PBOR2 and Color Blindness

PilotRPI

PilotRPI

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PilotRPI
My current 3rd class reads "not valid for night flight or color signal control." This is due to colorblindness. I'm on the verge when I take the test (reading numbers from the dot plates), and have no concerns about white, red, and green in real life (verified by an optometrist). With PBOR2, what happens to that limitation? Would I still need a special issuance from the FAA with something like the light gun signal test (which I never took), or can I get this taken care of during my required 4 year doctor visits?
 
This isn't one of the listed conditions requiring an SI, but how color blindness will be handled isn't spelled out in the bill so it's anyone's guess at this point. Most likely it would have to be handled at the 4 year exam - there's even a mention of color vision there, it's one of the things you're supposed to have checked. But there's no mention of standards, of how well you need to do to "pass" - and that's true of a lot of things at this point.
 
OP: You do not need a special issuance. You can take a 10 minute SODA flight and it's gone forever. Ask me how I know :) I am blind in one eye and color blind in the other - literally. Thanks to Doc Bruce as always!
 
I've wondered that same thing, as I have that limitation on my 3rd class as well. I'm fairly certain I could pass a SODA ride, as I can tell the difference between red, green and white pretty well. However, I'd hate to bust that (or have an irrational fear of doing so) and then have no chance of having the restriction removed whatsoever. I'd rather take every alternative vision test that's acceptable to the FAA and hopefully passing one of those and not doing a SODA ride.

But, like you, I'm curious as to whether this is a restriction that is negated by PBOR2 and we can self-certify or have it included in the regular 4 year exam.
 
There are many items that are not spelled out in the legislation language. My guess is that items like various SI conditions and vision issues (such as color blindness) will be part of the rules making process that's to happen once POTUS applies his signature.
 
DrewG said:
I've wondered that same thing, as I have that limitation on my 3rd class as well. I'm fairly certain I could pass a SODA ride, as I can tell the difference between red, green and white pretty well. However, I'd hate to bust that (or have an irrational fear of doing so) and then have no chance of having the restriction removed whatsoever. I'd rather take every alternative vision test that's acceptable to the FAA and hopefully passing one of those and not doing a SODA ride.

But, like you, I'm curious as to whether this is a restriction that is negated by PBOR2 and we can self-certify or have it included in the regular 4 year exam.
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If you are 100% you can tell light gun signals (Go practice!) - just schedule SODA with FSDO and let it rip - once its done its done. The new PBOR will not have a bearing once you do it.. .But then again who knows anymore with all the new legislation...
 
EminiTrader said:
OP: You do not need a special issuance. You can take a 10 minute SODA flight and it's gone forever. Ask me how I know :) I am blind in one eye and color blind in the other - literally. Thanks to Doc Bruce as always!
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NO

Or the restriction is permanent.

Just have it done at a optometrist and bring the results in, many AMEs have old plates shown under poor light.

Or take a equivalent FAA blessed test.
 
I took the test at an optometrist's office and passed there, but failed in the AME's office with the old plates and poor lighting. He told me very clearly, that even though I had the FAA form filled out, it was not a different test and couldn't get rid of the colorblindness restriction. AME said the only way to get the restriction removed was to take a different test (one that is not available in my area). Was he wrong?
 
aggie06 said:
I took the test at an optometrist's office and passed there, but failed in the AME's office with the old plates and poor lighting. He told me very clearly, that even though I had the FAA form filled out, it was not a different test and couldn't get rid of the colorblindness restriction. AME said the only way to get the restriction removed was to take a different test (one that is not available in my area). Was he wrong?
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As others have said, you can get the restriction removed by taking the SODA ride that you arrange with the local FSDO. You can practice at local towered field with a CFI by asking them to shoot you light gun signals. That's assuming you haven't already failed the SODA (I *think* you get two tries, but that's from memory so could be wrong. Practice first, don't take the test unless you already know you'll pass.)
 
PilotRPI said:
My current 3rd class reads "not valid for night flight or color signal control." This is due to colorblindness. I'm on the verge when I take the test (reading numbers from the dot plates), and have no concerns about white, red, and green in real life (verified by an optometrist).
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Do you take the test in flourescent lighting? That scenario pushes marginal people over the cliff. If this is what happened to you, take the test out to the parking lot and do it in bright sunlight. I'll bet you will pass.

