NOTAM Request

[Len Lanetti]

This coming Sunday our Cub Scout Pack is running a rocket launch. All the scouts bring their Estes rockets. Leaders bring and ensure the safe operation of the rocket launchers. For about 2 or so hours the rockets will fly...some are advertised as going as high as 2,000 feet AGL. The site of the launch is within a few miles of an airport (within 3 miles of N99) and a helicopter pad (within 1 mile of N02). It is also within a mile of a Victor airway. I'm thinking that a NOTAM is in order especially since I think this weekend is Rotorfest at Brandywine (N99).

So, my question is, how do I go about getting a NOTAM issued.

Len

 

[gibbons]

The site of the launch is within a few miles of an airport (within 3 miles of N99) and a helicopter pad (within 1 mile of N02). It is also within a mile of a Victor airway. I'm thinking that a NOTAM is in order especially since I think this weekend is Rotorfest at Brandywine (N99).

So, my question is, how do I go about getting a NOTAM issued.

Len

Len,

I'd call someone at N99. Someone there has the authority to issue a NOTAM for that airport (at least they should have). They should be able to call FSS and get it done. If I remember correctly, the NOTAM can't be issued more than 48 hours in advance of the event.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Len,

I'd call someone at N99. Someone there has the authority to issue a NOTAM for that airport (at least they should have). They should be able to call FSS and get it done. If I remember correctly, the NOTAM can't be issued more than 48 hours in advance of the event.

Talk to John Taylor there (610 692-6100), Len. There is already a 5 mile TFR in place for the Rotorfest:

NOTAM Number : FDC 5/9326 XML Data
Issue Date : October 07, 2005 at 13:09 UTC
Location : Brandywine Airport West Chester, Pennsylvania near MODENA VORTAC (MXE)
Beginning Date and Time : October 15, 2005 at 16:00 UTC
Ending Date and Time : October 16, 2005 at 19:45 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : The Rotorfest 2005 airshow parachute jumps by the U.S. Army Black Daggers team
Type : Airshow
Replaced NOTAM(s) : N/A
Pilots May Contact : Philadelphia (PHL) Air Traffic Control Tower, 215-492-4100
Affected Area(s)
Airspace Definition:
TFR Center: 6 nautical miles from MODENA VORTAC(MXE) on the 053 radial (Latitude: 39º59'24"N, Longitude: 75º34'55"W)
Radius: 5 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to and including 10000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
October 15, 2005 at 16:00 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 12:00 EDT) - October 15, 2005 at 16:45 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 12:45 EDT)
October 15, 2005 at 19:00 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 15:00 EDT) - October 15, 2005 at 19:45 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 15:45 EDT)
October 16, 2005 at 16:00 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 12:00 EDT) - October 16, 2005 at 16:45 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 12:45 EDT)
October 16, 2005 at 19:00 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 15:00 EDT) - October 16, 2005 at 19:45 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 15:45 EDT)
Operating Restrictions and Requirements
No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).
Unless authorized by ATC.
Other Information:
ARTCC: ZNY - New York Center
Point of Contact: David Schultz
Telephone 610-724-3300
Authority: Title 14 CFR section 91.145

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I see such notams all the time - it can't be that hard to get done.
Be sure to have one or more official observers, usually someone with keen eyes (and I think ears are at least as important). All rocketeers must wait for the all-clear from this person before any rocket goes off. Needs a pre-flight briefing. A notam does not 'clear the skies' for anyone.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Ummmm, if there is already a TFR in effect, then they can't fly their rockets either.

