Owners, Recording VOR Checks, Other Routing Operational Records

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by kontiki, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

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    Started out wondering where or how folks record VOR checks. Seems like you wouldn't want to be filling logbooks with that stuff.

    That kind of leads me to ask if and how other owners record daily flights, hours, times, oil use etc.
     
  2. MarkZ

    MarkZ En-Route

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    Our flying club has a logbook with a sheet for VOR checks. We log our time in aircraft, fuel, oil, and if it was training or XC.
     
  3. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Separate notebook in my plane to record VOR checks, GPS database replacement, and (not required by FAA) tach time/fuel use/oil added per trip/fill-up. The fuel & oil serves as a cross-check to the totalizer.
     
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  4. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Seen a few different ways of doing it.

    I created in excel a log page and I put that page in a binder with other required/useful documents in the airplane.
     
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  5. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Our flying club wrote the VOR check on the back of the book of rental tickets in the plane.

    Now, while it's probably not strictly in the rules, I use the SL/30 GNS480 online record.
     
  6. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Me, too -- little pocket-sized notebook that was a freebie from Atlantic Aviation. Stays in the glove box in the plane.

    Note that there is no longer a requirement to log GPS database updates if it is:
    ...and it appears the FAA does not consider either a laptop computer or a Jepp Skybound device to be "special equipment".
     
  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Notebook. Pen. ;)
     
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  8. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Separate notebook ,pocket size . Keep it in the plane.
     
  9. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    I have a little spiral notebook that I use for this, and keep it in the map box between the seats. From one end I fill it with VOR checks, the other end I use for copying IFR clearances (one thing I really HATE doing on the iPad). When they meet at the middle, I'll buy a new one.
     
  10. spinfire

    spinfire Pre-takeoff checklist

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  11. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Along the same lines, I think I read here a while back that it's no longer required to log GPS database updates, part of a reworking of the regs governing "preventative maintenance". Am I dreaming or is this true?

    I don't mean this to be a threadjack (and hope it won't be), just a simple question.
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    How long must a owner keep the avionics log entries.?
     
  13. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    Separate sheet in the 3 ring binder in each club plane that hold W&B, registration, radio license, and other documents. Nothing special.
     
  14. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

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    correct.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  15. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

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    Thanks All, I think were all on the same page. The form will go fight into my "Operating Log," it has the POH, W&B, Tach Times, dest, date, engine oil. I have a on board second binder for all the STC supplements and operator guides required by 337s or common sense.
     
  16. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    Until they are repeated. Most log entries shall be retained until the work is repeated or superseded by other work or for 1 year after the work is performed These include:



    The records specified below shall be retained and transferred with the aircraft at the time the aircraft is sold:

    In the case of the operational check of the VOR system as required by 91.171
    Since an operational check is not maintenance or preventive maintenance, there isn't specific guidance on how long it must be kept, but I keep mine in a small notebook as a CYA, until I tear it out for a new page. I doubt one would need to keep the record once a new 30 day entry is made or more than 30 days had expired as it would not be useful for IFR flight if a VOR was required for the flight.

    If it was performed by an avionics shop, it would be maintenance and the record would have to be kept until the work was repeated or superseded or the one year lapsed.
     
  17. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    When we still had to record GPS updates, I had a nice spreadsheet that i kept on a clipboard with my flight plan, approach plates and taxi diagrams. It had VOR checks on one side, GPS updates on the other.

    Anymore, I just log them in my pilot logbook along with the flight that the check was completed on. And, yes <<<the horrors>>> I always carry my logbook with me.

    The verbiage I use:

    VOR checked at__________ tuned to____________ brg err to__________ from_________
    By:_________________________ PPC#________________

    ..
     
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Correct answer.

    So, if they are repeated every 30 days why keep a book full of old entries? there is no requirement to keep the entry in the aircraft.
    Plus as frequently as avionics fail wouldn't you do one prior to flying IFR?
    When was the last time any one of authority asked to see the entry?
     
  19. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    DPEs on check rides.

    Also, San Diego FSDO has asked to see them occasionally on ramp checks.
     
  20. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    So you write it on _______ and hand it to them.
     
  21. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    I scribble the entry on the edge of a sectional.
     
  22. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I've seen it grease penciled on the gauge it's self.
     
  23. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Tom, the reason I keep the whole record in the plane is because it's in the booklet and the booklet has other uses (see earlier post). I'm well aware that expired VOR checks don't need to be kept.

    As far as doing one prior to flying IFR, there is no VOR test facility on the field at my home base, so that would pretty well make IFR departures impossible. I do a comparison check of my two nav heads on nearly every flight I make, and (try to) fly at least once a week, so my required avionics checks are usually very recent. If I had a failure soon after departure, I would of course return to base -- no VOR needed, or even available, for that. I have a WAAS GPS.
     
  24. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    VOR check gets scribbled on a notepad that I write my clearance on. That paper stays in my flight bag until another piece of paper is used to do the same thing.
     
