NSA no sense of humor

ron22

ron22

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Ron Hammer
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/...c-artist-challenges-national-security-agency/
Soon, he was having T-shirts emblazoned with the NSA logo accompanied by the slogan, “peeping while you’re sleeping.” Under the parodied emblem was the statement, “the only part of government that actually listens.”
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Now the good part
The agency ordered him to cease and desist and forced his T-shirts off the market
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Good for him
With the assistance of the Washington D.C.-based consumer advocacy group, Public Citizen, he’s suing the spy agency for violating his First Amendment rights
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He'll win for sure. Parody is explicitly not an infringement.

Then again... is it parody if it's true?

-Rich
 
I see the IRS going after him,one gov agency always covers another. Thought he did an excellent job on the Ts
 
bartmc said:
Infringement of what?
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I forget the details, but at one of the IP law for interwebz professionals seminars I attended, I learned that there are various laws that allow federal agencies to protect their logos. They're not exactly "trademarked," but legally they're treated in pretty much the same way; so the parody defense would be appropriate.

The confusion about this probably stems from the fact that the federal government is not allowed to copyright anything. But this is not a copyright matter. It's not a trademark matter either, technically speaking, but it's treated as such.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I forget the details, but at one of the IP law for interwebz professionals seminars I attended, I learned that there are various laws that allow federal agencies to protect their logos. They're not exactly "trademarked," but legally they're treated in pretty much the same way; so the parody defense would be appropriate.

The confusion about this probably stems from the fact that the federal government is not allowed to copyright anything. But this is not a copyright matter. It's not a trademark matter either, technically speaking, but it's treated as such.

-Rich
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Seems like anything put out by a government agency ought to be public domain. I'm not arguing with you, just saying it should be.



Also, are those t-shirts still for sale anywhere? :D
 
Heh. Years ago I was at NSA for a few days installing some equipment. They had a gift shop where you could buy NSA shirts, sweats, whatever. I thought that was pretty odd. One of the guys I was working with said they were told during orientation that they were not to draw attention to themselves by wearing NSA branded clothing but they still sell it. I asked him who buys the stuff if they weren't supposed to? He said contractors do, then go to bars and try to pick up girls.
 
cowman said:
Seems like anything put out by a government agency ought to be public domain. I'm not arguing with you, just saying it should be.

Also, are those t-shirts still for sale anywhere? :D
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I'm sure they are -- or will certainly be by morning.

As for the laws protecting federal logos, they seem to be contained in various sections of 18 USC Chapter 33. But except with regard to use of insignia for criminal purposes (for example, misrepresentation of oneself as a federal agent), I agree that it's absurd to afford protection to federal logos similar to that enjoyed by trademarks. When the use is clearly for parody purposes, it makes it even more so.

-Rich
 
cowman said:
Seems like anything put out by a government agency ought to be public domain. I'm not arguing with you, just saying it should be.



Also, are those t-shirts still for sale anywhere? :D
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Pretty much everything is. I know all photographs taken by the military that aren't classified are public domain.
 
Exactly how does the NSA "order" someone to "cease and desist"? Since when did NSA become part of the judiciary?
 
They can't, the article wasn't very clear about this.

A "cease and desist" letter is basically a legal threat. "Cease and desist this or we'll sue you" is the basic idea.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Exactly how does the NSA "order" someone to "cease and desist"? Since when did NSA become part of the judiciary?
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They're not, which is part of the reason I think the NSA gets a bad rap, to some extent. They're basically an intelligence and research agency with surveillance capabilities, operating under DOD jurisdiction. As such, they are part of the Executive Branch and, ultimately, they do what they're told.

So if what NSA does is unconstitutional and intrusive, we have to look at who's telling them to do those things.

-Rich
 
I cannot imagine this much controversy over the National Subcontractors Alliance.

logo-hot.jpg
 
People only get upset if the joke has an element of truth.
 
