Pa-what?

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
24,252
Location
UQACY, WI
Display Name

Display name:
iMooniac
OK, I wish I had a list of all the Piper PA-xx airplanes so I knew what was what.

So, here goes. Add on whatever you know:

PA-24: The Comanche, AKA the "Poor Man's Bonanza." Arrived circa 1960 as a 180hp carbureted four-seat retract. Shortly thereafter it was joined by a 250hp model, and later 260hp and 400hp fuel-injected models. They didn't stop there, though... They hung two fans on a Comanche and it became the PA-30 Twin Comanche. After a flood at Piper's Lock Haven, PA plant in 1972, Piper decided not to re-tool and production was stopped.

PA-28: The Cherokee series we all know and love. Tri-gear, from 140 to 235 hp. Includes both hershey-bar wings and tapered wings, fixed and retractable (Arrow) landing gear. Cherokee 140, 160, 180, 235, Challenger, Pathfinder, Warrior, Archer, Arrow, and Dakota.

PA-30 and PA-39: Twin Comanche, aka the "Twinkie" or "Poor Man's Baron". One of the most efficient light twins and a very popular multi-engine trainer in the late 60's and 70's, the Twinkie came with a pair of 160hp injected IO-320 engines. The "A" model had four seats. The PA-30B added a third side window and a pair of seats in the luggage compartment. The "C" model became the PA-39, which had counter-rotating props. B and C models were available turbocharged as well, and the turbo models included built-in oxygen and tip tanks. A fair number were later equipped with "Miller mods" which included a longer nose with baggage compartment, new engine nacelles with baggage, a dorsal fin for improved single-engine handling, and 200hp engines. The Miller Twin Comanches still are in high demand, as the mods are no longer available. After a flood at Piper's Lock Haven, PA plant in 1972, Piper decided not to re-tool and production was stopped.

PA-32: The stretch Cherokees, or the single Senecas? Piper's metal six-seat singles. Again, both fixed and retracts, both hershey and tapered wings fit in here: Cherokee Six, Lance, Saratoga, 6X and 6XT.

PA-34: The "Twin Lance" AKA the Seneca. I, II, III, IV, and V variants. I is normally aspirated, II through V are turbo. Six seats.

PA-44: The Seminole, a somewhat doggy four-seat twin that's used almost exclusively for multi-engine training.
 
What about the good ol' PA-22, the short wing Pipers? Colt, Tri-Pacer, etc?
 
SkyHog said:
What about the good ol' PA-22, the short wing Pipers? Colt, Tri-Pacer, etc?

OK, that's a good start... What else do you know about 'em? (I'm sure Barb will chip in here too)
 
A few more:

PA-12 Super Cruiser ??????
PA-18 Super Cub. Looks like a J-3 but has a slightly larger cabin, a fully enclosed cowl (as opposed to the J-3's exposed cylinder heads), wing flaps, and a more powerful (125hp?) engine.
PA-33 Pressurized Comanche. This was a single airframe built in 1967. It was never mass-produced and the only copy was destroyed in a taxi accident. :(
 
PA-6 Skysedan: Don't know anything about them, I just saw a picture at Lock Haven
PA-11: I think it may be called a super cruiser also but not sure.
PA-12 Super Cruiser: One front seat and a small two seat in back
PA-14 Family Cruiser: Don't known anything about this one also.
PA-15 and PA-17 Vagabond: Two side by side seats, the 17 has some upgrades, I think an electrical system is one of them.
PA-16 Clipper: 4 seat version of the vagabond, no flaps, They only built them for one year because Pan Am took offense to their use of the name "Clipper", figured it was a copyright infringement on their seaplane fleet.
PA-18 Super Cub
PA-20 Pacer: up graded Clipper with flaps.
PA-22 Tripacer: nose wheel version of the Pacer.
PA-22/20 Tripacer converted back to the tailwheel style
PA-22-108 Colt: Two seat Tripacer with no flaps, and 108hp engine

Barb
 

Attachments

  • Piper Roll Call.jpg
    Piper Roll Call.jpg
    167.3 KB · Views: 22
http://www.aerofiles.com/_piper.html

My favorite, the PA-48 ENFORCER:

piper-pa48.jpg


flyingcheesehead said:
OK, I wish I had a list of all the Piper PA-xx airplanes so I knew what was what.

...
 