-Skip
 
My first AME was "old plates, poor fluorescent lighting" - passed marginally. Optho visit, basically 100%. Same with new AME that does tests in sunlight.
 
If you can see well enough to get a driver's license, I'll bet you'll be fine. Here's why:

Vision is checked when you get a driver's license. I think that is a key reason the driver's license is mentioned in the sport pilot rules and the new legislation -- you can get a driver's license in my state if you can see if you can see 20:40 and have some peripheral vision, the same as for an FAA class III.

There's no color vision test for driving in my state, and I assume other states as well. However, sport pilots haven't been crashing their small planes because of their color vision, and so, that's all the argument needed that color vision shouldn't matter for other general aviation pilots with small planes.
 
Back in the day in the USAF, I passed the colored yarn in a box test when I couldn't see s*** on the plates. Good enough for the FAA when I got my PPL. When I took the Class III many years later, I flunked. The AME said if I could dredge up the old Certificate, he could issue with no restrictions. Never could find it and didn't really care enough to take the SODA.

Another unanswered question is monovision contacts. I can see perfectly well with them but have to take the reader lens out and carry reading glasses to satisfy the FAA. Actually makes things worse IMHO. Since I passed all drivers eye tests with monovision lenses, it should be ok but probably won't.

Cheers
 
NoHeat said:
There's no color vision test for driving in my state, and I assume other states as well. However, sport pilots haven't been crashing their small planes because of their color vision, and so, that's all the argument needed that color vision shouldn't matter for other general aviation pilots with small planes.
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Then why is testing of color vision specifically mentioned in the exam checklist part of the bill? Seems there had to be some pushback on that from someone, else they'd have left it out. (It could well be for political reasons, nothing to do with the science.)
 
It is hard to say what the FAA will require when the "rules" are finally issued, but for now, the best bet is to assume you must meet all the current medical requirements but tested only once every four years instead of two.
 
azure said:
Then why is testing of color vision specifically mentioned in the exam checklist part of the bill?
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You're right, and I was wrong.

It does indeed instruct the FAA that the section for the physician to complete should include "a clinical examination of ... vision (distant, near, and intermediate vision, field of vision, color vision, and ocular alignment)"
 
I looked into the alternate color tests and they are damn near impossible to find. My cousin was an optometrist for the army and actually had one of the old crappy machines in his office. It was in the middle of nowhere in western Texas and would cost me a fortune to get there and back.

If i can ever find one, do I just get a letter from the optometrist and send it to the FAA?
 
OP: worse case - do what I did, and many here have done - ask Dr. Bruce. I have all of our emails and precise instructions from him how to deal with the colorblindness. I did what he said and it is a non-issue permanently.
 
I just got a letter from FAA along a 1st Class with color vision restriction. It has been devastating since a professional pilot for over 40 years. I have a mild green deficiency, so can one of your send me Dr Bruce's contact, please?

Many thanks

Tony
 
EminTrader,

Do you mind to send those Dr Bruce's emails?
I'm facing this sad situation, I have flown (still doing) for over 40 years, actually flying a Gufstream G550 all over the world, never ever had any issue identifying colors, but I can't pass the Ishara test. I'm considering on taking the SODA test. I'd take any advise. Many thanks
 
OK. I'm considering taking the SODA, what do you recommend as far as getting prepared? Was it difficult? Many thanks
 
TBJet, where are you located in the US?
I do have EVERY FAA legal color dot test, and do have a Navy Farnsworth Lantern
 
I'm in Northeast of Oklahoma, I don't mind to travel to see you. I sure do appreciate.
I'll be able to do it next week if you can see me.

Many thanks
 
Bruce, quick question. If I can pass the ishihara or alternate test, can I get an unrestricted (for color vision medical)? I've had the colorvision issue since my first medical in '94, and got the 3rd class SODA in '95.
 
The color vision test is the ultimate in FAA stupidity. You need tested for it once. Development of color blindedness as an adult is vanishingly rare.
 
My SODA flight was simple. He asked the colors on the sectional, light gun signals in the air, and depth reception. That was it.
 
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