[OT] How long to get a Ford Catalytic Converter?

My understanding of the AM convertors is they don't put as much catalyst material inside as the OEM, the materials inside, which include platinum are most of the cost of the convertor. The end result, as explained by my mechanic, is that they don't last as long as the OEM, especially in states that have adopted CA emissions.

Catalytic converters use platinum, rhodium, and palladium. And yes, AM ones have less than OEM. When selling to my scrap buyer, OEMs range between $65-85 average (some are much more than that), but AM's are only $15-20 average. One visual difference is size, as they are much smaller than OEMs.
 
Maybe some, I don't buy the cheapest junk out there either so maybe I haven't run across it. The couple I have had installed have lasted pretty well and don't fail inspection. Like you, I get ones that are CA/50 State legal and see good service in my limited sample. Another thing to consider, most cars replacing a CC don't have that much longer for life anyway. Typically CCs last the life of a car, and when they go, everything else will follow in short order. This is pretty much true regardless if it is damage or age/use related. If someone breaks a CC, chances are they'll total it before the warranty is up.:lol:

I see convertor failures generally from coolant/fuel/oil contamination or the media just breaking apart from road vibration.

I just put a weld in Magna Flow CA spec on one bank of an F150 for a wholesale parts cost of $100 on a $5K truck, so it made sense. The OEM was $1500 just for the part, so it didn't. Failure was due to lots of rough construction roads.

Another anecdote was the plastic intake manifolds that became all the rage around 2000 with the big 3. When they leaked into the intake, which was often, then bye-bye convertor. Lots of expensive cascade effect repairs because of this.
 
Catalytic converters use platinum, rhodium, and palladium. And yes, AM ones have less than OEM. When selling to my scrap buyer, OEMs range between $65-85 average (some are much more than that), but AM's are only $15-20 average. One visual difference is size, as they are much smaller than OEMs.

BMW ones used to fetch the most, the ones behind Ford Diesels were a bloody treasure. Not all of them contain Rhodium either, that is one of the big differentials in value between scrap converters.
 
Geoffrey, not sure if your post was directed at me, but we are down to the cat, O2 sensors replaced ( with OEM), no leaks in the exhaust, PCM reflashed, yet it repeatedly fails the slow sensor test and less often the cat efficiency test. If you look at the down stream o2 sensor on the good bank, the signal is very stable where the downstream o2 sensor on the bad cat follows the upstream sensor and is much more active. I was able to get a sticker as the slow sensor test needs the jeep going over 60mph, and the cat efficiency test takes a few hundred miles to set. But it's a pain in the butt with the MIL light on as the remote start won't work and the cylinder deactivation doesn't work along with a few other things.
Not directed at anyone in particular - just some background info on the tests. One of the issues that California has with the current test is that there is a "gap" between passing a bad catalyst and detecting a slow sensor. They claim that if the test was done the way they specify the gap can be closed. But the fact is that it just doesn't work that way. The more you try to close the gap, the higher the likelyhood that you will set codes when there is nothing wrong. There are just too many variables in actual customer drive cycles, effects of catalyst temperature, fuel control, etc.
 
Rental cars are covered by extended service agreements, Ford will reimburse dealers a certain number of rental days per year. The number varies between dealers, but it is a very small number, maybe 3-5% of the total number of warranty claims. They are allocated 6 months at a time we have normally used our allocation by the 4th month.:mad2:

Every dealer has their own policy on rental/loaner cars, most will offer them during the 1st 12/12,000, some longer, some not at all.

Was the car purchased from the dealer? Is it serviced there? Do you have other vehicles that were purchased or serviced there? Is the issue recurring or the fault of the dealership? These are some of the things that would go into the decision for the dealer to pay for a rental car.


All of this. And in case you don't know, John owns a Ford dealership.


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Thanks for the responses guys. I've done a lot yelling, including a bunch of one star reviews on Yelp and several posts a week on the Ford sponsored Focus Facebook group.

Of course I'm not allowed to talk to the mechanic who diagnosed the problem. And really, I don't want to tell him how to do his job. I'm sure he's working within what constraints his management imposes anyway. My local independant mechanic said there were after market converters available, but I'm pretty sure a Ford dealer can't install a non 'TSO' converter.

I've got people from Ford Corporate and the dealer calling me every few days to tell me they don't really have a clue as to why this part is unavailable.

