Hey all,
Have a question about the "original point of departure." At what point does your flight end thereby changing your original point of departure?
The FAR's dont really seem to offer guidance on what can be considered a single flight with multiple legs vs multiple local flights.
Here are some example flights Ive made that are impacted by the answer:
1. I flew from Carlsbad (CRQ) to Big Bear (L35) and then on to Borrego Valley (L08) before returning to Carlsbad (CRQ) via the Juilian (JLI) VOR.
CRQ to L35 is a straight line distance of 71NM and L35 to L08 is a straightline distance of 66NM. L08 to CRQ was a 50NM travel distance on account of the JLI VOR but only a straight-line distance of 49NM
2. I made a XC trip from Brandywine (OQN) to Cape May (WWD) on to Atlantic City (ACY) then to Pottstown Heritage (PTW) and back to Brandywine (OQN).
OQN to WWD and ACY to PTW are easy as both of those legs are over 50 NM at 67 NM and 65 NM respectively, but WWD to ACY is only 31NM and PTW to OQN is only 15 NM. In fact, I have several "local" flights logged from OQN to PTW.
3. I made a XC trip from Brandywine (OQN) to Capital City (CXY) at 60NM but I had a stopover for lunch at Smoketown (S37) which is mid-way between the 2 (29NM from OQN, 32NM from CXY).
4. I made a XC trip from Boerne Stage (5C1) to Lockhart (50R) but on the return trip I decided to get some Tower practice in and put in landings at San Marcos (HYI), New Braunfels (BAZ) and San Antonio (SAT) before returning to Boerne.
Again 5C1 to 50R is easy at 54NM
HYI is only 10 NM from 50R though and 45NM from 5C1
BAZ is only 15 NM from HYI, 21 NM from 50R and 34NM from 5C1
SAT is only 25 NM from BAZ, 46 NM from 50R and 16NM from 5C1
5. I made a XC trip from Boerne Stage (5C1) to Uvalde (UVA) onward to Pleasanton (PEZ) and back to Boerne Stage (5C1).
5C1 to UVA and UVA to PEZ is easy at 63NM and 66NM respectively but PEZ to 5C1 is only 47 NM
6. When I was a student pilot, I made a flight with my instructor that I believe may have ended up getting logged incorrectly... We flew from Boerne Stage (5C1) to Stinson (SSF) at 31 NM. He got out at Stinson while I did laps around the pattern for my solo-landings at a tower controlled airport and then got back in and we flew to Kerrville (ERV) at a distance of 55 NM from SSF. We landed at Kerrville and then returned to Boerne Stage (5C1) 25NM away. When we landed, he logged local time for the 5C1 to SSF leg, PIC/Solo time for SSF pattern and then XC for SSF to ERV to 5C1.
Here are 3 hypothetical flights that would also be impacted by the answer:
1. I normally fly out of Carlsbad (CRQ). Flying to Borego Valley (L08) is only 49NM but if I fly from/through Oceanside (OKB) its 52 NM. At what point does L08 or OKB become my point of departure?
2. A vacation, ferrry or other mutli-day flight with or without intention to return to "home" hoping between airports where no 1 day necessarily exceeds a 50nm straight line distance but the total distance certainly does.
3. Looking at doing my long solo-XC for my commercial rating. I was thinking I would fly from Carlsbad (CRQ) to Las Vegas (LAS) [actually probably Henderson or North Las Vegas but for now just say LAS], spending the night in Vegas on day 2 doing the Grand Canyon flight with a landing at Grand Canyon (GCN) before returning to Las Vegas (LAS) spending a 2nd night in Vegas and returning to Carlsbad (CRQ) the following day.
CRQ-LAS is only 205NM which does not meet the 250NM requirement but CRQ to GCN is 305 NM which does meet the requirement but Im not flying from CRQ to GCN, it'd look more like CRQ-LAS-GCN-LAS-CRQ or if returning to LAS would cause the "reset" (as opposed to the multiple days) then maybe CRQ-LAS-GCN-HND-CRQ.
The point of the regulations is to get you out of your backyard and beond your comfort zone, where weather and other flight planning pieces play an actual role in the flight but its sort of like how military pilots can receive XC time without actually landing at the destination (Granted, thousands of miles and hours spent loitering just outside the ADIZ for another country just to return home without landing does comply with the spirit of the regulation if not the actual letter of it.).
