Oops.

Dave Krall CFII said:
Gives me the willies watchin' that...!
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Yeah. I've discovered in a C150 you will run out of ground clearance before you run out of elevator.

Basically what happend is I was full stalling it onto the runway. I flew it down to about 6 inches above the runway like you can see and then just held it there and kept pulling the yoke back. There was no float at all. The descent rate was smooth. The touchdown was smooth. There just isn't enough ground clearance it seems with the tail...I three pointed the airplane onto the runway. Problem is, this wasn't a taildragger.

In a C172 you won't hit the tail. You don't even come close.

Oh well, Live and learn.
 
jangell said:
Yeah. I've discovered in a C150 you will run out of ground clearance before you run out of elevator.

Basically what happend is I was full stalling it onto the runway. I flew it down to about 6 inches above the runway like you can see and then just held it there and kept pulling the yoke back. There was no float at all. The descent rate was smooth. The touchdown was smooth. There just isn't enough ground clearance it seems with the tail...I three pointed the airplane onto the runway. Problem is, this wasn't a taildragger.

In a C172 you won't hit the tail. You don't even come close.

Oh well, Live and learn.
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I've seen quite a few SkyHawks with tail feathers &/or tail skids that have been dragged...
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
I've seen quite a few SkyHawks with tail feathers &/or tail skids that have been dragged...
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Yeah. I've seen it too.

I'm not sure how you would do that. Perhaps they were practicing their soft field technique on a hard runway and hit it.

Or maybe if you *REALLY* messed up on your flare.. Was way high, and then stalled it and came down hard on it.
 
Just yank that yoke back on a 172... I've seen people do this on both takeoff and landing. One was with 3 people in a 172 doing a soft field...
 
jangell said:
Yeah. I've discovered in a C150 you will run out of ground clearance before you run out of elevator.

Basically what happend is I was full stalling it onto the runway. I flew it down to about 6 inches above the runway like you can see and then just held it there and kept pulling the yoke back. There was no float at all. The descent rate was smooth. The touchdown was smooth. There just isn't enough ground clearance it seems with the tail...I three pointed the airplane onto the runway. Problem is, this wasn't a taildragger.

In a C172 you won't hit the tail. You don't even come close.

Oh well, Live and learn.
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you can - a guy did that to the one I was just going up to fly, took the tail ring right off. we checked it out thoroughly, it was fine to fly but still, ouch. you really gotta get that up high to do that.
 
woodstock said:
you really gotta get that up high to do that.
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..Yes.. you do.

I bet it was the slowest touchdown speed you could possibly do in a C150 though.

I'd put any airplane into a field the sameway in an emergency.

It's all about being aware of your height above the ground. When the airplane finally fully stalls. It's going to drop like a rock. You want that drop to happen at a few inches. Not 10 feet. When that tail hit the ground and the nose came down. The yoke was still all the way back. It was fully stalled.

Another flight..Another lesson...and some more experiance to go along with it.

I have that image of the nose and the horizon frozen in my head now. I'll never hit another C150 tail on the ground again.

One of the reasons I was trying to land the airplane so slow was that there was little drifts of snow all over the runway. I didn't want to stress the nosewheel hitting them.. So I was trying to slow it up as much as possible before the nosewheel would come in contact with them.
 
When I first starting learning to fly the CFI always wanted me to drag the tail tie down onto the runway in the Tomahawk. All of the schools planes had metal missing on the tail hook. I never understood why he wanted to do that. It seemed such a waste of a tail hook. But when I started flyign a 172 the CFI were alway impressed that I could agressively flair a Cessna during landing instead of landing flat.
 
Aw, don't worry about it. Although, IMO, there is no need for a full stall landing in C150s. Don't land flat, and don't land on the tail. touchdown at a reasonable speed. The most important thing is to touch down under control.
 
Taildragger training??

This thread shows why a rental aircraft sells for a lot lesss than a private owned and cared for aircraft.
 