You'd think I was driving a Bugatti Veyron rather than a prosaic little econ-box.

The most optimistic report I've had is from the Ford corporate customer service person says it had been shipped, and that sometime it would arrive. Maybe.

I feel sorry for the dealer and corporate customer service people, who have no power to fix anything, and are just there to absorb abuse from disappointed customers. I try real hard to not take my anger at Ford and dealer management out on the worker bees.

And I'm serious about wanting the name of whatever executive at Ford Corporate is responsible for running the replacement part supply chain. I'd really like to contact him or her directly and just ask for their side of the story.

I am supposed to believe that Ford has no way to track the flow of parts through its system. That nobody knows where these parts are made, nobody knows what carrier is shipping them, nobody can say when or if a part might arrive.

How is this possible?!
 
The parts are at the assembly plant. Want a converter? Find out where the assembly plant is, fly out there and get one. Take a hack saw, it's likely on a pipe.
 
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Was the car purchased from the dealer? Is it serviced there? Do you have other vehicles that were purchased or serviced there? Is the issue recurring or the fault of the dealership? These are some of the things that would go into the decision for the dealer to pay for a rental car.

I own five Fords. I have purchased cars from this dealer, but not this particular one. This dealer has done all the maintenance on this car since it was new.

At the Hertz agency in the dealership the cheapest car is $38/day. I always rent on my Amex card, which charges me an extra $25 for day one in exchange for full damage coverage. My extended warranty provides $30/day, so I'd be out of pocket several hundred dollars by now.

I would have appreciated it if the dealer had just looked out at his huge used car lot, pointed to one of the several nice Foci he has there and tossed me the keys to one. That would be act of a company dedicated to customer service. Not on day one, but certainly by day 20!

I have 2000 Explorer (purchased from this dealer) with 208,000 miles on it. It's cat has never had a problem, and I'm driving it my 50 or 60 miles a day. It's a great little SUV, but it is eating me alive for gas. Which is why I bought a Focus in the first place.

I'm over 60, which to a marketing person means I'm set in my ways. Prior to this issue my next car would almost certainly have been a Ford, probably a Fusion. Not now, not after this.
 
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Keep your fuel receipts, calculate the difference, sue Ford for it in Small Claims Court. They have legal obligations to provide parts support for a few years.
 
You could also take the car away from the Ford dealer, haul it down to Midas for a legal repair then present the bill.
 
I would have appreciated it if the dealer had just looked out at his huge used car lot, pointed to one of the several nice Foci he has there and tossed me the keys to one. That would be act of a company dedicated to customer service. Not on day one, but certainly by day 20!

Have you strongly re-iterated that option back to them, now that you are both in this position?

You can sweeten the deal by telling them you will either delete your negative "bad" Yelp reviews, or ramp up your social media campaign, depending on their answer.
 
I own five Fords. I have purchased cars from this dealer, but not this particular one. This dealer has done all the maintenance on this car since it was new.

At the Hertz agency in the dealership the cheapest car is $38/day. I always rent on my Amex card, which charges me an extra $25 for day one in exchange for full damage coverage. My extended warranty provides $30/day, so I'd be out of pocket several hundred dollars by now.

I would have appreciated it if the dealer had just looked out at his huge used car lot, pointed to one of the several nice Foci he has there and tossed me the keys to one. That would be act of a company dedicated to customer service. Not on day one, but certainly by day 20!

I have 2000 Explorer (purchased from this dealer) with 208,000 miles on it. It's cat has never had a problem, and I'm driving it my 50 or 60 miles a day. It's a great little SUV, but it is eating me alive for gas. Which is why I bought a Focus in the first place.

I'm over 60, which to a marketing person means I'm set in my ways. Prior to this issue my next car would almost certainly have been a Ford, probably a Fusion. Not now, not after this.

Why don't they put it back together for you, drive it until the new part comes in? Is it even taken apart yet?
 
At the Hertz agency in the dealership the cheapest car is $38/day. I always rent on my Amex card, which charges me an extra $25 for day one in exchange for full damage coverage. My extended warranty provides $30/day, so I'd be out of pocket several hundred dollars by now.
By my calculation, it would have cost you $185 and them $600. Right now they don't care if they ever get you a part. You need to give them some skin in the game. And unless you have to rent from them to get the money, Enterprise has cars for $185/wk.
 
Have you strongly re-iterated that option back to them, now that you are both in this position?