Have a question about the "original point of departure." At what point does your flight end thereby changing your original point of departure?
The FAR's dont really seem to offer guidance on what can be considered a single flight with multiple legs vs multiple local flights.
Here are some example flights Ive made that are impacted by the answer:
1. I flew from Carlsbad (CRQ) to Big Bear (L35) and then on to Borrego Valley (L08) before returning to Carlsbad (CRQ) via the Juilian (JLI) VOR.
CRQ to L35 is a straight line distance of 71NM and L35 to L08 is a straightline distance of 66NM. L08 to CRQ was a 50NM travel distance on account of the JLI VOR but only a straight-line distance of 49NM
2. I made a XC trip from Brandywine (OQN) to Cape May (WWD) on to Atlantic City (ACY) then to Pottstown Heritage (PTW) and back to Brandywine (OQN).
OQN to WWD and ACY to PTW are easy as both of those legs are over 50 NM at 67 NM and 65 NM respectively, but WWD to ACY is only 31NM and PTW to OQN is only 15 NM. In fact, I have several "local" flights logged from OQN to PTW.
3. I made a XC trip from Brandywine (OQN) to Capital City (CXY) at 60NM but I had a stopover for lunch at Smoketown (S37) which is mid-way between the 2 (29NM from OQN, 32NM from CXY).
4. I made a XC trip from Boerne Stage (5C1) to Lockhart (50R) but on the return trip I decided to get some Tower practice in and put in landings at San Marcos (HYI), New Braunfels (BAZ) and San Antonio (SAT) before returning to Boerne.
Again 5C1 to 50R is easy at 54NM
HYI is only 10 NM from 50R though and 45NM from 5C1
BAZ is only 15 NM from HYI, 21 NM from 50R and 34NM from 5C1
SAT is only 25 NM from BAZ, 46 NM from 50R and 16NM from 5C1
5. I made a XC trip from Boerne Stage (5C1) to Uvalde (UVA) onward to Pleasanton (PEZ) and back to Boerne Stage (5C1).
5C1 to UVA and UVA to PEZ is easy at 63NM and 66NM respectively but PEZ to 5C1 is only 47 NM
6. When I was a student pilot, I made a flight with my instructor that I believe may have ended up getting logged incorrectly... We flew from Boerne Stage (5C1) to Stinson (SSF) at 31 NM. He got out at Stinson while I did laps around the pattern for my solo-landings at a tower controlled airport and then got back in and we flew to Kerrville (ERV) at a distance of 55 NM from SSF. We landed at Kerrville and then returned to Boerne Stage (5C1) 25NM away. When we landed, he logged local time for the 5C1 to SSF leg, PIC/Solo time for SSF pattern and then XC for SSF to ERV to 5C1.
Here are 3 hypothetical flights that would also be impacted by the answer:
1. I normally fly out of Carlsbad (CRQ). Flying to Borego Valley (L08) is only 49NM but if I fly from/through Oceanside (OKB) its 52 NM. At what point does L08 or OKB become my point of departure?
2. A vacation, ferrry or other mutli-day flight with or without intention to return to "home" hoping between airports where no 1 day necessarily exceeds a 50nm straight line distance but the total distance certainly does.
3. Looking at doing my long solo-XC for my commercial rating. I was thinking I would fly from Carlsbad (CRQ) to Las Vegas (LAS) [actually probably Henderson or North Las Vegas but for now just say LAS], spending the night in Vegas on day 2 doing the Grand Canyon flight with a landing at Grand Canyon (GCN) before returning to Las Vegas (LAS) spending a 2nd night in Vegas and returning to Carlsbad (CRQ) the following day.
CRQ-LAS is only 205NM which does not meet the 250NM requirement but CRQ to GCN is 305 NM which does meet the requirement but Im not flying from CRQ to GCN, it'd look more like CRQ-LAS-GCN-LAS-CRQ or if returning to LAS would cause the "reset" (as opposed to the multiple days) then maybe CRQ-LAS-GCN-HND-CRQ.
The point of the regulations is to get you out of your backyard and beond your comfort zone, where weather and other flight planning pieces play an actual role in the flight but its sort of like how military pilots can receive XC time without actually landing at the destination (Granted, thousands of miles and hours spent loitering just outside the ADIZ for another country just to return home without landing does comply with the spirit of the regulation if not the actual letter of it.).
