Overhaul time!

[Velocity173]

Pretty much knew it wouldn't be long before I needed an overhaul on the Velocity. 900 hrs SMOH and she sat on the ramp in Sebastion, FL for a year. Looking at 19 grand for the overhaul. Over course that doesn't include a lot of the accessories involved. Not sure if I'm going with reconditioned cylinders or new cylinders at this point.

 

[frfly172]

Why worry about the overhauled cylinders. Go for the new ones up front. Cost will be more ,but should give you peace of mind.

 

[flyingmoose]

Seems like a lot of corrosion on that crank for just sitting a year. Is that why you decided to do the overhaul or is there other factors? I think you will find that overhauled cylinders will run you about as much as new ones if they have to start replacing a bunch of things.

 

[Velocity173]

Seems like a lot of corrosion on that crank for just sitting a year. Is that why you decided to do the overhaul or is there other factors? I think you will find that overhauled cylinders will run you about as much as new ones if they have to start replacing a bunch of things.

Well I think anything sitting around Florida for a year is going to be a mess if they didn't pickle the engine. Compressions were good (70s) when I bought it but I knew I might have a problem with corrosion.

The cylinders are just the beginning. The sides of the pistons were scorned (high metal content in the oil), the cam lobes are worn, stuck valves, leaky case, motor mounts shot, old hoses, fuel splitter bracket broken and for some reason mounted on the bottom, baffling, etc, etc.

Another thing that they found is that my intake air is mounted below the right wing. It had no filter other than a mesh screen in front. A&P said crud was just getting sent into the intake manifold and just speeding up the wearing out process.

It's aircraft ownership and I've prepared for this. The 19 grand quote is for new cylinders so I'll go with that. Few more thousand for mounting, hoses and other essentials.

 

[MickYoumans]

My engine is getting a major overhaul right now too. I ordered new Lycoming cylinders from Air Power Inc in Arlington Texas. You might find it saves you a few hundred dollars to order your own cylinders to supply the mechanic like I did. Here is the link.

http://www.airpowerinc.com

 

[Ted]

I personally do not recommend reconditioned cylinders on an overhaul, unless you have a set of factory cylinders that you know were first run previously. Even then, I question it. Sure, it's legal to overhaul them, but in the end it will cost you more money to use overhauled ones. I've seen it time and time again.

 

[Velocity173]

I personally do not recommend reconditioned cylinders on an overhaul, unless you have a set of factory cylinders that you know were first run previously. Even then, I question it. Sure, it's legal to overhaul them, but in the end it will cost you more money to use overhauled ones. I've seen it time and time again.

Yeah they're not first run. Came off a wrecked Seneca and were overhauled back in 97. I was thinking maybe there is something to the Lycoming recommended 12 yr overhaul. At least if it's been sitting for awhile it makes sense.

My shop is charging a hefty fee for removal and install. Anyone have an estimate of what that should cost?

 

[Jimmy cooper]

How about Charlie in Florida. Is the company called zephyr? would he be a good one to call? Great reputation.

 

[Velocity173]

How about Charlie in Florida. Is the company called zephyr? would he be a good one to call?

Well I've already got the process rolling. I went with a well Known shop with good references. His qoute of $18,900 (200 HP) seems competitive to all the other shops online.

I used JB Engines in Florida years ago for my IO-320. They quoted 18 but they add all these additional fees and parts. Said and done that one came up to 23 grand. Outrageous if you ask me. 1950s technology sold for more than what a new car costs these days. I guess I shouldn't complain. I saw online that a new IO-360 from Lycoming costs 52 grand...with a core return!

 

[flyingriki]

First, my condlences. I'm in the same process now but doing it myself. Keep in mind that they may find some parts that get red tagged. Mine sat in Pensacola for some time and had cermi-chrome cylinders which I knew wouldn't go far.

In my current overhaul the crank was good but took $1,100 in repairs, ADs etc. Total rotating parts overhaul tab is $2,600. In addition to that bill the rods were red tagged, found some for overhaul under a grand. Cam was red tagged, found used for $650. Sump red tagged, got a Superior for $650. Cases were good but needed some new studs for over $800. Could have been worse, could have been much better!

The point is your quote may hold and it may not. Be prepared.....good luck.
PS: ditto on cylinders, go new. Consider more compression.
http://www.nfspistons.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_L.asp?idCategory=12

 

[Velocity173]

Oh I have no doubt that quote won't hold up. I learned that from my first experience with the 320 down in Florida.

 

[Ted]

Yeah they're not first run. Came off a wrecked Seneca and were overhauled back in 97. I was thinking maybe there is something to the Lycoming recommended 12 yr overhaul. At least if it's been sitting for awhile it makes sense.

Yeah, I'd say it's time for new cylinders. I would buy Lycoming factory cylinders new. In my experience, they make the best for Lycomings. For Continentals, it's more debatable. I wish that Lycoming decided to make aftermarket cylinders for Continentals.

How about Charlie in Florida. Is the company called zephyr? would he be a good one to call? Great reputation.