You can sweeten the deal by telling them you will either delete your negative "bad" Yelp reviews, or ramp up your social media campaign, depending on their answer.

The big deal isn't the loaner car, it's the shear incompetence of the whole management chain compounded by the fact that I am sure there is someone in the Ford hierarchy who could at least give me an honest and accurate estimate of when this part might appear here in Austin.

Sadly, I'm pretty sure the whole dealer system is designed to ensure that no bad news ever flows up, and above all, that anybody with real knowledge and authority to solve a customer's problem (or at least provide an informed answer to a question) is totally walled off from any customer contact whatsoever under any circumstance.
 
The big deal isn't the loaner car, it's the shear incompetence of the whole management chain compounded by the fact that I am sure there is someone in the Ford hierarchy who could at least give me an honest and accurate estimate of when this part might appear here in Austin.

Sadly, I'm pretty sure the whole dealer system is designed to ensure that no bad news ever flows up, and above all, that anybody with real knowledge and authority to solve a customer's problem (or at least provide an informed answer to a question) is totally walled off from any customer contact whatsoever under any circumstance.

You are correct .... the wall exists, and the person with real knowledge is the supply chain planner buried deep in the system -- you and he/she will never ever get to talk to each other.

The car is a bigger deal than you recognize, though, because it is one of the only tools you have that will give you some leverage over their system. Without it, the local dealer has no skin in the game to solve your problem, and it is easier to let you wallow for months if needed, until the Ford standard process magically produces your part.

With it, that missing car from their inventory will be looking at them every week. At some point someone in the dealer's chain of command will eventually get pizzed enough to go around the system and see where your cat is, or fund your aftermarket solution.

In the meanwhile, you keep putting miles on your gas guzzler at your expense... :no:
 
Jim, I feel your pain in this one, we used to have a zone manager that could help with issues, now we have an email address and occasionally we can get someone on the phone! We found out Friday that the clutch packs for Focus transmissions are on intergalactic back order!! :mad2:
In you case, I'm sure the dealer is doing all he can to get the parts, none if us want a customer's car sitting!

The big deal isn't the loaner car, it's the shear incompetence of the whole management chain compounded by the fact that I am sure there is someone in the Ford hierarchy who could at least give me an honest and accurate estimate of when this part might appear here in Austin.

Sadly, I'm pretty sure the whole dealer system is designed to ensure that no bad news ever flows up, and above all, that anybody with real knowledge and authority to solve a customer's problem (or at least provide an informed answer to a question) is totally walled off from any customer contact whatsoever under any circumstance.
 
You need to insist they put an aftermarket one on your car as a temp until the other one comes in, if they need to send it to Midas, whatever.
 
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I don't know, these don't seem like the kind of things that lend themselves to being sold as used parts! :D

Maybe not the clutch pack itself, but the transmission as a whole.
 
Well, I have my Focus back after 31 days. The bill was for $74, the cost of an oil change and state inspection. Ford also replaced the clutch pack as part of a quiet recall of the notorious six speed dual clutch transmission. My first impression is that the transmission is noticeably smoother, but the jury on that is still out.

But Ford wasn't through tormenting me yet. At Covert Ford of Austin Texas when you pick up your car after service you wait outside at the end of the service lane for a porter to bring you your car.

Today just happened to be our first 'Norther', so we had about a 10-15 knot wind of 40F air.

So it was pretty cold out there as I waited for my car. And waited. And waited.

After about 20 minutes I went back in to the service department waiting room and asked where my car was. The nice lady behind the counter said it would be out there in just a minute.

So I went back out and waited some more. Fortunately a clueful service writer asked if I need any help, so I told her I just wanted my car. She sent me back into the warm waiting room and said she would track it down.

Which she did. After about 30 minutes. So after waiting 31 days for a part that should always be in stock I waited another hour before I could finally escape the clutches of my Ford dealer.

Oh, and when my car was found the Service writer said words to the effect of 'at least we lent you a car'. Actually, they refused to lend me a car because liability. So that just rubbed a little more salt into the wound.

Sigh.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I've done a lot yelling, including a bunch of one star reviews on Yelp and several posts a week on the Ford sponsored Focus Facebook group.

Of course I'm not allowed to talk to the mechanic who diagnosed the problem. And really, I don't want to tell him how to do his job. I'm sure he's working within what constraints his management imposes anyway. My local independant mechanic said there were after market converters available, but I'm pretty sure a Ford dealer can't install a non 'TSO' converter.