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I've brushed my tail ring on the 150 once while doing a extended soft field take off practice roll (wheelie the legnth of the runway), it was for about a second, but it is the worst sound, hope to never hear it again.
 
NC19143 said:
Taildragger training??

This thread shows why a rental aircraft sells for a lot lesss than a private owned and cared for aircraft.
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Uh. I didn't say I was doing "taildragger training." If I want to do "taildragger training" I'll go rent a taildragger.

I was simply landing. I flared a little too much. The tiedown ring touched the runway. No biggy. Just kind of cool to have it on video I thought.

The thing about a rental aircraft is it is a training aircraft. That is why it sells for less. People learn to fly in it, No one is perfect. Everyone messes up. This isn't very shocking.

There are many private aircraft out there to where the tail was bumped agaisnt the ground. Look at tiedown rings of airplanes. A good portion of them will show wear from it.

I'm not taking shots at anyone else here, I just don't appreciate someone jumping to negative conclusions in my threads that do not accomplish nothing other then put someone down.

n20junkie said:
I've brushed my tail ring on the 150 once while doing a extended soft field take off practice roll (wheelie the legnth of the runway), it was for about a second, but it is the worst sound, hope to never hear it again.
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Yeah. It's not exactly pretty sounding.
 
Jesse, I'm glad you posted the video. People can learn from it. I have a few thoughts; take them for whatever they are worth to you:

The tailstrike itself isn't that big of a deal. To me, what is more important is landing under control. Full stall isn't really needed in many tricycle gear trainers, and you get better control if you land a few knots above stall (stall horn chirping). You seemed well under control, but some aircraft which aren't rigged so well might want to fall off on a wing at stall.

Another helpful approach in landing is to try to end up in the same pitch attitude at the moment of touchdown.

I can't really tell from the video, but it looked like you began the roundout a bit high--something I have to watch for in my landings, as well. I think you were smooth enough after the beginning of the roundout; you flared too much thereafter (as you know).

Unrelated to the tailstrike, you might try to limit power changes once on final to tiny ones. Again, I can't really tell, but from what I heard, it sounds like you might not be managing energy as well as you could. I was broke of that habit by learning to make a change and then wait to see the affect. Usually, one small change will do it, barring gusts or dramatic shear. Stabilizing that approach helps when you get to your flare.

(Now let's see how well I can do that! :eek: )
 
I don't trust this C-150 at all.. Which I why I made the reference in the video to it being the "flying coffin"

It just plain does not run worth a crap in the winter. I picked up carb ice without the carb ice. I then picked it up with the carb ice. Either way I lose. So I don't reduce power until the last moment.

In this landing you can see I was waaaay above the glideslope. This was due to that fact that I don't like bringing the power down until the last moment followed by 40 degrees of flaps.

On the start of hte runway you can see a snowdrift. It's about 2 feet deep and you'd be finished if you hit it. I went over this at about 10 feet or so and then brought it down to a few inches followed by the flare.

Having a wing drop in a full stall landing isn't a big deal. The thing about a full stall landing is the stall needs to happen about one inch above the runway. If you stall it high, yeah, a wing could drop.. Things could be ugly.

One of the main reasons as to why I was doing this landing full stall to the extreme like that was due to these snowdrifts on the runway. I didn't want to overstress the nosegear and hit them at speed. I wanted to land between them and then be able to slowly taxi through them.

I do appreciate any useful input anyone has. :)
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
I've seen quite a few SkyHawks with tail feathers &/or tail skids that have been dragged...
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For a long time, the tail ring on the club 172 was pristine, but I always check it. One day last summer, I noticed the bottom of the ring was ground away somewhat, so I spent a good deal of time looking at the rear fuse metal, playing the light against the metal, to look for any signs of deformation. None, and the plane still flies fine. Looked in the log book, and no one owned up to the tail strike.