Charlie's company is Zephyr Aircraft Engines. We chose them for the 310's double overhaul a year and a half ago. We're somewhere in the 150-200 hour range now, and are extremely happy thus far.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Yes. Zephyr. I know two owners, one a mooney owner, the other an archer owner. Both raved about this outfit. Apparently a class act.

 

[Velocity173]

Ready for install!

 

[AdamZ]

Well I think anything sitting around Florida for a year is going to be a mess if they didn't pickle the engine. Compressions were good (70s) when I bought it but I knew I might have a problem with corrosion.

The cylinders are just the beginning. The sides of the pistons were scorned (high metal content in the oil), the cam lobes are worn, stuck valves, leaky case, motor mounts shot, old hoses, fuel splitter bracket broken and for some reason mounted on the bottom, baffling, etc, etc.

Another thing that they found is that my intake air is mounted below the right wing. It had no filter other than a mesh screen in front. A&P said crud was just getting sent into the intake manifold and just speeding up the wearing out process.

It's aircraft ownership and I've prepared for this. The 19 grand quote is for new cylinders so I'll go with that. Few more thousand for mounting, hoses and other essentials.

Curious how many hours did you put on the engine since you bought it?

 

[Henning]

Yeah they're not first run. Came off a wrecked Seneca and were overhauled back in 97. I was thinking maybe there is something to the Lycoming recommended 12 yr overhaul. At least if it's been sitting for awhile it makes sense.

My shop is charging a hefty fee for removal and install. Anyone have an estimate of what that should cost?

It's experimental, you should be doing it yourself as well as the engine for half the price. How many hours will it take at $80 a man hour?

 

[Velocity173]

Curious how many hours did you put on the engine since you bought it?

Approx 100 hrs. Flew it for 2 yrs. probably averaged 4 flights per month.

 

[Velocity173]

It's experimental, you should be doing it yourself as well as the engine for half the price. How many hours will it take at $80 a man hour?[/

I thought about getting some A&P friends to come out and help me but they didn't feel comfortable "moving in on their territory" so to speak. Since these guys are doing the condition inspection, I'm just going to stick with them for the engine install. They're saying it's a 50 hr job for the install???

 

[Velocity173]

I guess red is this shop's signature. Luckily my plane has red stripes so it should go together well.

 

[Henning]

50 hours to R&R an engine? That would have to be one hella complex installation. I've never worked on a Velocity, but unless it was a dogs breakfast install and they are doing a bunch of remedial stuff and mods, that seems quite high, I would expect less than half that. If it took 18hrs, I would expect a prize winning install.

 

[Velocity173]

50 hours to R&R an engine? That would have to be one hella complex installation. I've never worked on a Velocity, but unless it was a dogs breakfast install and they are doing a bunch of remedial stuff and mods, that seems quite high, I would expect less than half that. If it took 18hrs, I would expect a prize winning install.

Lol! Yeah I was thinking the same thing myself. There's a lot of homemade, builder rigged stuff back there that they're trying to replace and standardize. Take my air intake for instance. It's mounted on the right inbound portion below the wing. There's not filter, just chicken wire inside the intake. All the crap that flys off the right wheel goes right into the intake and therefore into the engine. No one puts a filter there because they're worried about robbing the engine if a few HP. I like homebuilts but sometimes I miss the standardization of certified.

 

[Norman]

They're saying it's a 50 hr job for the install???

Bend over. Here it comes.

20 hours, even taking coffee breaks, is more than adequate time.

 

[KSMooniac]

I personally do not recommend reconditioned cylinders on an overhaul, unless you have a set of factory cylinders that you know were first run previously. Even then, I question it. Sure, it's legal to overhaul them, but in the end it will cost you more money to use overhauled ones. I've seen it time and time again.

Well, not true for every case... Lycoming angle valve cylinders are sole source from Lycoming, and cost north of 2 AMU each. You can get a top-shelf overhaul for far less than that.

 

[kyleb]

It's experimental, you should be doing it yourself as well as the engine for half the price. How many hours will it take at $80 a man hour?[/

I thought about getting some A&P friends to come out and help me but they didn't feel comfortable "moving in on their territory" so to speak. Since these guys are doing the condition inspection, I'm just going to stick with them for the engine install. They're saying it's a 50 hr job for the install???

I installed my engine. I can't see it taking 50 hours.

5 hours to install accessories.
3 hours to install baffles.
2 hours to hang the engine.
1 hour to install the exhaust.
1 hour to plumb fuel and oil lines.
1 hour to hook-up the controls.
1 hour to install a FP prop and spinner.
1 hour to set the timing, do brief ground tests and re-cowl.

That comes to 15 hours. I'm probably missing something, but 50 hours sounds like a long time.

 

[MickYoumans]

Fifty hours seems excessive to me too. I just had my engine overhauled. My mechanic charged me for 30 hours. The 30 hours included engine removal and prep for sending to overhaul shop, engine reinstallation and new engine monitor installation. The engine monitor consisted of 4 EGT's, 4 CHT's, carb temp probe, fuel flow, annunciator LED's and display installation in the panel.

 

[Velocity173]

First test flight today in 1 1/2 years. No leaks, temps good. So far so good.

 

[AdamZ]

Good to hear.