If you look at the serial numbers, and the fundamental differences, you'll see that the Comanche 400 is not really a PA-24 at all, but rather, a PA-26.
 
Although it bears a strong resemblance to the Mustang, and I suspect the developers felt it would reduce the testing requirements relying on a pre-existing design, it is basically a new aircraft.

"By the time the PA-48s were completed, they shared less than ten percent of their structure with the P-51."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-48_Enforcer

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/pa_48_enforcer/pa_48_enforcer.htm




Ghery said:
What did they do? Take a P-51 and hang a turboprop and tip tanks on it?
 
Steve said:
My favorite, the PA-48 ENFORCER:

Wow... That is one bad-ass airplane!

Thanks to this thread, I've been learning a lot more about pipers the last couple of days.

Didja know... A Piper Comanche with the back seats removed for ferry tanks was flown non-stop from Casablanca, Morocco to Los Angeles? It took off two thousand pounds over gross. That's a tough airplane!

Didja know... There was a "Cherokee Six trimotor" used as proof-of-concept for the Seneca? It was a PA32-260 with a pair of O-360's on the wings. That's a lotta horsepower!

Didja know... Piper built a composite airplane in 1962?!? Unfortunately, the PA-29 Papoose used a paper honeycomb stabilizing material which was vulnerable to humidity, and the project was scrapped.

I'm compiling the info I'm learning here into a page on AvWiki.

OBTW, The Piper page Steve referenced calls the PA-12 the Super Cruiser, and the PA-11 the Cub Special. Is the other thread here incorrect?
 
PA-12 is Super Cruiser. PA-11 is Cub Special.
 
jangell said:
PA-12 is Super Cruiser. PA-11 is Cub Special.

Yeah, I figgered that one out. The other thread is correct, I just have too many PA-numbers floating around my head!

I've spent all day researching the various Pipers and put up a ton of info on AvWiki as well as added to the dismal PA-32 pages on Wikipedia.

I've learned a ton in the process. And yes, I need a life.

I think my trusty N8483F is sending me on a guilt trip for saying Piper was dead the other day. :yes: However, all of this work I've done today has really led me to appreciate the Comanche series that much more. What great airplanes.
 
Don't forget the bigger ones...PA 31 Navajo & Navajo Chieftan also PA31T Cheyenne.

Len
 
Max Conrad set several records for Piper. Also left an Aztec at the South Pole.

http://www.maxconrad.com/


flyingcheesehead said:
.
Didja know... A Piper Comanche with the back seats removed for ferry tanks was flown non-stop from Casablanca, Morocco to Los Angeles? It took off two thousand pounds over gross. That's a tough airplane!
 
Nobody has yet mentioned the PA-23 series: the Apache (PA-23-150, -160 and -235) and Aztec (PA-23-250). Aztec serial numbers begin with "27" instead of "23," but they are certificated as PA-23-250.

There was also the PA-40 Arapaho, an improved version of the Twin Comanche, that never made it to production. Improved, that is, except in looks. In my estimation the Arapaho's modifications ruined the Twin Comanche's sleek design.

-- Pilawt
 
Pilawt said:
There was also the PA-40 Arapaho, an improved version of the Twin Comanche, that never made it to production. Improved, that is, except in looks. In my estimation the Arapaho's modifications ruined the Twin Comanche's sleek design.

Yeah, those side fins are just weird. Apparently the Arapaho had some problems too, they had some problems with it wanting to enter a flat spin in some areas of flight. Clay Lacy was one of the test pilots, and he bailed out of one of the three PA40's that was built after it went into an unrecoverable flat spin. Piper scrapped another, and the third is still supposedly in one piece somewhere but it's been deregistered.

Now, all that's left is a number of Twinkies that have been upgraded with the "Arapaho windscreen."
 
What about the PA-38 Traumahawk?

Nice looking plane. Bad rep. I don't want/need a 2 seater, but a nice little trainer from what I hear.
 
flyersfan31 said:
What about the PA-38 Traumahawk?

Nice looking plane. Bad rep. I don't want/need a 2 seater, but a nice little trainer from what I hear.

I only have a few hours in them but I don't care for 'em.

If someone wants a 2 seat airplane with a nose gear, that is fun to fly and provides a bit of a challenge to fly well even after you've got some hours in your log book I would highly recommend (drum roll please) a Grumman.

Len
 
Back
Top