Parents of teens -- HELP!

What happened to the days when parents were in charge and children listened to them or paid a steep price for not listening to them?
Mark B

You know, I was about to post something similar; What has changed? Seems like this is an epidemic that has swept the continent recently. I'm sure it was not like this when we (the 40-60 yr olds here) were kids. There was a general respect and discipline that is not present now.
In my tiny town, we find parents coddling their children, putting them on pedestals, protecting them from every minor calamity, giving them every toy their heart desires. They want for nothing, so they appreciate nothing. My own nephews are still at home at age 28!! Parents don't give them motivation and do give them comforts so why get a trade or a job...just live off mom and dad!
Sorry for the outburst...and I qualify my comments with your consideration of my child-rearing experience...exactly none. But I am not blind to what goes on around me.
Good luck Ken and all other parents. A tremendously difficult job in these times.
 
My wife and I had issues with the "gifted and talented" programs, GATE, International Baccalaurate programs et al. Both my boys qualified for and were invited to participate in these programs. We discussed it with some others and decided to not pursue it, as it required considerably more effort for a non-weighted grade, which could have negatively impacted college options. A "B" in an advanced class is still a "B", and takes the GPA down. We opted for other classes or challenges of the boys' choosing. Is it possible the procrastination is a result of being a bit overwhelmed or perhaps he feels overloaded? Possibly some organizational training or time management skills could benefit? And pass them on to me, 'cause Lord knows I could use it! :)
 
Welcome to my pain Ken! I tell people that I'm for abortion up to age 20!
Look at this picture of my 23 year old... :hairraise: Feel better now! :(
I bet she sets off the metal detector even when she's not anywhere NEAR the airport! And, even though she's been metallized, she still seems like a pretty good person, if smiles count for anything!
 
Something else is likely going on. Some things don't change over time, and one is the pressure to fit in. It isn't cool, in American culture, to be smart or do well. That's true in good schools and bad. In good schools, at least, there are enough kids who do well and don't buy that. In bad schools, well, it's a race to the bottom.

I taught 15-17yr olds, social studies and economics, from "regular" to honors to AP. Except for some AP kids for whom an A- was failure, most wanted to hide anything resembling good grades, and many chose not to study/work so others wouldn't scorn them. Plus, never discount the effect of women (at that age, girls). Maybe he has his eye on someone and is worried about seeming to nerdy (to use an outdated phrase).

Talk to his teachers/coaches to get a feel for what's going on in/out of the classroom. You've probably asked about in-classroom stuff. Probe them for some of the out-of-classroom stuff, even scuttlebutt. Teachers notice who's hanging with whom, etc. It might point you in the right direction.

Some have also had luck with taking kids to some really tough jobsites for a few days to show them how much harder things are when you don't do well in school.

Good luck Ken. As long as you're worried, and seeking help, you're ahead of the game!!!
 
Ken, here's my $.03:

I don't think this is about a lack of challenge or motivation, it sounds like a control issue to me. IOW he's telling you that "you can't make me" (get good grades, study, care etc). And the bad news is I don't know how you can "fix it". I do think the solution involves treating him more like an adult than a kid. Something along the lines of: "We will love you no matter what you do. Life will be better for both of us if you chose to keep your grades up, but that's your choice." You might be able to get him to realize the advantages (to him) of keeping up with the studies, but I doubt you'll be able to force him to apply himself if he doesn't want to. Probably the most potent incentive would be anything that leads to impressing and/or attracting girls. It might even be possible that he's decided that he has to "dumb down" to be attractive to the opposite sex, AFaIK that's a common conclusion for "brainy" kids his age.

A good child psychologist would probably have a better explanation though.

FWIW, my 14 yo daughter is still doing well in school and she puts in more than the effort required to just get by. I sure don't know where she gets that from because I was just the opposite, doing no more than the bare minimum. We've never pushed her to excel in class, but have always praised (and rewarded) her success. Hopefully I won't have to face your dilemma with her.

