G5 installtion progress [[Previously: Opinions on my panel]]

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
6,553
Location
KLZU
Display Name
Display name:
Priyo
planning dual G5 install and wanted to get some expert opinions from ya'll.

The Vacuum AI needs to stay since it provides for Century 2000 AP and since i cant get rid of the vacuum system, might as well keep the Vacuum Gyro. keeping the electric TC (well, because its working). so here is what i am thinking:

upload_2018-1-5_14-55-10.png

1. Vacuum AI moves to TC location
2. CDI comes out and goes on POA for sale with a pencil
3. TC and DG moves down below on the left side OR the TC moves to the CDI hole
4. I have a toggle switch via which I can change the AP to talk to either GNS 480 or with SL 30.
However, my avionics guy is telling me when G5 HSI is providing inputs to the AP this architecture
is not something FAA would like and not approved under STC ??

does it makes more sense to move the TC to the CDI location? or just keep it open for something else down the road? what ya'all think?

PS: yes it is an AOA Indicator on top of the AI :d
 
No expert here. I would:
-Move the AI to the TC location.
-Get rid of the TC (I only kept mine because it drives the yaw damper. With having two redundant AHRS G5's and the vacuum AI, I don't think you need it). If you really want to keep it, I'd go lower left as you depicted.
-I'd move the DG to the bottom CDI and get rid of that one.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will look great. Nice plane.
 
Another option is to move the AI to the current VSI indicator position. Leave the TC alone and delete or move the HI. I deleted the HI and VSI when the Aspen was installed.
 
Here’s my take. Leave everything as it is. Install the G5 where the AI is located and move the AI down to position 3 on your photo. No need to rearrange the others if you don’t need to.
 
Radar Contact said:
No expert here. I would:
-Move the AI to the TC location.
-Get rid of the TC (I only kept mine because it drives the yaw damper. With having two redundant AHRS G5's and the vacuum AI, I don't think you need it). If you really want to keep it, I'd go lower left as you depicted.
-I'd move the DG to the bottom CDI and get rid of that one.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will look great. Nice plane.
Click to expand...
i was thinking about the DG, but i dont want to keep it adjusted with the compass at all times and hence thinking to move it out of the scan area and use it only if needed (total electrical failure). the bottom CDI is connected to SL-30, thats staying. the top one is connected to 480, which i am getting rid of
 
Ryanb said:
Here’s my take. Leave everything as it is. Install the G5 where the AI is located and move the AI down to position 3 on your photo. No need to rearrange the others if you don’t need to.
Click to expand...
i believe as per the STC, the AI needs to stay in the 6 pack since the G5 AI is not a replacement for the vacuum AI, its a replacement for the TC
 
Clark1961 said:
Another option is to move the AI to the current VSI indicator position. Leave the TC alone and delete or move the HI. I deleted the HI and VSI when the Aspen was installed.
Click to expand...
the VSI needs to stay, G5 doesnt allow you to remove VSI
 
WannFly said:
i believe as per the STC, the AI needs to stay in the 6 pack since the G5 AI is not a replacement for the vacuum AI, its a replacement for the TC
Click to expand...
A single G5 can replace a vacuum driven AI, as long as the AI does not drive an autopilot. The G5 is certified to be a replacement, therefore, my original take on your panel still stands.
 
Clark1961 said:
VSI isn’t a required instrument so that’s a strange requirement.
Click to expand...
from what I understand, the STC lets your remove AI or TC (with restrictions like AI not driving AP and so on), it is secondary for everything else coming from Pitot-Static system so I guess one could argue removing VSI wont have any effect. Donno
 
Ryanb said:
A single G5 can replace a vacuum driven AI, as long as the AI does not drive an autopilot. The G5 is certified to be a replacement, therefore, my original take on your panel still stands.
Click to expand...
my AI runs the Century 2000 AP
 
WannFly said:
my AI runs the Century 2000 AP
Click to expand...
My apologies, somehow I missed that in the first post. Keep in mind the Century 2000 is a supported A/P with the GAD 29B interfaced G5. Get the unit, you’ll love it.
 
