Paints - a 'Primer'

[Let'sgoflying!]

Is there a tutorial available on-line for the more modern paints?

sp.
What is the difference between Urethane and Polyurethane as far as the end-product?
Is Imron or Jet-Glo one or the other?
What is Airtex made of?
Thks

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Is there a tutorial available on-line for the more modern paints?

Back when I did those things I found the best automotive paint application references in my local library. These days I would suggest searching Amazon.com for reference books on automotive paint techniques.

What is the difference between Urethane and Polyurethane as far as the end-product?

None. The only difference is the author's knowledge of chemistry. All "urathane" paints are polyurathane. "Urathane" is the monomer from which the polymeric paint material is derived. It wouldn't work all that well as a paint unless polymerized into a much larger molecule (the "poly-" part of polyurathane).

Is Imron or Jet-Glo one or the other?

Imron is a polyurathane. I don't know about Jet-Glo but I suspect it is, too.

What is Airtex made of?

I thought Airtex was a company.

FWIW, you don't want to mess with any of the isocyanate (or just "cyanate") catalyzed paints unless you have a positive-pressure, full-face, fresh air delivery mask. The paint vapors will kill you. By the time you know you've dosed yourself there is absolutely nothing anyone can do for you other than let Mother Nature decide if you will live or die, and the decision process can be long and agonizing.

 

[Henning]

Is there a tutorial available on-line for the more modern paints?

sp.
What is the difference between Urethane and Polyurethane as far as the end-product?
Is Imron or Jet-Glo one or the other?
What is Airtex made of?
Thks

Modern paints are mostly Linear Polyurethanes. They are tough, they last well and have a very high gloss. They are easier to apply well also. AlumiGrip and AwlGrip from US Paints are my current favorites depending on application. Imron is an Acrylic Urethane I believe. It is very tough as well and very heat resistant. It is more difficult to apply as well as being quite toxic. As to Jet Glow, I'm unaware.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

It is very tough as well and very heat resistant. It is more difficult to apply as well as being quite toxic.

AFAIK, with all of the polyurathanes it isn't the polyurathane that is toxic, it is the cross-linking catalyst. I believe they all use isocyanate or derivatives, YMMV, read the MSDS, but without a fresh air mask I would be willing to spray the paint alone, but not the catalyzer mixed paint.

Your local chemist.

 

[Tom-D]

Is there a tutorial available on-line for the more modern paints?

sp.
What is the difference between Urethane and Polyurethane as far as the end-product?
Is Imron or Jet-Glo one or the other?
What is Airtex made of?
Thks

Dave are you thinking Air-tech? like in the fabric covering system? if so I'll look on the can tonight when I am in the hangar.

It's none of the above..

 

[Henning]

AFAIK, with all of the polyurathanes it isn't the polyurathane that is toxic, it is the cross-linking catalyst. I believe they all use isocyanate or derivatives, YMMV, read the MSDS, but without a fresh air mask I would be willing to spray the paint alone, but not the catalyzer mixed paint.

Your local chemist.

Here's a link to the MSDS sheet for Awl Grip 3010, the catalyst used as 20-33% of the sprayed material. It is a Diisocyanate/polyisocyanate, the read is interesting:
http://www.awlgrip.com/Datasheets/awlgrip_msds/G3010AWL.pdf

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Dave are you thinking Air-tech?

yeah I think thats it.... its a newer one.

This all came about because I want to have the local wizard put a fresh coat on the wings and another friend says "don't use imron, use urathane with a flex agent"

But Ed et al says Urathane = Polyurathane
and Imron is both.... but I cannot find a flex agent for Imron... Dupont doesn't list one.

Well the Viking experts say Imron is fine so maybe I'll just do that. Can't let it all happen without learning all about it I guess.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

Don't know if you're planning on painting yourself, but if you're dealing with a shop, you're probably best off just having them use whatever they are most comfortable/experienced using.


Jeff

 

[poadeleted20]

Jet Glo and Acry Glo are polyurethane aircraft paints developed by PPG but more recently bought out by Sherwin Williams. See http://www2.sherwin-williams.com/aerospace/ for details.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Thks Ron, I agree Jeff. They are great at painting Imron but are asking what the 'Viking Experts think'. I will defer to their judgement.