And here's an alternative possibility: My school days were very different. I would get good grades as long as I felt the subject matter but I would fall behind if I wasn't interested. The only reason I got pretty good grades is that I could do so with minimal effort most of the time although I was pretty inconsistent. I was also pretty good at putting things off to the last minute, something that haunts me to this day. Fortunately I've always been pretty good at working under pressure. Anyway the reason I mentioned all that is that there were a few times that I let things pile up a little too high, to the point where I felt overwhelmed and at that point it became difficult to get anything done. I'm wondering if your son has simply reached a similar point.

Good luck.
 
When I was that age, I acted very similar. Getting jobs washing dishes taught me that there were some things I never wanted to do for a living and got me more focused.

Now my kids are both in high school and I don't have a problem, fortunately. They hang out with overachievers and the peer-pressure is to perform.

I didn't have that support group, I kind of hung out with the opposite end of the bell curve. Dunno why, I just did.

Unfortunately, you can't pick your kid's friends. You can set the example of a good work ethic, try to explain cause/effect, and hope for the best.

I concur with some other advice - talk to the teachers. My oldest daughter has taken on a pretty heavy class load and has chosen to lighten the load by occasionally ( I hate to say slacking off ) settling for less than she is capable of. My experience is the teachers will go the extra mile as long as you show you are trying. Your son will find out, too. Maybe that'll have some effect as well.

edit - I went back and re-read one of your posts. Sounds like it's a little different situation than I thought. Doesn't seem like he's running with the wrong crowd, so much as a time management and focus issue. Still think it's a good idea for a sit-down with the teachers.
 
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Wow .. reading all this .. I feel blessed.

My daughter is 19 now, in her first year of college. She finished HS
with a GPA of 4+. And is on a full ride scholarship. All thru school I kept waiting for her to weird out. Never happened. She's always been a joy to have around.

I don't know if there's a secret to it. I do know that for her first few
years her mother was going to school nites and weekends so my daughter
and I spent lots of time together. While I was always firm in guiding her
I always treated her with respect, and she grew up knowing that her
opinion mattered. We talked about stuff a lot. There was never that "I
command .. you do" type of thing.

Even when her mother and I divorced 10 yrs ago we kept things respectful
and continued to work together closely on all things concerning my daughter.
She still spent lots of time with me. Her step dad treats her like his own
and does everything he can for her. He's a super guy.

It's harder now to get time together since she works and goes to college ..
but we still work in lunch or dinner or shopping.

The keys to all this as near as I can see: your time and your respect. From day one.

RT
 
Like Lance and others...we put it off 'til the last minute because we can. It can be stressful when you have doubts and think you've misjudged it and might not make it...but you make it every time. Not only do you get away with it, you often get excellent results and kudos.

Experience is the best teacher. You do it because you can.

I've never changed. I still do it at the last minute especially if doesn't look to be fun. New stuff is fun. The old stuff you've done before isn't and can wait.
 
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and (if its any consolation) there is some development of which you have no control over whatsoever.
I am friends with a couple with several children. They treated them all equally with discipline and love, fairness and firmness. All of them turned out fantastic. One is a black sheep that never fit in and is serving life in the pen for murder.
 
We are blessed with three teenagers in high school. Two are knocking the cover off the ball, the middle one is pretty much as you describe. His ambition is to grow up to be a "boy toy". We are fortunate in as much as the school gives "effort" marks in addition to grades. As parents we've made it clear that our expectations are that the kid will work to the best of his ability. If he's doing anything less than superbly in grades, he'd bloody well better be getting "excellent" effort marks or there would be trouble. And there has been - we've found a variety of penalties. Although we're not out of the woods yet, we've seen progress.

YMMV of course. As you can tell from the wide variety of responses every kid is different. According to the kids, every parent is, too (though I keep telling them we all got the same Parent's Manual.)

Best wishes,
Joe
 
Like Lance and others...we put it off 'til the last minute because we can. It can be stressful when you have doubts and think you've misjudged it and might not make it...but you make it every time. Not only do you get away with it, you often get excellent results and kudos.

Experience is the best teacher. You do it because you can.

I've never changed. I still do it at the minute. Especially if doesn't look to be fun. New stuff is fun. The old stuff you've done before isn't and can wait.

