Orlando DA-42 taxi fatality

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Ed Haywood, Sep 2, 2022.

  1. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
  2. Peter Anderson

    Peter Anderson Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    NorCal

    Display name:
    SVTPete83
    Jeez that’s terrible


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  3. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,354

    Display name:
    asicer
    To be fair, that's probably an atypical crash profile. You gotta make your tradeoffs to account for the majority.
     
  4. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    15,647
    Location:
    high desert NM

    Display name:
    Billy
    I agree, this is not the typical accident.

    Personally I think any aircraft that needs the canopy to be lifted to exit is not a good idea.
     
  5. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    956

    Display name:
    Good Guy
    60+ mile an hour wind gust on takeoff roll.
     
    Tantalum likes this.
  6. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    And I would argue that a fixed gear airplane coming to rest upside down is very typical. With any off-airport landing or runway departure, that is a possible outcome. A quick Google Images search for "plane crash upside down" yields dozens of photos of GA aircraft on their backs. Notably, the high wing aircraft captions usually say "pilot uninjured."

    Common enough for low wing aircraft to justify a roll bar or roof cage structure sufficient to protect the occupants and facilitate egress.
     
    Morgan3820 and dmspilot like this.
  7. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    There certainly should be some thought given to alternative egress, such as roof cage and push out panel on the side.

    Here is one that happened about 5 years ago at my old home airfield: http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/11/cirrus-sr22-g3-n271ts-fatal-accident.html

    KathrynsReport.jpg
     
  8. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    Close to daily occurrence here in central Florida this time of year. The gusts, not the attempted takeoff in one. Poor weather knowledge by the pilot not anticipating the gust front that preceeds a thunderstorm. They thought they were going to sneak out before it hit.
     
    SFDukie likes this.
  9. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,063
    Location:
    New Bern, NC

    Display name:
    El Conquistador
    The PA-38 came with a roll bar
     
    SFDukie and Ed Haywood like this.
  10. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    Diamond website says they have a roll cage structure. Perhaps some engineering review is warranted?

    To be fair, I haven't seen any photos of the crash, so don't know if the fatality was due to roof collapse or some other factor. But this guy's noggin does seem somewhat exposed:

    csm_Safety_Cell_DA42-VI_1e58b31eb5.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
    TCABM likes this.
  11. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    The DA42 does too. Perhaps not a good enough one, though?
     
  12. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    9,641
    Location:
    Lincoln NE

    Display name:
    Brian
    Everyone eyeballs these sleek newer aircraft so envious, all I can ever imagine is being trapped in one.
     
  13. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    956

    Display name:
    Good Guy
    It might have been poor wx knowledge on the part of the pilot, but it would have gotten me too. I would not expect a 60+ kt gust. In that wx, I'd be in the hangar.
     
  14. TrueCourse

    TrueCourse Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2019
    Messages:
    691

    Display name:
    TrueCourse
    Is that what they are reporting? Early report I heard was they were waiting it out, before attempting a takeoff.

    EDIT: "The plane was holding for takeoff on a taxiway while the weather was unfavorable, according to a spokesperson for the airport."
     
  15. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    15,327
    Location:
    mass fla

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Better to wait for the front to pass than try to get out in front of it. Everyday weather for Florida in the summer
     
    SFDukie, Ed Haywood and DesertNomad like this.
  16. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    Imagine just sitting there parked, and getting killed by wind. Crazy.
     
    SFDukie and TCABM like this.
  17. IK04

    IK04 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,126
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas

    Display name:
    LNXGUY
    That's a d DA-40, not a DA-42.
     
    SFDukie likes this.
  18. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,904
    Location:
    North Carolina once again.

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Pretty much all of the light GA aircraft are death traps in a crash. The real lesson here is don’t crash.
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  19. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,354

    Display name:
    asicer
    This?
    upload_2022-9-2_20-38-41.png
     
  20. woodchucker

    woodchucker Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,789

    Display name:
    woodchucker
    You aren’t wrong. Of our club aircraft the Tiger is my favorite. But I’ve always thought that in the event of a forced landing I would want to have the canopy opened and something wedged in there to prevent a situation where it wouldn’t be locked shut. Then I remember pilots forget to bring in flaps in emergency situations. But something like this? Jeez. Truly awful.
     