ClimbnSink said:
People only get upset if the joke has an element of truth.
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And No Such Agency has no sense of humor. I've known that for years when they didn't see the humor of a suggestion I made in a meeting they were hosting.
 
Ghery said:
And No Such Agency has no sense of humor. I've known that for years when they didn't see the humor of a suggestion I made in a meeting they were hosting.
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Was the suggestion anatomically impossible?

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Was the suggestion anatomically impossible?

-Rich
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Nope. It was a suggestion on how they could resolve a cost of publication issue for a document they put out every quarter. An unclassified document. I suggested that they classify it Confidential and leak it to Aviation Leak and Spy Technology Magazine and they'd publish it free ever quarter for them. They didn't think that was funny. Oh, and I have a friend who, it turns out, was in that same meeting and remembers my crack, so I have a witness. :D
 
We at the NSA have no sense of humor that we are aware of.
 
Matthew said:
Heh. Years ago I was at NSA for a few days installing some equipment. They had a gift shop where you could buy NSA shirts, sweats, whatever. I thought that was pretty odd. One of the guys I was working with said they were told during orientation that they were not to draw attention to themselves by wearing NSA branded clothing but they still sell it. I asked him who buys the stuff if they weren't supposed to? He said contractors do, then go to bars and try to pick up girls.
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"Baby, I heard on that phone call you had with your girlfriend on your cell phone last night that you just had a bad breakup. Want to go out tonight?" ROFLMAO.
 
When I was with the Defense Mapping Agency we began protecting the DMA logo. Otherwise anyone could put out a map or chart and identify it as one we made.
 
I think I see the problem here. In the news video link they made the statement that "anyone can use government logos in a parody as long as a reasonable person can identify it as an actual parody." I can understand an agency filled with bureaucrats having trouble finding a reasonable person within their ranks.

-John
 
I think John hit the answer. "actual parody" is is parody when it is just telling the truth :)
 
I imagine they can invoke the below. Also, I see no provision for "fair use", which is the concept under copyright law that would permit parody:

18 USC § 701 - Official badges, identification cards, other insignia

Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
 
alfadog said:
I imagine they can invoke the below. Also, I see no provision for "fair use", which is the concept under copyright law that would permit parody:

18 USC § 701 - Official badges, identification cards, other insignia

Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
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Another of our many laws that every citizen should be completely aware of at all times since it is illegal to use ignorance of the law as a defense in any courtroom. :nono:

-John
 
John Baker said:
Another of our many laws that every citizen should be completely aware of at all times since it is illegal to use ignorance of the law as a defense in any courtroom. :nono:

-John
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So I guess all those NASA meatballs we sell in the gift shop are illegal....

That law seems to be about forging identification. Let's not go overboard, eh?
 
Interesting analogous parody here, especially as regards profiting from "tarnishing the mark":

http://www.printmag.com/uncategorized/starbucks-design/

Excepting, of course, that the governing statutes in the NSA case are not the copyright laws. Strangely, I came across this article while searching for a vintage Starbucks coffee mug that I want to replace.

ConsumerWhore_1999.jpg
 
MAKG1 said:
So I guess all those NASA meatballs we sell in the gift shop are illegal....

That law seems to be about forging identification. Let's not go overboard, eh?
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I think the overboard-going has already occurred. I am just supposing what might have been in the C&D letter as justification and threat.
 
RJM62 said:
I'm sure they are -- or will certainly be by morning.

As for the laws protecting federal logos, they seem to be contained in various sections of 18 USC Chapter 33. But except with regard to use of insignia for criminal purposes (for example, misrepresentation of oneself as a federal agent), I agree that it's absurd to afford protection to federal logos similar to that enjoyed by trademarks. When the use is clearly for parody purposes, it makes it even more so.

-Rich
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I can't see any reason to offer trademark protection for something WE ALL paid for.

Stupid is as leftist, governmnet employees and anyone who thinks bill clinton, really didn't inhale, does.
 
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