My best work has come at 3:30AM after 18 hours straight awake and a 6:00AM conference call with three countries. It's sad, actually, because I cannot do my best until the pressure is turned on.

The problem is, every time you push the envelope, you sharpen the crease and risk destroying the fold all together... that little birdie keeps chirping in the back of my mind, "Are you going too far?"

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Issues with raising kids has been around for ever. It took me a while to grow up and learn some priorities. Now, I'm so conservative I make my mom seem like a socialist.

I think the biggest enemy parents face these days is the pop culture and the government school that perpetuates the problem. MTV and so much more provides competition to the values a parent trys to teach. A lot of kids are convinced by some means or another they can find the simple path to success, be it an NBA career, rap, modeling or some other distant dream. If you're not able to put a kid in a private school, all you can do is take severe control otherwise and oversee all actions to have an effect.

I wish ya the best with him.
 
Teenagers are the reason animals sometime eat their young. Sigh.
 
How many of us "negotiated" with our parents? I am guessing not many.
We got Red Pen marks on our papers and paid the price for them at home.
At my fathers house, it was/still is, you live under my roof you live by my rules!!
His rules included that you WILL do your school work, if you ever plan to go out with your friends.

Sounds like my Dad. 6'3", 235lbs, 32" bicepts, played HS football and college basketball for Vanderbuilt. His word was law, period. I didn't f*ck with him, none of my brothers f*ucked with him, and all of our HS friends called him sir and watched their step. To do otherwise was unpalatable.

Heavyhanded? Yes, but he has four very productive sons.
 
His brain is rewiring. Give it time. I was a mess at 12 (it was tough being taller than everyone else in the school except maybe a couple of the male teachers.) Whatever you do, though, don't negotiate. Your word is law, and that's OK. He'll grow out of it, I'm betting.

Judy
 
Like Lance and others...we put it off 'til the last minute because we can. It can be stressful when you have doubts and think you've misjudged it and might not make it...but you make it every time. Not only do you get away with it, you often get excellent results and kudos.

Experience is the best teacher. You do it because you can.

I've never changed. I still do it at the last minute especially if doesn't look to be fun. New stuff is fun. The old stuff you've done before isn't and can wait.

Everybody keeps preaching the same thing here except a few. And Mike summed it up nicely here:

"You do it because you can."

I make no claims on parenting skills nor will I tell anyone how to raise their kids (especially if they ask ;) ). But time management is my big, big weakness. And this seems like a time management/priority management issue, not a "kid" problem.

My solution for ME: get hooked on a calendar system and project management mentality. Everything, regardless of how mundane, has a plan. Most of the time, it's in my head. But scheduling out a homework assignment, time to watch TV, enjoy a book, go to a friend's house, etc., goes on a calendar. If it's something that has a due date, it's on the calendar the moment I know it (I use a phone PDA). If it's spur of the moment AND I have nothing scheduled, I add it afterward or during the event. Later, I get a chance to review my calendar and see where I'm spending my time.

No 12-year old is going to do this, of course. But getting him used to a calendar and simple time management may be all it takes. Make it part of the day, probably at the end. Sit down and go over any new assignments. When are they due? How long will they take? When is he free? Then mark the calendar. Don't take big chunks of time. An hour or two, here and there. Pretty soon, he'll start figuring out that he can still do fun stuff and get his work done with no stress (or less anyway) by managing his time.

Good luck, Ken. If I had experienced this when I was his age, I'd be much farther ahead today (and I'm really not doing too bad as it is).

BA, Procrastinator Extraordinaire
 
When my son was that age I still had my construction business. I would just take him into work and make him dig footers or something similar. Every now and then I would make a comment like "if you don't get a good college education that's the type of work you'll be doing for the rest of your life".

After a few months of that there was never any doubt that his grades would be good enough to get into the school of his choice.
 
My son turned 15 on Sunday. He is on the High Honor Roll at school. A lot of this depends on the kid.
Meanwhile...we go to church every Sunday. I do not have all the answers, but I know someone who does.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
My son turned 15 on Sunday. He is on the High Honor Roll at school. A lot of this depends on the kid.
Meanwhile...we go to church every Sunday. I do not have all the answers, but I know someone who does.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
During a Fox News interview with Harold Ford before the election, he was saying he was brought up in church "the old fashioned way".... "I was forced to go."
 