    SFDukie and Zeldman like this.
  21. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    In support of my statement I will offer this photo of a DA-42 after an off-airport landing in May. No injuries.

    KathrynsReport.jpg
     
  22. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,851
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ and Ensenada, Mexico

    Display name:
    rgbeard
    It wasn’t that long ago I landed at Goodyear Airport with the Lance.

    I had just beat in an approaching microburst, which looked simply like any other rain storm at the time.

    Once I got on the ground and turned off the runway to the taxiway I realized I was in trouble. The water was washing across the taxiway at such a rate that I could no longer discern the asphalt from the grass.

    at one point the Stall horn went off and my wife asked with great alarm, “what the hell was that?”

    My mind was already writing the accident report. But I simply said to myself, not today mother nature, not today. We sat on what I knew was taxiway with power on and the control wheel forward and let the storm pass. It didn’t take very long. But it seemed like forever
     
  23. texasclouds

    texasclouds En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    2,620
    Location:
    Bryan, Texas

    Display name:
    Mark
  24. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    From the comments on Kathryn's Report:

    The CFI who survived had his seat position slightly more backward, so he was protected by the bar, as it was right over his head. The other person had his seat all the way forward and was thus not protected by the bar. The seat position in a roll over is quite important in a DA40 or DA 42 and a few inches difference in the adjustment of the seat can mean the difference between life and death.​
     
  25. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,433

    Display name:
    jsstevens
    DA-40 and DA-42 share much of the fuselage structure. And the rear window in both is an emergency exit in case of the tip up front canopy being blocked. That said, I don’t know why the fatality in this case; crushed structure, popped their restraints loose because of the hold, or some other issue. It’s really impossible to tell from those pictures.
     
  26. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,433

    Display name:
    jsstevens
    Neither the DA-40 nor the DA-42 have adjustable seats. The pedals move.
     
    Ed Haywood likes this.
  27. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    Well I guess that Kathryn's comment is BS then.

    Edit: a little browsing on owner's forum indicates reclining front seat backrests are an option on DA-42.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  28. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,433

    Display name:
    jsstevens
    That I was not aware of. They weren’t on the one I flew.
     
    Ed Haywood likes this.
  29. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    Gotta pay extra. The European market calls it the platinum package. Which in American English translates to "if you have to ask, you can't afford it."
     
    TCABM likes this.
  30. Chicago Bearhawk

    Chicago Bearhawk Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2018
    Messages:
    58

    Display name:
    Chicago Bearhawk
    Ok, so my only question in this type of aircraft, or any for that matter, would gear up give you a better chance of not nosing over?
     
  31. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,106
    Location:
    Wichita, KS

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Good technique also helps.
     
  32. mandm

    mandm Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Chicago

    Display name:
    Michael
    Any idea what the weather conditions and ATIS report was at the time of incident? I never thought a plane would flip over, once waited out high winds in the hangar but once gusts are in the 30s I thought it was manageable enough to taxi. Wasn’t interested in trying with 50+kts gusts.
     
  33. flightwriter

    flightwriter Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    Corrales, NM

    Display name:
    Rob Finfrock
    One apparent difference in photos from the ORL accident relative to others posted on this thread is that the tail structure appears to have been crushed. Not sure how causal that may be, though.
     
  34. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    1,526
    Location:
    Tampa FL

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    ATIS supposedly peaked at 50ish. Not at all surprising. People talk about "microbursts" like it is some mysterious freak event. But every thunderstorm has a gust front. The taller the storm, the more violent the gust. Late every afternoon in central FL, I step out of the hangar to cool off in the blast of cold air from passing T cells.

    But hard to put this entirely on the pilots. They taxied out, saw a fast moving cell was nearby, and elected to wait it out. Could be they were pointed in the wrong direction, or had incorrect anti-wind inputs? With those long, high lift glider wings, an aileron in the wrong direction might be enough to lift a wing over. Likewise for a tailwind with the elevator up. Seems to me if you weather vaned so nose is directly into the wind, you should be able to handle a gust of nearly any force.

    Regardless, an aircraft should be crashworthy enough that a stationary event does not result in a fatality. IMO they just tried to make the airplane a little too sexy.
     
    TCABM likes this.