be something that T-Storms will likely be associated with. The article is called Front Fundamentals

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2012/June/feature-front-fundamentals.html
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:rolleyes:

I, too, can wave my arms and say scary things.... :rolleyes:

So the general dscription of fronts and what they do is correct. But he make them seem scarier than they are. Yeah, fronts can cause bad weather - BUT there's got to be moisture in the air (so look at the wind circulation and see if it's tending to bring moist air in). The amount of lift is critical, too.

I take issue with the statement that weather avoidance gear does no good if a storm "pops up around you". If you're using that gear correctly and using your Mark-I eyeballs, you generally won't find a storm "pop-up" without some prior indication. It sure as heck isn't going to happen JUST BECAUSE you crossed a front. One reason I have a turbocharged plane is to get up above the lower cloud decks so I can see the build-ups.... before they turn into cells.

And you can get storms not associated with fronts. Just look at T.S. Alberto....

Scott D. can do a much better job of describing it.
 
wsuffa said:
If you're using that gear correctly and using your Mark-I eyeballs, you generally won't find a storm "pop-up" without some prior indication. It sure as heck isn't going to happen JUST BECAUSE you crossed a front.
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:yeahthat:

While you're gathering weather experience keep your eyes open and a couple of outs in your back pocket. Sitting on the ground watching something nasty develop and pass is a great education.
 
I "penetrated" a weak cold front in December in the Cutlass. It featured scattered cumulus clouds and wind shear. I went over the top of the scattered layer.

On the way back I was climbing past the scattered layer and was hit by a single sharp turbulence event enough to strain us against the shoulder harness. There was only one really big bump and I assume it represented the wind shear at the actual frontal boundary.

The point is, the strength of the front really matters.
 
wsuffa said:
:rolleyes:


And you can get storms not associated with fronts. Just look at T.S. Alberto....

Scott D. can do a much better job of describing it.
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That thing popped up out of nowhere. When I left for the coast of NC friday, the forecast had a low off the coast that necessitated I keep a close eye on the weather all weekend. Then all of a sudden on saturday, I get a news headline alert on my phone that the Low was now a named storm! Which had me scrambling to check the weather and see how my sunday departure was going to be. It was sucky, but flyable. I wound up departing with sub 1000 ft ceilings, low vis in mist, and showers all around with light turbulence for most of the flight and short periods of moderate and one or two occasions of heavy rain.
 
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In our area fronts can be warm and cold. Cold front is just a bit of gusty wind and high clouds. Warm fronts are nasty, especially in the summer: lots of convective activity and showers, even hail. I avoid warm fronts and think nothing of cold ones, just make sure the winds are acceptable.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Well the purpose of this thread is to help rub off some of my newness.



Henning, I thought that you made it your general practice to avoid flying in IMC or weather as much as possible.

Otherwise, I'd welcome the opportunity.
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That is correct, I penetrate fronts while remaining VMC underneath. I make Atlanta to Fort Lauderdale when airliners are waiting. I also do fly IFR up among the clouds steering for the VMC slots so I can keep an eye on things.

Spring and summer fronts are hardly ever solid IMC.
 
Fronts should be considered when planning a northerly or southerly route parallel to a front and the expected time of departure coincides with the frontal passage (or the weather affects of the frontal passage). It may be wise to delay the flight until the front passes or plan a Z shaped route; knowing at some point in the flight you may need to turn into perpendicular to the front and fly ~50-100 odd miles through a "good spot" to get to the otherside. Typically it is a call made in the air using Nexrad, Radar, PIREPS, and ATC advice.
 
Fronts in the glider can be a lot of fun as long as you don't mind going the same direction of the front. Many have nearly continuous lift in the front. I have flown for miles up and down the front gaining or maintaining altitude the whole time, fly at speeds over 100kts to stay out of the clouds. I think the longest one I if flown was over 95 miles without turning or loosing altitude. I could have done much more but the front wasn't going the same way I wanted to go.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
The only reason I can give the article a break is because it is in flight training mag and written for student pilots.
 
