Path to Instrument/Commercial

[Erice]

I am a new private pilot with aspirations to become a part-time CFI. I?d like advice about the path to follow to getting the instrument rating and the commercial license (under part 61). I have easy access to a Cessna 150 (equipped for VFR only), but other IFR-ready airplanes are available at a neighboring airport.

Is it better to train for the instrument rating first, then learn the commercial maneuvers, or vice versa?

I?m thinking that I can learn the commercial maneuvers first, practice them in the 150, all the while building time (to accrue toward the 50 hrs of XC required for the instrument rating under part 61). Then start the instrument training and pass the instrument checkride (in an IFR-equipped airplane of course). Then return to the commercial maneuvers, including 10 hours in a complex airplane, and finally take the commercial checkride.

Are there any pitfalls to this strategy, such as the need to practice the maneuvers in the plane in which I will take the commercial checkride? Do you have to take the commercial checkride in a complex aircraft?

-Eric
________
launch box vaporizer

 

[tonycondon]

the common path is to do the instrument first, as it helps build the time towards the 250 needed for commercial. then do the cross countries once you are instrument rated, then manuevers and 10 hours complex with instructor, and all that jazz. If you wanted to combine stuff well, make all your IR training flights cross countries so you get the 50 hrs PIC XC time and the instrument training taken out in the same blow. plus you can file IFR for all the trips and have some really good experience beyond just practicing approaches locally. also buddy up with some others working on IR and get some safety pilot time, towards your 250.

 

[jesse]

I'm kind of working towards the same thing as you right now. I am studying for my instrument rating now. As soon as I get my instrument finished I will be ready to start my commercial. I really should have did the instrument rating by now. I have over 100 hours XC.

I don't really expect the commercial to be that big of a deal. I'll have to do a few hours working on the commercial maneuvers. After that I'd like to get my CFI and do part time instruction just to keep me busy.

If I were you I'd just knock out that instrument rating as fast as you can and than worry about the commercial. How many hours of XC do you have right now?

 

[Henning]

I am a new private pilot with aspirations to become a part-time CFI. I’d like advice about the path to follow to getting the instrument rating and the commercial license (under part 61). I have easy access to a Cessna 150 (equipped for VFR only), but other IFR-ready airplanes are available at a neighboring airport.

Is it better to train for the instrument rating first, then learn the commercial maneuvers, or vice versa?

I’m thinking that I can learn the commercial maneuvers first, practice them in the 150, all the while building time (to accrue toward the 50 hrs of XC required for the instrument rating under part 61). Then start the instrument training and pass the instrument checkride (in an IFR-equipped airplane of course). Then return to the commercial maneuvers, including 10 hours in a complex airplane, and finally take the commercial checkride.

Are there any pitfalls to this strategy, such as the need to practice the maneuvers in the plane in which I will take the commercial checkride? Do you have to take the commercial checkride in a complex aircraft?

-Eric

I don't see any problems with your idea. Might as well learn the commercial manuvers and practice them whenever you get a chance. The key here though is that you have to learn them right, or you'll have to unlearn/relearn them later. If you learn them right, I can't see them doing you any harm and they make a nice vfr respite in you ifr training. 40 hrs under the hood can get annoying, plus learning them pre instrument helps your flying skills some. It used to be you needed 125 hrs to sit the IR checkride allowing the fresh PP to get about 40 hrs of flying in before starting the IR training. I used that period between PPL&IR for Multi and Aerobatics as well as X/C. You do have to do PART of your commercial ride in a retract, but you can demonstrate the manuvers in a 150 and do the retractable stuff in a different airplane. If you want to go that route, the most efficient way is to get your multi training, then prep for one long a** weekend doing a combined checkride of CPSEL & CPMEL where you do the retractable portion of the commercial in the twin. If you do the SEL portion in a Lake Amphib (I did mine at Shebly's) you can add CPSES as well. It doesn't really matter what airplane you practice the manuvers in, the principles behind them don't change. Good luck.

 

[poadeleted20]

Personally, I think it's better to do the IR first -- after all, there's no minimum total hours for that, whereas the Commercial requires 250 total time, and most all the IR training requirements are useful towards the Commercial (instrument time, total time, XC PIC time). By doing the IR first, you can have them both done in 250 total, but doing the Commercial first will put you well over 250 by the time you get both.

Given your current access, I'd suggest spending most of your time building the 50 hours XC PIC time in the C-150, and getting your IR training started (basic instrument training requires only the six flight instruments and a single VOR) and basic commercial maneuvers. You can worry about the advanced IR training (approaches and the long IFR XC) later, and finally the complex stuff after the IR is in your pocket. So, the plan you suggest sounds pretty good to me.

And yes, at least part of the Commercial practical test must be done in a complex aircraft.

 

[SkyHog]

Here's my dillema, still looking for good advice on this, if anyone's game.

I have about 270 hours total time, of which includes 128 cross country hours and those cross country hours have all of my solo cross country requirements met for commercial.

I do not have my IR yet. Do most of you still suggest the IR before Commercial? Commercial seems so much easier, I am tempted to just do it and then go for IR afterwards.