Ryanb said:
My apologies, somehow I missed that in the first post. Keep in mind the Century 2000 is a supported A/P with the GAD 29B interfaced G5. Get the unit, you’ll love it.
Click to expand...
yes sir, that's included in the install... no way I am missing out on GPSS :d:d
 
Ryanb said:
My apologies, somehow I missed that in the first post. Keep in mind the Century 2000 is a supported A/P with the GAD 29B interfaced G5. Get the unit, you’ll love it.
Click to expand...
Is to supported for attitude or heading? (Or both). I suspect it’s just heading and heading bug.
 
I would move the Altimeter and VSI to lower left position, and move the AI and DG to those spots.

The G5 will be your primary for Altitude and VS so moving the backups down should be okay. And with your backup AI right there is will be an easier fail mode than having to look down/left for attitude.

Also, why lose the CDI? if it can be fed simultaneously with the G5 I'd keep it for redundancy. [If you do sell it, PM me, I might have a spot for it in the PA32]
 
Clark1961 said:
Is to supported for attitude or heading? (Or both). I suspect it’s just heading and heading bug.
Click to expand...
If using the GAD 29B, the G5’s DG and HSI can link with quite a few 3rd party autopilots (I’d have to find the list) and as far as I know it only provides heading and course error, no attitude. I could be wrong on that, though.
 
I’d move the vacuum driven AI to backup position where CDI is, G5’s where AI and DG are currently. Keeps things as close to usual/current as possible.
Kind of what I plan except for now will just do AI G5 since my Sandel 3308 is playing nice lately (but it’s been warned).
 
Ravioli said:
I would move the Altimeter and VSI to lower left position, and move the AI and DG to those spots.

The G5 will be your primary for Altitude and VS so moving the backups down should be okay. And with your backup AI right there is will be an easier fail mode than having to look down/left for attitude.

Also, why lose the CDI? if it can be fed simultaneously with the G5 I'd keep it for redundancy. [If you do sell it, PM me, I might have a spot for it in the PA32]
Click to expand...
That's an interesting option. The reason I was thinking of not keeping the CDI is, I already have a HSI in the 480, if the G5 HSI dies, I have a backup, and in case of complete power failure, the G5 will still work in track mode.
About the altimeter, doesn't it has to be in the 6 pack? Not sure about the regs, but per the STC , G5 AI cannot be primary for ALT.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Ryanb said:
If using the GAD 29B, the G5’s DG and HSI can link with quite a few 3rd party autopilots (I’d have to find the list) and as far as I know it only provides heading and course error, no attitude. I could be wrong on that, though.
Click to expand...
That's my understanding too.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
About the altimeter, doesn't it has to be in the 6 pack? Not sure about the regs, but per the STC , G5 AI cannot be primary for ALT.
Click to expand...

Interesting. The 6-pack isn't a reg, it's something that evolved to make the scan easier. I'll be curious to see responses on that aspect of the question.
 
Ryanb said:
If using the GAD 29B, the G5’s DG and HSI can link with quite a few 3rd party autopilots (I’d have to find the list) and as far as I know it only provides heading and course error, no attitude. I could be wrong on that, though.
Click to expand...

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-10_11.pdf

There is no way any G5/GAD29B will drive altitude preselect. It will do heading, as it is a heading system. The only way the G5 HSI will display course and do GPSS is if hooked to Garmin GPS (GNS/GTN).

Right now there is no way to interface the G5s/GAD29(B) with any analog radio. Right now there is no way to hook multiple GNS/GTN to to either.
 
bnt83 said:
There is no way any G5/GAD29B will drive altitude preselect. It will do heading, as it is a heading system.
Click to expand...
As I said. Thanks

It does surprise me that it’s not capable of doing altitude..
 
WannFly said:
That's an interesting option. The reason I was thinking of not keeping the CDI is, I already have a HSI in the 480, if the G5 HSI dies, I have a backup, and in case of complete power failure, the G5 will still work in track mode.
About the altimeter, doesn't it has to be in the 6 pack? Not sure about the regs, but per the STC , G5 AI cannot be primary for ALT.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


If the HSI dies you still have CDI information on the attitude display. If the GAD29B dies you lose any CDI display information.