  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Why?
    Could they prove you were flying IFR with no VOR check?
    Where is the requirement to carry the entry in the aircraft?
    When the FAA wants to see maintenance records they must make arrangements for you to bring them to FSDO. I'm sure you could find one by then. :)
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Smart. !
     
  27. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    And that comparison check, as long as the two are close enough (4 degrees IIRC), is all you need. I don't think I've ever used a VOR test facility, but I've been comparing the two VORs on the on-field VOR after engine start since I was a student pilot.
     
  28. tehmightypirate

    tehmightypirate Line Up and Wait

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    Minor off-topic question:

    As an IFR student this is a subject I'm quite inexperienced on, what are the rules regarding VOR checks with certified IFR GPS? Obviously if you're shooting a VOR approach or using the VOR as primary navigation you need to have performed the VOR check.

    But what if you're using your VOR only for your alternate? What if it's only required to identify a fix which you're using GPS in lieu of VOR/DME? What about if the VOR isn't planned to be used at all during your IFR flight?
     
  29. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Which is fine if there is an on-field VOR where you're based, or one that you can receive from the ground. At my home field there isn't, that was the point to what I wrote. I was probably too restrictive in saying "VOR test facility", I meant to say that there's no way to do a routine VOR check before taking off.
     
  30. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    There are no 'rules' about an IFR GPS, only about the VOR receiver.

    http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...de=14:2.0.1.3.10&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.10.2.6.40

    'No person may operate a civil aircraft under IFR using the VOR system of radio navigation unless the VOR equipment of that aircraft'

    So, if you don't use the VOR, you won't need it. If you file an alternate that requires a VOR approach it but then don't use the alternate, you don't need it(I'd not recommend arguing this one with the FAA though, because you'd probably lose on the fact that you filed an alternate you couldn't fly to with the installed equipment). If you use the GPS to identify a waypoint that is also a VOR waypoint you don't need it. If you fly a VOR approach(with no GPS overlay) then you need it. There might be some interesting hair splitting on using an IFR GPS to navigate airways when the airway itself is not in the database like some of the older Garmins, I'll let someone else speak to that.
     
  31. tehmightypirate

    tehmightypirate Line Up and Wait

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    That's pretty much what I expected, that if you needed the VOR for the flight (or planned on needing it) then you need a VOR check. Otherwise, it's not needed.

    I guess my question really boils down to "is the VOR considered inoperative when you haven't performed the VOR check?"
     
  32. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    No, they are usable in VFR flight.

    you could do a check in flight, and certify it when needed.
     
  33. tehmightypirate

    tehmightypirate Line Up and Wait

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    Well, obviously, I was referring to IFR flight specifically.
     
  34. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    You could come afoul of 91.205 if the GPS is not a TSO C145/146 WAAS GPS that is approved for sole means of IFR navigation, even if you never use the VOR during the flight. All TSO C129 and some TSO Ci45/C146 GPS units are only certified as supplemental and require that other means (aka VOR) are available for the flight. Also, even if the WAAS GPS is approved for sole means of IFR navigation, if the only procedure available at your alternate is a VOR procedure, you are still in likely violation of 91.205. Note that the VOR check is not required for the localizer or ILS.
     
  35. tehmightypirate

    tehmightypirate Line Up and Wait

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    Ah hah! And this was exactly why I asked specifically about IFR GPS, I thought you had to have some sort of backup unless it was certified specially. Thanks for the great info, I'll have to read up on this.

    After reading a bit: This is actually extremely relevant to the aircraft I fly. Even though the club plane has a G1000 system it's the older model that does not have a WAAS receiver. Thus, (I assume) it's a TSO C129 model and therefore requires that the VOR be functional as both GPS systems are considered supplemental.

    So, a VOR check must have been logged in the preceding 30 days (and passed) to even use my non-WAAS G1000 in IFR, correct? Because technically both GPS systems are supplemental to the VOR system.

    Man, that's a pain in the butt. Good thing there's a VOT test at the field I depart from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  36. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    Good point, I keep forgetting not everyone is upgraded. I think the rental fleet where I rent from is about 80% sole means certified now for the ones with any useful GPS, mostly 430W units.
     
  37. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My favorite wording in 91.177 is that the test signal has to be used at the airport of INTENDED departure. I don't know if this is to preclude unintentional departures or to keep you from doing VOR checks at pleas you don't ever plan on leaving.
     
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  38. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Trying to keep folks from using the very weak test signal from a *different* airport where they're close enough to barely receive the signal, which may not be reliable that far away.
     
  39. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Instead of making a new thread, figured I’d resurrect an old post to confirm/ask:

    #1- It sounds like I could record my VOR check on a cocktail napkin and be legal?

    #2- I think I can blow my nose in and toss out the old cocktail napkin after 31 days and get a new one, rather than keep it, and it’s fine both regulatorily and from a legal liability standpoint?

    I’m asking in this exaggerated way to help me understand the logging vs record keeping requirements.
     
  40. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    same here. it’s a little spiral notebook. handy to remind me when to change the oil, etc