 

[poadeleted20]

They are great at painting Imron but are asking what the 'Viking Experts think'. I will defer to their judgement.

Anyone who can paint DuPont's Imron can paint any other polyurethane paint. It's the same as the difference between choosing Sherwin Williams versus Glidden versus Dutch Boy for your house -- it's more a matter of the type of paint than the brand name. You buy one latex with an all-acrylic binder, it's pretty much the same as another latex with an all-acrylic binder, all other things being equal (% solids, pigment material, etc.).

The only real issue is which paint supplier your shop works with, because that's where they'll get the best deal on price based on quantity buys and exclusivity. That's why if I get my plane painted at Reese, it's going to be Jet/Acry Glo -- because that's what Ken buys. I'm sure if I wanted, he'd use Imron, but the cost would be higher and the result would not be different. If I take it to your shop, I get a DuPont paint, because that's who they work with. The key is getting the right type of paint, i.e., a high-quality polyurethane rather than a cheap enamel.

 

[Henning]

Anyone who can paint DuPont's Imron can paint any other polyurethane paint. It's the same as the difference between choosing Sherwin Williams versus Glidden versus Dutch Boy for your house -- it's more a matter of the type of paint than the brand name. You buy one latex with an all-acrylic binder, it's pretty much the same as another latex with an all-acrylic binder, all other things being equal (% solids, pigment material, etc.).

The only real issue is which paint supplier your shop works with, because that's where they'll get the best deal on price based on quantity buys and exclusivity. That's why if I get my plane painted at Reese, it's going to be Jet/Acry Glo -- because that's what Ken buys. I'm sure if I wanted, he'd use Imron, but the cost would be higher and the result would not be different. If I take it to your shop, I get a DuPont paint, because that's who they work with. The key is getting the right type of paint, i.e., a high-quality polyurethane rather than a cheap enamel.

What you write holds true for MOST of these materials being applicated by a spray rig (they are not exactly the same, there is a difference in how you set your rig up between Imron & Awlgrip, but a pro just goes by the spray pattern and the first coat is just a flash anyway), this does not hold true when repairing spots and areas, there, material line and brand support really come in. US Paints makes a slow brushing thinner for their line of finish products. I can paint small areas with a brush, or large areas rolling and tipping and have it come out like glass with the only sanding required at the blends. Imron doesn't work well with a brush but can be done with a foamy, but you can only do very small areas before the foamy disolves. They design their product and line for more diverse usage.

 

[Tom-D]

yeah I think thats it.... its a newer one.

Well the Viking experts say Imron is fine so maybe I'll just do that. Can't let it all happen without learning all about it I guess.

Your wings are wood skin covered with fabric, their skin does not flex like a true fabric skin. So the plastisizer is not required. Imron will work, but use:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/randolphcoatings.html

What ever you deside to use TEST it in a small area first for compatablity. The last thing you want to do is to pull good fabric off because you ruined it trying to make it look good.

Are you positive you don't have DOPE?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Your wings are wood skin covered with fabric, their skin does not flex like a true fabric skin. So the plastisizer is not required.
Are you positive you don't have DOPE?

Ah yes but the ailerons/flaps! (open structure)

What ever you deside to use TEST it in a small area first for compatablity. The last thing you want to do is to pull good fabric off because you ruined it trying to make it look good.

Yes, it is Stits/Polyfiber. Logbooks say so. I have repaired it. I have tested it. The fuselage is the same and was done the same way (imron). Thanks Tom.

 

[Tom-D]

Ah yes but the ailerons/flaps! (open structure)


Yes, it is Stits/Polyfiber. Logbooks say so. I have repaired it. I have tested it. The fuselage is the same and was done the same way (imron). Thanks Tom.

If it is all Imron, don't change. You will have two chemical bases that age at different rates and cracking will occur. but it still may.

 

[poadeleted20]

...this does not hold true when repairing spots and areas, there, material line and brand support really come in.

No argument -- for touchups and repairs, use the exact same stuff with which your plane was painted. But when deciding what to use for an all-over strip and respray, I would be more concerned with the skill and expertise of the shop than I would about the particular brand of paint they use. In that sense, it makes little difference whether it's Imron, AcryGlo, Alumigrip, or whatever high quality polyurethane they are used to using -- at that point, I won't argue about brand names.