Don't forget the GMU11 magnetometer data displays on both the HSI and Attitude indicators. If the GMU11 dies, it will display GPS track instead. If you lose GPS (like GPS outage) and the GMU all you have left is the whisky compass and the attitude indicator (I believe)

Probably the most inconvenient failure is complete electrical power loss as the GMU11 drops offline along with any external GPS. Just for that reason we will not be hooking the attitude indicator to the GTN via RS232 but installing an antenna hooked to the attitude indicator's internal GPS receiver.

upload_2018-1-6_10-23-21.png
 
Last edited:
WannFly said:
from what I understand, the STC lets your remove AI or TC (with restrictions like AI not driving AP and so on), it is secondary for everything else coming from Pitot-Static system so I guess one could argue removing VSI wont have any effect. Donno
Click to expand...

Garmin wants you to keep the VSI
upload_2018-1-6_10-27-49.png
 
They need to be RETAINED and operable, but it doesn't say where they need to be located.
 
I'm thinking about using a digital all electric attitude indicator of a different brand entirely as a standby attitude indicator. Not really sure what its gonna be yet.
 
In the panel of my EXP I copied the Cirrus theory. PFD with all the stuffs and ****, with backup AS, ADI, and Alt below.

I think the alternators and 3 batteries need to fail before I can get into VFR conditions to get me in some trouble.

upload_2018-1-6_10-34-57.png
 
bnt83 said:
If the HSI dies you still have CDI information on the attitude display. If the GAD29B dies you lose any CDI display information.

Don't forget the GMU11 magnetometer data displays on both the HSI and Attitude indicators. If the GMU11 dies, it will display GPS track instead. If you lose GPS (like GPS outage) and the GMU all you have left is the whisky compass and the attitude indicator (I believe)

Probably the most inconvenient failure is complete electrical power loss as the GMU11 drops offline along with any external GPS. Just for that reason we will not be hooking the attitude indicator to the GTN via RS232 but installing an antenna hooked to the attitude indicator's internal GPS receiver.

View attachment 59093
Click to expand...
That's why I am keeping the vacuum DG. If everything else fail, complete power loss, no GPS etc, I can still fly by vectors from ATC via the vacuum DG.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Ravioli said:
They need to be RETAINED and operable, but it doesn't say where they need to be located.
Click to expand...
True. The g1000 equipped planes have the analog ones down below as well.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Ravioli said:
In the panel of my EXP I copied the Cirrus theory. PFD with all the stuffs and ****, with backup AS, ADI, and Alt below.

I think the alternators and 3 batteries need to fail before I can get into VFR conditions to get me in some trouble.

View attachment 59095
Click to expand...
That's one of my worries. I don't think my 5 yr old Concorde can provide 30 mins of power to everything on my panel. Wish there was an option to put in a 2nd battery like the 172 SP models.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
That's why I am keeping the vacuum DG. If everything else fail, complete power loss, no GPS etc, I can still fly by vectors from ATC via the vacuum DG.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Seems reasonable to me. You can always buy the next greatest gizmo to replace that DG when the vacuum pump fails.
 
WannFly said:
That's one of my worries. I don't think my 5 yr old Concorde can provide 30 mins of power to everything on my panel. Wish there was an option to put in a 2nd battery like the 172 SP models.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's why batteries are typically capacity tested. See Concorde battery manuals for details.
 
I don't have a vacuum system or mags... If the primary alternator fails I'm landing within 30 mins to sort it out. All the panel stuff on their standby batteries and the the backup alternator keeping the main battery, ignition and radio alive.

Scenario I hope to never need, but planned for.
 
WannFly said:
True. The g1000 equipped planes have the analog ones down below as well.
Click to expand...

Naah, they're all over the place. Diamond has them top center, Mooney has them on the right, etc... It's up to each airframer to certify their own setup with the G1000.
 
well... i had no idea this much stuff needs to come out to put 2 tiny little things in.....



20180122_163457.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top