When my son was that age I still had my construction business. I would just take him into work and make him dig footers or something similar. Every now and then I would make a comment like "if you don't get a good college education that's the type of work you'll be doing for the rest of your life".

After a few months of that there was never any doubt that his grades would be good enough to get into the school of his choice.


My dad's a contractor. I spent 10 summers of my life doing that stuff, as well as roofing work, pouring 'crete and other lovely things. After you spend a Christmas break stuffing insulation under the floor of an old house with a very low crawl space, in sub zero weather, you quickly learn the value of good grades and post high school education!

On the plus side, I can do alot of my own home repairs, and I've never been afraid to get up on a roof to do a little patching.

We don't make kids work enough these days, and we give them too much without asking for enough effort in return. We treat them too much like kids and not enough like young people who are going to have to be productive members of society some day. Kids have to have some fun, but they do also need to recognize that they are members of a society, which will have expectations for them someday (although god knows those expectations seem to be ever lowering).

Say a little prayer for my 7 YO daughter! LOL!

Jim G
 
Update: The science project that prompted this angst-fest was "The effect of upper camber on airfoil lift," which involved carving wings from balsa and testing them in a homemade wind tunnel. Due date has come and gone. He was up until 2 am the day it was due finishing it up, and sleep-walked through his presentation. The presentation still got him 82/85 and his research report earned 100/100, netting him a 98 percent.

How DO these kids do it?
 
Ken you have to show them the wrong side of town. Really. They then have to WANT to accomplish "NOT THAT!" on their own.

BTDT.
 
Update: The science project that prompted this angst-fest was "The effect of upper camber on airfoil lift," which involved carving wings from balsa and testing them in a homemade wind tunnel. Due date has come and gone. He was up until 2 am the day it was due finishing it up, and sleep-walked through his presentation. The presentation still got him 82/85 and his research report earned 100/100, netting him a 98 percent.

How DO these kids do it?

Congrats to him on the accomplishment!

And to answer your question (as one who did it himself for decades): he's a natural. It's not really "lazy" or "inability". It's more of a "I'll bet I can find something more interesting to do" type of thought.

Part of MY personal issue was that I already figured it out and didn't really want to go through the boring, mindless routine of writing it out or presenting it. I KNOW it already, just give me my darn grade!!!

I like William's whiteboard idea. Put it in a "family" area and it would be more of a family involvement/project kinda thing.

Sadly, this won't change unless it's a serious hit in the grades or reward system. He has just reinforced the idea that waiting is okay. He'll forget about the stress in a few days but remember the reward. BTDT.
 
When our son started that stuff we started linking everything to his grades, then as an added bonus we offered bonuses based on semester grades, $xx for an A and down the line.

My mother tried to make that deal with me, only it was all or nothing: $500 for straight A's for a semester. I knew I was never going to attain that goal so I didn't even try.

It wasn't that I couldn't attain the goal, it was more that I really didn't give a crap about things like Composition.

A little additional background: He goes to a full-time gifted magnet school that feeds directly into a couple of full-time gifted high schools that are ranked among the 10 best high schools in the country.

That's a plus. Hopefully he's getting some good challenges then, and it sounds like the project is something really cool for a 12-yo to be doing! It should also remove the stigma of being smart, since those around him are smart as well.

The problem is that he procrastinated and procrastinated, and now he's frantically trying to finish the project and doesn't have time to study for the 9-week exams he has tomorrow.

Oh man, that is SO me. And Mike is right on about that.

When my son was that age I still had my construction business. I would just take him into work and make him dig footers or something similar. Every now and then I would make a comment like "if you don't get a good college education that's the type of work you'll be doing for the rest of your life".

I remember someone else posting something about that on the old AOPA board after their daughter had skipped school. She was made to go to Dad's office and spend the entire day cleaning, with a similar comment at the end. Gotta make sure that they know why you did it though - Love. That's the tough part. As much as something like this would have probably helped me, I'm guessing it would have made me mad enough to go the opposite direction without that last ingredient. I had major power struggles with my mother throughout my teen years.