 

[ScottM]

I don't really expect the commercial to be that big of a deal. I'll have to do a few hours working on the commercial maneuvers. After that I'd like to get my CFI and do part time instruction just to keep me busy.

The hardest part of the commercial is getting back into flying by looking outside. When you do your PP you really are trying to keep the plane in the air and not much more. You will learn some basics but really do not have much of an idea of what flying is all about until many hours later after you have been flying in different environments, WX, etc.

Getting thos ehours in is when you start to really learn. Getting your IR you really concentrate on flying the plane precisely using the guages. So when you return to do the commercial the ide of doing steep turns, lazy eights and such by looking out the window to find points of reference can be really foreign to you. It is hard to break that habit of the scan that you worked so hard on during the IR.

 

[Henning]

Here's my dillema, still looking for good advice on this, if anyone's game.

I have about 270 hours total time, of which includes 128 cross country hours and those cross country hours have all of my solo cross country requirements met for commercial.

I do not have my IR yet. Do most of you still suggest the IR before Commercial? Commercial seems so much easier, I am tempted to just do it and then go for IR afterwards.

You are in a position where you should do your commercial first, then you can write off your instrument training.

 

[poadeleted20]

You are in a position where you should do your commercial first, then you can write off your instrument training.

Note that 10 hours of instrument flight training is required for the Commercial -- this training must come from a CFI-IA (up to half may be from an AGI/IGI/CFI-IA in a flight simulation device, but at least 5 hours must be in an airplane), but it is applicable towards the 40 total/15 training instrument hours required for the IR (and, for those pursuing the IR first, vice versa -- the IR training fills the 10-hour square for the Commercial). Thus, you can, to an extent, pursue both at the same time.

 

[gismo]

Here's my dillema, still looking for good advice on this, if anyone's game.

I have about 270 hours total time, of which includes 128 cross country hours and those cross country hours have all of my solo cross country requirements met for commercial.

I do not have my IR yet. Do most of you still suggest the IR before Commercial? Commercial seems so much easier, I am tempted to just do it and then go for IR afterwards.

Depends on what you think you would get out of the Commercial certificate. Unless you are looking to move right into a CFI certificate as well or want to fly pipeline patrol, drag banners, etc, the Comm cert buys you almost nothing. OTOH an IR is extremely valuable if you do any cross country flying where the purpose is actually getting somewhere. For that reason alone I'd go for the IR first unless you truly have a need for a VFR comm. For validation just remember your attempted trip home from here.

 

[Henning]

Depends on what you think you would get out of the Commercial certificate. Unless you are looking to move right into a CFI certificate as well or want to fly pipeline patrol, drag banners, etc, the Comm cert buys you almost nothing. OTOH an IR is extremely valuable if you do any cross country flying where the purpose is actually getting somewhere. For that reason alone I'd go for the IR first unless you truly have a need for a VFR comm. For validation just remember your attempted trip home from here.

I got a substantial break in my insurance for getting my CPL, they even sent me back a check for part of my premium. Wonder what happened to Southern Cross insurance? They sure were good to me.

 

[SkyHog]

I got a substantial break in my insurance for getting my CPL, they even sent me back a check for part of my premium. Wonder what happened to Southern Cross insurance? They sure were good to me.

Insurance is pretty much the only reason I'd do it. I may get my CFI some day, not sure, but I know I'll never work in airplanes as a primary job, its too stressful and low pay nowadays.

Although trafficwatch/pipelines might be fun.

 

[gismo]

Insurance is pretty much the only reason I'd do it. I may get my CFI some day, not sure, but I know I'll never work in airplanes as a primary job, its too stressful and low pay nowadays.

Check with your agent, but I doubt that a commercial certificate will have any noticeable effect on your rates and certainly not as much as an IR.

Although trafficwatch/pipelines might be fun.

Maybe for the first day or two.,

 

[SkyHog]

Check with your agent, but I doubt that a commercial certificate will have any noticeable effect on your rates and certainly not as much as an IR.

Yeah, I should check into that. No need to waste time on a rating that won't do me much good except a reset n the BFR clock.

Maybe for the first day or two.,

LOL. Yeah. I'm sure after the first time I have to make a questionable flight in questionable conditions on a route I've flown so many times its boring would be when I'd question my decision. But - its still flying, right?

 

[Henning]

LOL. Yeah. I'm sure after the first time I have to make a questionable flight in questionable conditions on a route I've flown so many times its boring would be when I'd question my decision. But - its still flying, right?

The interesting thing was I rarely looked up to the same view twice, but never had to look up to get the view of the gal sunbathing by the pool out in the middle of a huge ranch, She'd wave, I'd circle and go on. Twice a week as long as the weather held. Some times the weather gets you in tight, but the worst thing is they were putting up new cell towers every freaking week. Playing dodge-em planes with F-16s and B-1B keeps it from getting too boring through central TX. No matter how crappy the plane and the job was though, it beat the hell out of selling cars at the dealership I did.

 

[wsuffa]

Insurance is pretty much the only reason I'd do it. I may get my CFI some day, not sure, but I know I'll never work in airplanes as a primary job, its too stressful and low pay nowadays.

Although trafficwatch/pipelines might be fun.

I got 5% reduction on the insurance. The Instrument was a MUCH bigger reduction, and allowed for smooth coverage.