One of the fun aspects of flying community aircraft. :hairraise:
 
what's all that white stuff all over the country side? ya'll have a sand storm or something? recent volcano eruption? :rolleyes: this socal boy wants to know! :rofl:

nice blue skies, tho.

btw, do you regularly fly without headsets? even if you're not using the radio, you should conserve your hearing. hearing loss is cumulative and not recoverable. think about it.

blue skies,
vic & N522A
 
alright, I've spent enough time looking, its time to ask. What is on the panel that looks like a video screen? Do you have a camera mounted on the front of the plane with a video display inside?
 
trombair said:
what's all that white stuff all over the country side? ya'll have a sand storm or something? recent volcano eruption? :rolleyes: this socal boy wants to know! :rofl:
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ha.. ha..ha.. I hate winter
trombair said:
btw, do you regularly fly without headsets? even if you're not using the radio, you should conserve your hearing. hearing loss is cumulative and not recoverable. think about it.

blue skies,
vic & N522A
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Nope. I was just taking someone up for a quick flight and didn't have a headset for them. So I went without it. It was only for about 15 minutes.
 
SkyHog said:
alright, I've spent enough time looking, its time to ask. What is on the panel that looks like a video screen? Do you have a camera mounted on the front of the plane with a video display inside?
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evidently you have not had the distinct pleasure of flying a C-150! that there, my friend, is a REAR VIEW MIRROR! this is so you can "check six" to prevent bird strikes from the rear. :rofl:

good friend of mine used to have a can of SPAM glued to the glareshield. subtle commentary.

blue skies,
 
jangell said:
In a C172 you won't hit the tail. You don't even come close.
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That's not true. I've had to replace the tail tie down ring of my Skyhawk SP twice. I have my plane leased back to a school. That's one of the drawback of the leasebacks.
 
trombair said:
evidently you have not had the distinct pleasure of flying a C-150! that there, my friend, is a REAR VIEW MIRROR! this is so you can "check six" to prevent bird strikes from the rear. :rofl:

good friend of mine used to have a can of SPAM glued to the glareshield. subtle commentary.

blue skies,
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wow - they have rear view mirrors? Crazy!!

Even more crazy: Its on the panel. Why not mount it up high where you can actually see behind you?
 
jangell said:
ha.. ha..ha.. I hate winter

Nope. I was just taking someone up for a quick flight and didn't have a headset for them. So I went without it. It was only for about 15 minutes.
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Disposable earplugs. Less than 50 cents per pair - available at most sporting goods stores.

I'll mention it again when you're 60, and you'll either thank me or say "It's 2:30". :D
 
MSmith said:
I'll mention it again when you're 60, and you'll either thank me or say "It's 2:30". :D
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We'll see about that. I won't be 60 for 42 years
:D
 
First, I'm curious about your flap setting on that landing. The nose seemd to be awfully high before the stall horn went off -- and I know it's a lot easier to skag the tail with flaps up than down (change in wing incidence angle reduces stalling pitch attitude for otherwise-same conditions).

Second, banging the tail is not something to be taken lightly. If you look at the back end of the plane, you'll see that the structure to which the tiedown ring is attached is not very substantial, and definitely not designed to take that much impact force. You may be shocked to find that repair to that area after a "little" tail strike can run ten hours or more of work including opening it up, removing the damaged parts, fabbing new sheet metal, installing, closing up, and writing up the 337 for this "major" repair. Further, the damage can be well hidden inside the skin. After a tail strike on landing (a "bang" like you heard on the video, not merely dragging the ring lightly after touchdown), an inspection by a qualified mechanic is essential for safety.
 
Ron Levy said:
First, I'm curious about your flap setting on that landing. The nose seemd to be awfully high before the stall horn went off -- and I know it's a lot easier to skag the tail with flaps up than down (change in wing incidence angle reduces stalling pitch attitude for otherwise-same conditions).