Update: The science project that prompted this angst-fest was "The effect of upper camber on airfoil lift," which involved carving wings from balsa and testing them in a homemade wind tunnel. Due date has come and gone. He was up until 2 am the day it was due finishing it up, and sleep-walked through his presentation. The presentation still got him 82/85 and his research report earned 100/100, netting him a 98 percent.

How DO these kids do it?

Well, ya know... That's pretty good. I didn't really care what my GPA was. C's were plenty good for me. Most teachers graded 50% tests, 25% quizzes, 25% homework for the quarter, and semester grades were 40% each quarter and 20% final exam. I was really good at tests and quizzes, so I never did any homework for the most part because I knew if I aced the tests and quizzes, I'd still get a C even if my homework grade was a 0.

Teachers make a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference. I was more of a math and science kid, but I even managed some bad grades there. However, I still remember who the good teachers were. We had some great science teachers, especially the physics ones. (I remember sitting in Biology class one day when suddenly Mr. Leutschwager, a physics teacher, came floating down the hallway on a homemade hovercraft. :goofy:) The subjects I really didn't like were the English and Social Studies stuff. However, I really enjoyed Creative Writing and Psychology, solely because the teachers had the gift of finding ways to inspire me, which was a tough thing to do back then. Long story short, see if you can involve some teachers too.

Looking through the thread, there's a lot of good ideas that certainly would have worked better on me. (My mother was an all-stick-and-no-carrot type, and what few carrots she ever offered were too long-term for me to ever be interested.) DO negotiate, but do it beforehand - Come up with a joint contract, and let him decide the appropriate rewards and punishments (Yes, you do have to approve, but you'd be surprised what you might come up with here if you just let the kid decide...) DON'T rule with an iron fist, that'll simply separate you and make him more rebellious. DO spend one-on-one time with him, doing fun and interesting things, regardless of anything else - He's got to see that you love him no matter what. DO encourage him to participate in sports, band, and other extracurricular activities, which may or may not be school-sanctioned. DO encourage him to get a job - Mowing lawns in the summer and/or paper route are probably the only options at his age.

What turned me around was marching in the Madison Scouts drum and bugle corps. I had never done anything that difficult or rewarding in my life. It gave me some independence, being on tour all summer long. It also forced me to get my **** together. I learned how to manage time (OK I have two hours, and in that time I need to eat, shower, pack my stuff, polish my horn and shoes, get my under-the-bus stuff outside with 1/2 hr left, everything else on the bus with 15 minutes left, help clean the school, and get into uniform.) I did my own laundry. I was pushed for the first time not by my parents, but by my peers. The staff made me do things I didn't even think I was capable of when I started, and that opened up new doors in my mind. (Hey, I really CAN do anything I set my mind to!)

The first year completely kicked my butt, but it was the most amazing experience I'd ever had. (Who else was on national television at age 16? :D) I ended up going back, for a total of six seasons, every year until I "aged out." I was able to grow into leadership positions, and help other younger guys grow as I had. I played in quite a few NFL stadiums. I played a solo in front of 35,000 people. I was suddenly a "rock star" and so I learned a few things about girls too. :yes: I became a much better person in every imaginable way. When I returned from tour, my parents saw a whole different person than when I left.

Every person is shaped by different things - Somehow, you need to help him find his. Good luck.

signed,

a former royal-pain-in-the-ass teen.
 
Is this behavior by your son a sudden change, or did it ratchet up to this over time?

I don't have children. I have, however, been working with at-risk teens for years (which partly explains why I don't have children, I guess) in a volunteer setting. After the first few thousand hours you feel like you've heard and seen one of every sort of bad behavior, and week in and week out you still end up being surprised. Being that I only see the kids once a week, it's easier for me to spot the upward and downward changes in behavior, and I've sort of learned that when I see a drastic change, in either direction, it's time to have the professional staff review the case.

I'm not suggesting your son needs to talk to anyone, just that in my limited experience, drastic changes in behavior usually are a symptom and not a cause.

