Opinions please....

Aztec Driver

Aztec Driver

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
982
Location
Elizabethtown, PA
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Display name:
Bryon
Should my partner and I spend our money on upgrading our Twinkie, or should we sell it and buy a Mooney equipped the way we want it?

The Twinkie needs an autopilot, and a decent one, along with a few minor panel modifications, is likely to cost around 30K. She works well, and I really enjoy her, but I am wondering if my partner was right, and we should have gotten a Mooney when we bought. At the time, I needed more payload, which I rarely ever use anymore. It is usually just my wife and I, so we could use almost anything.

I would assume we could sell it for around 60K with mid time engines. Maybe that is a little optimistic in this economy. Adding 30K to that and we could get a reasonable turbo Mooney for around the same price. Something getting around 170-180 ktas would be really nice for the trips to JWN.

Anyone have any real world advice to share? Keep in mind that all of this is pretty much moot if my wife doesn't warm up to the idea.:mad2:
 
What do you enjoy flying better? Personally, flying a twin I would have a hard time going back to a single because I really enjoy flying twins. It's less about the theory of two engines being safer than one as I just enjoy it more. That is a personal decision and one that you have to decide for yourself. As such, I'd sooner live without the A/P (I flew my Aztec without any A/P at all for close to 300 hours) than switch to a single, even if it meant other goodies like turbo, etc.

To a more serious note: you know what you've got with your plane. Maybe your plane sucks (I don't think it does, but I don't know any details about it), and in that case you might be better off selling it. However if you buy another plane, you're almost certain to have some growing pains with it unless you know the plane and seller very well. As such, sticking with the devil you know principle, unless you are profoundly unhappy with your airplane and actually want something different, then you are probably better off sticking with this one and just making it better.

I can't remember what AP you have in it now, but if it's an Altimatic IIIB like mine, there's an autopilot shop in Hyannis that does great work. They turned my AP from not working at all to roll and pitch working, and the altitude hold is the only part that doesn't work. It cost way, way less than $30k for an S-Tec. I'm not sure I'd let them touch any other parts of my plane again, but the autopilot? You bet, I'll take it back there to let them get the altitude hold working.
 
Bryon, think about it. You really like having two. It's not about economy vs. speed. It's about feeling more comfortable with having a few more emergency lists that don't necessitate immediate landing.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I can't remember what AP you have in it now, but if it's an Altimatic IIIB like mine, there's an autopilot shop in Hyannis that does great work. They turned my AP from not working at all to roll and pitch working, and the altitude hold is the only part that doesn't work.
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Griffin Avionics - http://www.griffinavionics.com/

If Penn can't help me with my AP I'm going there. Plus side, Mary gets to spend time in Cape Cod, a win win for me.
 
Actually, I love flying twins. I believe that I could learn to like any airplane, though. I do like the idea of having an extra engine, which in most cases would allow me to land normally if one fails. (Of course, I did have to have an engine failure in the regime that doesn't allow for that, but I digress)

I have been to two avionics shops and got the same answer, too old, not supported, almost impossible to get parts, have to get some expensive parts just to find out if others still work, will continue to break down frequently, etc etc. It is an Altimatic I or II. An STEC 30 w/Alt hold plus several other panel mods came to around 26K installed. Of course that did include an Aspen unit because I wanted to add an HSI to the mix. Another more capable autopilot, which already included an HSI, was 24K installed.
 
You might want to consider a maintenence appointment at Mineral Wells, TX as the mfr can diagnose and replace what needs to be done, in one long day. BTDT.

My Century IIIb with altitude hold works very nicely now.
But, I do keep a roll servo, yellow tagged, on hand in my basement!
 
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Aztec Driver said:
I have been to two avionics shops and got the same answer, too old, not supported, almost impossible to get parts, have to get some expensive parts just to find out if others still work, will continue to break down frequently, etc etc.
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A number of years ago I worked for a company which had a 1967 C-320. The owner sunk quite a bit of money into trying to get the autopilot working properly. The avionics shop finally gave him just about the same story so he gave up. Of course he also pretty much turned over flying that airplane to me so he wasn't going to sink any more money into getting the autopilot working...

I have noticed with older airplanes, that the more complex they are with all that old wiring, the minute someone starts working on something, they manage to dislodge a wire and something else doesn't work. Newer airplanes can be a challenge too, but I've seen and been around enough older complex airplanes to be leery of ever owning one. Way too many parts to break and with a twin there are two of a lot of them.
 
GMascelli said:
Griffin Avionics - http://www.griffinavionics.com/

If Penn can't help me with my AP I'm going there. Plus side, Mary gets to spend time in Cape Cod, a win win for me.
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Yep, I just wasn't going to mention who it was originally since my airframe experience with them was less than favorable, and to my eyes they didn't make it right. But their avionics work? That was top notch.

Aztec Driver said:
Actually, I love flying twins. I believe that I could learn to like any airplane, though. I do like the idea of having an extra engine, which in most cases would allow me to land normally if one fails. (Of course, I did have to have an engine failure in the regime that doesn't allow for that, but I digress)
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Then to me that has your answer for you right there. Keep the Twinkie. Why do you want to learn to like something?

I have been to two avionics shops and got the same answer, too old, not supported, almost impossible to get parts, have to get some expensive parts just to find out if others still work, will continue to break down frequently, etc etc. It is an Altimatic I or II. An STEC 30 w/Alt hold plus several other panel mods came to around 26K installed. Of course that did include an Aspen unit because I wanted to add an HSI to the mix. Another more capable autopilot, which already included an HSI, was 24K installed.
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You quite probably went to two bad avionics shops. It was the same story with mine - the previous owner ripped it out, sent it to another autopilot shop, spent $3,500, and got back an autopilot that still didn't work. $1,500 later the Griffin guys had mine working well, now I just have to get the altitude hold working (needs some bench calibration). Another friend of mine with an Aztec had the same problem. He ended up spending the money on the S-Tec, but when he saw what luck I ended up having with mine he started kicking himself. I would give Griffin a try. Call them first and talk them about the problem you're having, and then leave it up there for a few weeks for them to mess around with. Just watch out for them on the airframe side. For airframe work I found their prices to be high and they didn't do the things I specifically asked them to work on and ignored my diagnosis. The autopilot guys are much, much better.

Keep the Twinkie, get it working right. You'll be happier.
 
Yeah, the extra 30K to get your Mooney doesn't include the 10-20% you'll spend on maintenance the first year.
 
OK Ok. You guys win. (real difficult, wasn't it?) I called Griffin Avionics today and was told the same as the other two places, so I will settle for that answer. I think I will get an STEC 30 with ALT hold and a few other goodies closer to the end of this year. Provided, of course, that my children let my bank account alone long enough to do something.
 
Well, if they said that your autopilot is dead, then I believe them.

Glad you're keeping the Twinkie.
 
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