Second, banging the tail is not something to be taken lightly. If you look at the back end of the plane, you'll see that the structure to which the tiedown ring is attached is not very substantial, and definitely not designed to take that much impact force. You may be shocked to find that repair to that area after a "little" tail strike can run ten hours or more of work including opening it up, removing the damaged parts, fabbing new sheet metal, installing, closing up, and writing up the 337 for this "major" repair. Further, the damage can be well hidden inside the skin. After a tail strike on landing (a "bang" like you heard on the video, not merely dragging the ring lightly after touchdown), an inspection by a qualified mechanic is essential for safety.
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Flap setting was 40 degrees. Object of this landing was to land in a certian area on the runway that was free of snow, and to also land it as SLOW as possible to avoid stress on the nosewheel when it would impact the upcoming snow.

It wasn't a "bang" .. It was just a tap. The airplane was checked out and is fine.

If you watch the video you can see that the mains were basically down when this happen. Other then the tiedown ring hitting it was very very smooth and at at the slowest airspeed you could do.
 
jangell said:
In a C172 you won't hit the tail. You don't even come close.
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You might if the 172 was loaded to the aft CG limit. Not sure about that, but I know it makes a difference on takeoff WRT tail clearance.
 
Just keep these experiences in your head for when you obtain your CFI. You were trying to do something for the experience of it. Your students will be doing it but trying to kill you without knowing it. :no: At least now you will know adead of time that, "this path is not going to be good" kind of thing before your student does.
 
jangell said:
Flap setting was 40 degrees.
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I'm impressed -- it's almost impossible to skag the tail of a C-150 at that flap setting. You really had to work to do that.;)
 
The older straight tail 172's and 182's where you trimmed the entire horizontal stab rather than just a trim tab are EASY to tail skid--especially loaded anywhere close to gross and with the CG at the middle or aft.

My neighbor across the way who has the pristine '57 182 actually has a "spring loaded" anti-tail skid device. Can't draw a picture of it, but think of a big metal clothespin where the spring is situated to keep the clothespin firmly open rather than closed and you've got a sort of idea of what this thing is.

I've seen more modifications to rear tail rings on the older Cessnas than I care to count.

-JD
 
jangell said:
In a C172 you won't hit the tail. You don't even come close.
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Sure you can. At one flight school, 3 out of the 4 trainers had the tail rings ground down....
 
Hey. I lost this video and want to watch it again. It was kind of a cool video after all. Did anyone save this by chance?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Boy, this post really freaked me out until I realized this was an old thread! :hairraise: :(
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LOL - I mentioned that it would confuse some people, thinking it was a new post until they saw the dates.

Why is it that freaky?

edit: nevermind, I just read and remembered who Trombair was.
 
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Jesse:

See email.

I had saved it, intending to use it at POA Drive-In at Gaston's, but everybody was PilotCast-ing.

Maybe in '07?

/s/
 
So that's why I couldn't download the video:redface: . Well, that and I'm just dial-up at the apartment I stay at during the work week (just six months before I get to retire, then figure if I can ever fly again:D !!).

Hope we can all see the video, Jesse--for edification purposes, of course...

Good flying to y'all!

Jim
 
Ok, it's an old thread, but...

The Romanians must have had a problem with student tail strikes... the IAR has a skid plate on the bottom of the rudder AND a spring steel skid with a rubber cushion for a tail tiedown (those guys thought of everything :p ).
 
And..Here is the video thanks to Spike!

I'm not as perfect as I say I am:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wkGSTslqIzU

I have twice the hours now. I'm a little bit better. and I seem to **** people off on this forum a little less. I think we've made progress.
 
Shoot, Jesse - I see the problem, there! Your prop was going backwards about half the time! And it was REALLY SLOW!! :eek:!!

:)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Boy, this post really freaked me out until I realized this was an old thread! :hairraise: :(
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:( indeed, it freaked me a bit too. On another board I'm on, they "retire" handles when a member of the community passes on. I wonder if we could do the same at PoA?

A bit macabre, for sure.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
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