I'm a big fan of 'tough love' for the parents, provided they are both on the same page and provided they can fulfill that commitment without caving. Trust me, teens will play chicken over control issues with their parents. A struggling parent's ace up the sleeve is that they are providing for his needs and his wants, some of which can drop off the radar for a while.
 
Ken, you are following the very poor choice made by the kid taking flying lessons over on the Red Board, I believe. I don't feel too sorry for you now. The parents of THAT particular teenager though...

Jim G
 
Ken, you are following the very poor choice made by the kid taking flying lessons over on the Red Board, I believe. I don't feel too sorry for you now. The parents of THAT particular teenager though...

Jim G
Yeah, I am counting my blessings at the moment!
 
Ken, you are following the very poor choice made by the kid taking flying lessons over on the Red Board, I believe. I don't feel too sorry for you now. The parents of THAT particular teenager though...

Jim G
15 and homeschooled... you know usually I FAVOR homeschooling, but that result is *scary*
 
He's still posting as of late last night. Unfortunately, I know his CFI, he's been training at my home-drome. A real shame, he's, at a minimum, set himself back a couple of years if he's honest about the pot. Or he's set himself up for failure at some point in the future otherwise.

Sigh.

Jim G
 
He's still posting as of late last night. Unfortunately, I know his CFI, he's been training at my home-drome. A real shame, he's, at a minimum, set himself back a couple of years if he's honest about the pot. Or he's set himself up for failure at some point in the future otherwise.

Sigh.

Jim G

Man, what am I missing? I haven't used the red board in over a year and now I'm thinking of going back...

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Man, what am I missing? I haven't used the red board in over a year and now I'm thinking of going back...

Cheers,

-Andrew

The short story: 15 year old asked whether there was a drug test for a class 3. (He'd smoked pot last summer.) Public profile included name and city. Typed like it was a teen chat room. Attitude to match.

He was cut to ribbons.
 
The short story: 15 year old asked whether there was a drug test for a class 3. (He'd smoked pot last summer.) Public profile included name and city. Typed like it was a teen chat room. Attitude to match.

He was cut to ribbons.
NO iwaiesnt cut to noribbiions liek ya buee sayyying . idiit pieliots.
:D

It's hard spelling as badly as he did!
 
Update: The science project that prompted this angst-fest was "The effect of upper camber on airfoil lift," which involved carving wings from balsa and testing them in a homemade wind tunnel. Due date has come and gone. He was up until 2 am the day it was due finishing it up, and sleep-walked through his presentation. The presentation still got him 82/85 and his research report earned 100/100, netting him a 98 percent.

How DO these kids do it?

Tol ja!

The kid's gonna go far!
 
The short story: 15 year old asked whether there was a drug test for a class 3. (He'd smoked pot last summer.) Public profile included name and city. Typed like it was a teen chat room. Attitude to match.

He was cut to ribbons.

Insane, not really thinking...

<DrBruce>Sigh....</DrBruce>

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
A PM I recently received on the Red Board:

Best,

Dave
==============================================

elo stupid question but your name got my eye are u in the mob? later jus the whole real esate occupation __________________
Virtual Airline Captain PACIFIC WEST AIRWAYS
Student Pilot
 
A PM I recently received on the Red Board:

Best,

Dave
==============================================

elo stupid question but your name got my eye are u in the mob? later jus the whole real esate occupation __________________
Virtual Airline Captain PACIFIC WEST AIRWAYS
Student Pilot

You've got to wonder about the thought process behind some of these kids who write like this. Most of them are capable of writing better. Not only that--Why do they ask such stupid questions? They are either just trying to be funny or are they actually that under matured?

At 15 I owned the 3rd largest hosting provider for a community based chat system with enough of a client base to keep me and three several other people busy. The nice thing was I never paid any of those people a dime..They thought doing support was fun and begged me to let them do so.

Two years later I saw the market falling apart and the concept of dedicated community based chat software falling to the side for new web based solutions and sold out. Six months after that--the company that bought it pretty much fell apart. I got out at the perfect time and learnt quite a bit.

Of course I didn't really have a life....
 
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