Talk to John Taylor there (610 692-6100), Len. There is already a 5 mile TFR in place for the Rotorfest:

NOTAM Number : FDC 5/9326 XML Data
Issue Date : October 07, 2005 at 13:09 UTC
Location : Brandywine Airport West Chester, Pennsylvania near MODENA VORTAC (MXE)
Beginning Date and Time : October 15, 2005 at 16:00 UTC
Ending Date and Time : October 16, 2005 at 19:45 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : The Rotorfest 2005 airshow parachute jumps by the U.S. Army Black Daggers team
Type : Airshow
Replaced NOTAM(s) : N/A
Pilots May Contact : Philadelphia (PHL) Air Traffic Control Tower, 215-492-4100
Affected Area(s)
Airspace Definition:
TFR Center: 6 nautical miles from MODENA VORTAC(MXE) on the 053 radial (Latitude: 39º59'24"N, Longitude: 75º34'55"W)
Radius: 5 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to and including 10000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
October 15, 2005 at 16:00 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 12:00 EDT) - October 15, 2005 at 16:45 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 12:45 EDT)
October 15, 2005 at 19:00 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 15:00 EDT) - October 15, 2005 at 19:45 UTC (October 15, 2005 at 15:45 EDT)
October 16, 2005 at 16:00 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 12:00 EDT) - October 16, 2005 at 16:45 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 12:45 EDT)
October 16, 2005 at 19:00 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 15:00 EDT) - October 16, 2005 at 19:45 UTC (October 16, 2005 at 15:45 EDT)
Operating Restrictions and Requirements
No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).
Unless authorized by ATC.
Other Information:
ARTCC: ZNY - New York Center
Point of Contact: David Schultz
Telephone 610-724-3300
Authority: Title 14 CFR section 91.145

 

[ScottM]

This coming Sunday our Cub Scout Pack is running a rocket launch. All the scouts bring their Estes rockets. Leaders bring and ensure the safe operation of the rocket launchers. For about 2 or so hours the rockets will fly...some are advertised as going as high as 2,000 feet AGL. The site of the launch is within a few miles of an airport (within 3 miles of N99) and a helicopter pad (within 1 mile of N02). It is also within a mile of a Victor airway. I'm thinking that a NOTAM is in order especially since I think this weekend is Rotorfest at Brandywine (N99).

So, my question is, how do I go about getting a NOTAM issued.

Len

Since you plan on flying rocket over 1,200'AGL you do not need to just issue a NOTAM you also need and FAA waiver. You are planning on putting an object into controlled airspace you need to coordinate! BTW sport rockets are covered under FAR 101.

Here is a web link on how to do it. It is not really that hard.

Good luck!

http://www.nar.org/cabinet/waiverinst.html

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Since you plan on flying rocket over 1,200'AGL you do not need to just issue a NOTAM you also need and FAA waiver. You are planning on putting an object into controlled airspace you need to coordinate! BTW sport rockets are covered under FAR 101.

§ 101.1 Applicability.

(a) This part prescribes rules governing the operation in the United States, of the following:

(3) Any unmanned rocket except:

(ii) Model rockets:

 

[Ed Guthrie]

So, my question is, how do I go about getting a NOTAM issued.

Len

Call PHL FSDO. Most helpful if you wander out to the launch site with a GPS and note the LAT/LON coordinates prior to calling.

 

[ScottM]

§ 101.1 Applicability.

(a) This part prescribes rules governing the operation in the United States, of the following:

(3) Any unmanned rocket except:

(ii) Model rockets:

Ed you edited too soon, there was more that missed.

Had you looked a few lines further...
(ii) Model rockets:

(a) Using not more than four ounces of propellant;

(b) Using a slow-burning propellant;

(c) Made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic, containing no substantial metal parts and weighing not more than 16 ounces, including the propellant; and

(d) Operated in a manner that does not create a hazard to persons, property, or other aircraft.


Rockets that weigh more than a pound or go into controlled airspace are covered by part 101. The FAA considers flight into controlled airspace as a hazard to other aircraft.


The link I posted was from the National Rocketry Assocation page. There is also the Tripoli organization that specializes in high powered rockety. For a period of time I built and flew some pretty big rockets and had to file for these waivers. rest assured part 101 covers it, he will need a waiver, and a NOTAM will be issued.


Also so additional rules for rockets http://www.tripoli.org/documents/faa_rules.shtml

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Ed you edited too soon, there was more that missed.

I didn't miss it, I've just been to a few scout rocket launches. In general the scouts just don't bring the >1# weight behemoths.