I've got people from Ford Corporate and the dealer calling me every few days to tell me they don't really have a clue as to why this part is unavailable.

You'd think I was driving a Bugatti Veyron rather than a prosaic little econ-box.

The most optimistic report I've had is from the Ford corporate customer service person says it had been shipped, and that sometime it would arrive. Maybe.

I feel sorry for the dealer and corporate customer service people, who have no power to fix anything, and are just there to absorb abuse from disappointed customers. I try real hard to not take my anger at Ford and dealer management out on the worker bees.

And I'm serious about wanting the name of whatever executive at Ford Corporate is responsible for running the replacement part supply chain. I'd really like to contact him or her directly and just ask for their side of the story.

I am supposed to believe that Ford has no way to track the flow of parts through its system. That nobody knows where these parts are made, nobody knows what carrier is shipping them, nobody can say when or if a part might arrive.

How is this possible?!
You can do a great deal of research online. Start with the Ford home page which will list the exec mgt team. Your best contact might be the VP of Operations Distribution or Marketing or even all of them. Then fax - not email, fax - to corp address, attention the VP.

If you can't easily find the name, make a call to corp HQ and keep asking until you get a name and fax number. Emails are ignored. Fax are more permanent and traceable.

Disclaimer - dad was fleet mgr at one of the largest dealers in the country. I still use his business cards when necessary. Yeah, a shame the Zone Mgr position was eliminated.
 
Well, I have my Focus back after 31 days. The bill was for $74, the cost of an oil change and state inspection. Ford also replaced the clutch pack as part of a quiet recall of the notorious six speed dual clutch transmission. My first impression is that the transmission is noticeably smoother, but the jury on that is still out.

But Ford wasn't through tormenting me yet. At Covert Ford of Austin Texas when you pick up your car after service you wait outside at the end of the service lane for a porter to bring you your car.

Today just happened to be our first 'Norther', so we had about a 10-15 knot wind of 40F air.

So it was pretty cold out there as I waited for my car. And waited. And waited.

After about 20 minutes I went back in to the service department waiting room and asked where my car was. The nice lady behind the counter said it would be out there in just a minute.

So I went back out and waited some more. Fortunately a clueful service writer asked if I need any help, so I told her I just wanted my car. She sent me back into the warm waiting room and said she would track it down.

Which she did. After about 30 minutes. So after waiting 31 days for a part that should always be in stock I waited another hour before I could finally escape the clutches of my Ford dealer.

Oh, and when my car was found the Service writer said words to the effect of 'at least we lent you a car'. Actually, they refused to lend me a car because liability. So that just rubbed a little more salt into the wound.

Sigh.
I refuse to wait more than 10min for my car, more if there are others waiting. The shop has a single key, it never has my personal set. After I settle the bill if the car isn't at the door, I head to the back of the lot where I know the car is sitting. Most of the time the runner sees me and either waves or rushes to beat me to the car so he car remove the plastic covering the seats.

But then, the current car is out of warranty for most things.
 
Well, I have my Focus back after 31 days. The bill was for $74, the cost of an oil change and state inspection. Ford also replaced the clutch pack as part of a quiet recall of the notorious six speed dual clutch transmission. My first impression is that the transmission is noticeably smoother, but the jury on that is still out.

But Ford wasn't through tormenting me yet. At Covert Ford of Austin Texas when you pick up your car after service you wait outside at the end of the service lane for a porter to bring you your car.

Today just happened to be our first 'Norther', so we had about a 10-15 knot wind of 40F air.

So it was pretty cold out there as I waited for my car. And waited. And waited.

After about 20 minutes I went back in to the service department waiting room and asked where my car was. The nice lady behind the counter said it would be out there in just a minute.

So I went back out and waited some more. Fortunately a clueful service writer asked if I need any help, so I told her I just wanted my car. She sent me back into the warm waiting room and said she would track it down.

Which she did. After about 30 minutes. So after waiting 31 days for a part that should always be in stock I waited another hour before I could finally escape the clutches of my Ford dealer.

Oh, and when my car was found the Service writer said words to the effect of 'at least we lent you a car'. Actually, they refused to lend me a car because liability. So that just rubbed a little more salt into the wound.

Sigh.

I'm willing to bet that as far as Ford is concerned the dealership lent you a car and the dealership will be reimbursed for that.
 
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