Baron2PG said:
Fronts should be considered when planning a northerly or southerly route parallel to a front and the expected time of departure coincides with the frontal passage (or the weather affects of the frontal passage). It may be wise to delay the flight until the front passes or plan a Z shaped route; knowing at some point in the flight you may need to turn into perpendicular to the front and fly ~50-100 odd miles through a "good spot" to get to the otherside. Typically it is a call made in the air using Nexrad, Radar, PIREPS, and ATC advice.
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Reviewing the 48hour PROG indicates that this information may be pertinent. I intend to fly from DC to Norfolk area then onto Outer Banks, NC or Myrtle Beach on Thursday. My interpretation of the progs indicate the front will be stationary for awhile and will get weaker. There is some symbology that I will have to lookup (is this all in the AIM?).

hpc_48_fcst.gif
 
scottd said:
I am not a big fan of generalized articles such as this. That's because there are way too many exceptions that don't fit the mold as described by Mr. Horne.

If you look at a surface weather map and are overly concerned about what's happening at or near the frontal system, you are missing the point in my opinion. I have found that the surface frontal system is usually the least of my worries. Some of the worst icing can be experienced in a juicy stratocumulus deck several hundred miles behind a surface cold front as I discuss in this member workshop. Same is true for thunderstorms. Often a squall line or line of severe convection can occur hundreds of miles prior to the actual cold front. And it usually gets very windy at the surface after the passage of a cold front, but does that mean the potential for moderate or greater turbulence aloft? Not necessarily, as I discuss in this member workshop.

A frontal system is like the table of contents in a book; it just tells you where things are located and doesn't tell you much about the content. Don't get hung up on crossing a frontal boundary. Instead, understand the dynamics of the weather systems that will affect your proposed route. That will tell you the most about what adverse weather to expect.
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Scott- As we've discussed before, I have a steep gradient to climb to get to understanding. I just recently have begun to even look at PROG charts after getting a refresher from Cap'n Ron. I learned Wx just well enough to pass my Private written and have very little practical weather experience. I still consider myself a layman in terms of Weather.

I don't fault my groundschool and was a 'good' student, but this seems to me to be an area of personal knowledge that needs improvement. And from what I hear from CFIs, many other new Pilots feel similar to me about their Wx knowledge.
 
If you look up and to the right of the prigs you'll see an I in a blue box. Click on that and it will give you explanations of the symbols

And weather is an area that is great for continued learning!
 
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Jeanie said:
If you look up and to the right of the prigs you'll see an I in a blue box. Click on that and it will give you explanations of the symbols

And weather is an area that is great for continued learning!
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch.
 
Scott mentioned the Aviaiton Forecast Discussions in another thread. I'm flying to the outer banks friday night myself. Weather looks relatively good this weekend.

OUTLOOK...SLOW MOVING UPPER SYSTEM WILL RESULT IN CONTINUED
UNSETTLED WEATHER WED AND THU...WITH THE POTENTIAL FOR FLIGHT
RESTRICTIONS IN PATCHY FOG EACH MORNING AND IN SCT CONVECTION EACH
AFTN. CLEARING FINALLY BUILDS IN FROM THE WEST FOR FRIDAY AND INTO
THE UPCOMING HOLIDAY WEEKEND.

It sounds like there are going to be air mass tstorms and a fair amount of convection thursday. What time of day are you flying? AM would be best.

If there are scattered cumulus and scattered storms you'd do best to fly at 9-10,000 feet and get a nice smooth ride with a clear picture of all the thunderheads around you. If the clouds go to broken, or start building near your altitude, get below, and just avoid any rain shafts you see.

XM weather is a big help for strategic planning if you're below the clouds and cant see but 8-10 miles due to the summer haze.

Flying on this type of day is best done VFR. If you don't have XM and you are not able to get above the clouds, you'll be down low and probably on FF with some type of approach controller who usually has weather radar. You can advise them that you have no onboard weather, and ask how things are looking between you and your destination. If the controller has time (around here, they usually do) they will help you out, and you can ask them to suggest a heading.

Flight watch will also do this for you if the approach controller is busy. If you are on FF you can advise the controller that you'll be talking to flight service and you'll be back in a minute... then call up flight watch. Its the same deal with them, just tell them where you are, where you are going and ask what's on the radar between you and your destination.
 
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I'd like to do a Wed evening departure with an overnight in the Hampton, Va area, then a Thurs early afternoon departure

I'll see if I can find the thread refrenced above, unless you have the link?
 
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