Owner maintenance

[Tom-D]

just thought you folks would like to see some of the owner repairs I see.

This is a 170 airbox that the owner repaired, I found it during annual inspection..

I love owner maintenance, I make pretty good wages fixing that stuff.

 

[poadeleted20]

Did you also explain to that owner that repairing the air box is not one of the 32 items of preventive maintenance a non-mechanic owner/pilot is permitted to do?

 

[SteveinIndy]

just thought you folks would like to see some of the owner repairs I see.

This is a 170 airbox that the owner repaired, I found it during annual inspection..

I love owner maintenance, I make pretty good wages fixing that stuff.

I often wonder what makes someone think that is satisfactory in terms of quality.

 

[SteveinIndy]

Did you also explain to that owner that repairing the air box is not one of the 32 items of preventive maintenance a non-mechanic owner/pilot is permitted to do?

Isn't there a stipulation about producing your own parts if you can meet the same standard for use only on your own aircraft so long as it is not being used for hire? I seem to recall it being mentioned in an article in one of the aviation magazines a couple of years back.

 

[Tom-D]

Did you also explain to that owner that repairing the air box is not one of the 32 items of preventive maintenance a non-mechanic owner/pilot is permitted to do?

No Ron, I fix what's broke, collect the money, and see him next year. Otherwise he will go to some numbscull who will miss this stuff and get him hurt.

When he works on his aircraft he relieves me of the liability, and no, it isn't difficult to prove who did what.

 

[SteveinIndy]

No Ron, I fix what's broke, collect the money, and see him next year.

When he works on his aircraft he relieves me of the liability, and no, it isn't difficult to prove who did what.

Don't you feel some moral "liability" or compunction to make sure he doesn't do anything that could kill himself or someone else?

 

[kyleb]

Isn't there a stipulation about producing your own parts if you can meet the same standard for use only on your own aircraft so long as it is not being used for hire? I seem to recall it being mentioned in an article in one of the aviation magazines a couple of years back.

Yes. There is an FAA advisory circular which permits "owner produced parts". The gist is that the owner must make it or have it made by others to the factory spec's. The AC number is 21-29.

Here's a synopsis:

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

 

[Tom-D]

Don't you feel some moral "liability" or compunction to make sure he doesn't do anything that could kill himself or someone else?

When he pays the bill he sees the numbers and gets the lecture, but after I sign his log books as airworthy. I have no control over what he does. (until next year)

 

[wabower]

Like what? An affidavit that he won't fly into IMC or run out of gas?

Don't you feel some moral "liability" or compunction to make sure he doesn't do anything that could kill himself or someone else?

 

[SteveinIndy]

Like what? An affidavit that he won't fly into IMC or run out of gas?

I was referring to the maintenance issues. "Hey *insert name of the person of questionable judgment*, you might want to not do X again. *Explain why X is a bad idea"". If you don't point out the specific shortcomings, he won't learn even if he has to pay for a new airbox, etc. For all he knows, his repairs were fine but something else went wrong and he might try it again.

If for nothing else than my own conscience, if I see someone doing something stupid, I say something. The case of the 172 pilot I encountered who was going to take off into freezing rain is a good example. It took his wife overhearing our conversation to nix the flight. In fact, the next time they came through town, I was taken to dinner by them but that's for another time to tell.

Maybe I am a bit unusual in this regard but I was raised to look out for my fellow man and to speak up if I see something that is likely to cause a serious problem. If they tell me to **** off, that's their call but at least I can sleep a little better if something goes wrong.

 

[Tom-D]

Yes. There is an FAA advisory circular which permits "owner produced parts". The gist is that the owner must make it or have it made by others to the factory spec's. The AC number is 21-29.

Here's a synopsis:

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

The biggest thing in that synopsis is, some must return it to service. They are the ones on the hook for the safety of the repair. The safety inspector will not talk to who built the part, they will hold the person responsible for the return to service entry, responsible for the accident.

FAR 43.
43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections performed in accordance with part 91, part 125, § 135.411(a)(1), and § 135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Yes. There is an FAA advisory circular which permits "owner produced parts". The gist is that the owner must make it or have it made by others to the factory spec's. The AC number is 21-29.

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

And the factory specs can be hard to come by. They often won't release drawings for their stuff.

That airbox wasn't repaired to any specs at all.

Dan

 

[Silvaire]

There is a term for this type of work: Pound to Fit, Paint to Match

 

[Geico266]

Yes. There is an FAA advisory circular which permits "owner produced parts". The gist is that the owner must make it or have it made by others to the factory spec's. The AC number is 21-29.

Here's a synopsis:

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

I read it as saying the owner must have participated in the manufacture of the part, along with several other conditions, that certainly were not met in Tom's example.

 

[kyleb]

I read it as saying the owner must have participated in the manufacture of the part, along with several other conditions, that certainly were not met in Tom's example.

Your take is correct, but the question being answered was generic, not specifically related to the kludge Tom found.

 

[PilotAlan]

I read it as saying the owner must have participated in the manufacture of the part, along with several other conditions, that certainly were not met in Tom's example.

The owner can manufacture a replacement part, but that doesn't mean he can install it unless it's a listed preventative maintenance item.
The owner could have an airbox made, but an A&P (maybe an IA, I don't know) would have to install it and sign it off as airworthy.

Right Tom?

 

[Tom-D]

The owner can manufacture a replacement part, but that doesn't mean he can install it unless it's a listed preventative maintenance item.
The owner could have an airbox made, but an A&P (maybe an IA, I don't know) would have to install it and sign it off as airworthy.

Right Tom?

The only time a Inspection Authorization comes into play is for annual inspections, and inspection of major repairs or returning the aircraft to service on a 337. All other maintenance is done on the A&P.

you as the A&P can complete a major repair, sign it off in block#6.

I can as the IA return it to service on block #7.

annual inspections are a gimmy, we all know it requires a IA to sign off the annual.

 

[Silvaire]

The owner produced part issue is pretty clear: you can make a new part to the same specs as the original if the original is NLA but you can't make two of them or sell one.

 

[Tom-D]

The owner produced part issue is pretty clear: you can make a new part to the same specs as the original if the original is NLA but you can't make two of them or sell one.

Now you have discovered my secret, I buy the aircraft I restore, because we must make a lot of the parts.

Many of the antique and classic aircraft companies are long gone, but they have great support from type clubs like the Fairchild club. You can buy their CD and get 4000 blue prints. and a wealth of info from their web page.

Cessna / Piper not so much.

 

[wabower]

That doctrine is sometimes expanded as bolded.

The owner produced part issue is pretty clear: you can make a new part to the same specs as the original if the original is NLA at a price that anybody with a lick of sense would be unwilling to pay when it can be fabricated or purchased at the auto supply store for less than 10% of the cost but you can't make two of them or sell one.

 

[Tom-D]

The Fix.

 

[Tom-D]

the other side