Also so additional rules for rockets http://www.tripoli.org/documents/faa_rules.shtml

Yep, right up front in that reference:

"FAA Rules for Rockets
One pound (453 grams) rockets or less (including motor/engine weight); that are made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; with 113 grams or less of propellant have no restrictions (local restrictions may apply)."

 

[ScottM]

I didn't miss it, I've just been to a few scout rocket launches. In general the scouts just don't bring the >1# weight behemoths.



Yep, right up front in that reference:

"FAA Rules for Rockets
One pound (453 grams) rockets or less (including motor/engine weight); that are made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; with 113 grams or less of propellant have no restrictions (local restrictions may apply)."

I hear what you are trying to say. But as usually the FAA makes reading the FARs a hunting expedition.

(d) Operated in a manner that does not create a hazard to persons, property, or other aircraft.

If he is launching to 2000AGL that near a V-airway and other controlled airspace the FAA considers it hazardous to aircraft and requires a waiver.

I know a lot of the little ESTES rocket the scouts launch do not need the waiver.

He is also within 5 miles of the airport which also requires notification under part 101

(From the NAR)
Locate your launch site on the sectional. Then consider the following:

1. Are there any airports within 5 miles? If so, you'll need a waiver of Section 101.23(c), which addresses your proximity to an airport.
2. You'll also need a waiver of Section 101.23(b), which covers controlled airspace.
3. You may see a variety of wide straight blue lines on the map with arrows on them and letters like "V321" on the lines. These are airways, connections between radio navigation aids for airplanes under positive airspace control. Having any of these near your launch site makes the FAA nervous.

BTW a 1lb rocket is not all that big. Those ESTES Saturn V's require a waiver to launch but almost no one ever gets one.

 

[Len Lanetti]

OK...nobody get their panties in a wad...the rockets are made out of cardboard and plastic...they don't have enough mass or velocity to hurt anything or anyone and so I don't think they constitute a menace to aviation. Well, except for maybe some helicopters but they don't really count. ;<)

The pack has been launching these rockets for years from the same exact place without saying boo to anyone. I just happen to be the first schmoe to come along that even knows what a NOTAM is...anyway...I called FSS and asked...they gave me an 800 number to call on Friday before the launch on Sunday.

FYI 8 nautical miles on the 035 degree radial off of Modena VOR from 1300 local to 1700 local. Unmanned rocket launches to 2,000 feet AGL.

Side note...the FSS dude was very depressed...he figures he will be out of work in six months or less...I don't know what they had going for retirement benefits but what ever it was he said it was gone...I felt bad for the guy.

Len

 

[ScottM]

OK...nobody get their panties in a wad...

No wads, bunches, or other things. just having one of those fun what do the regs really say.

I keep bringin it up because post 9/11 has really destroyed model rocketry. These are multiple lawsuits going on from the rocket association and ATF over all the new regs that were put on to them, makes the ADIZ look like a birthday party. The gub'mint felt that those little rockets could be loaded with explosives and used to bring down airplanes and other dastardly deeds. The rocket guy as shall we say a bit twitching about breaking the rules these days. I actually left the hobby over it all.

Len: here are some local NAR guys in Penn that you might want to call for some guidence.

Pennsylvania


Pittsburgh Space Command (PSC) #473
John Pace
111 Crystal Springs Drive
Cranberry Township PA 16066
Phone : (724) 742-8690
Erie Rocketry Group (ERG) #543
Duane Wilkey
1605 South Shore Drive
Erie PA 16505
Phone : (814) 459-1156

Activities: Sport, competition, high power rocketry (levels 1 & 2); newsletter; building workshops; roadtrips to away launches Central Pennsylvania Rocketeers (CPR) #659
Thomas Ha
512 Chestnut St
Mt Holly Springs PA 17065
Phone : (717) 486-4922
Southern Pennsylvania Area Association of Rocketry (SPAAR) #503
C. Glenn Feveryear
PO Box 305
Delta PA 17314
Phone : (717) 456-5570
TA-Penn Manor (TAP) #647
Chris Land
206 E Charlotte Street
Millersville PA 17551
Phone : (717) 872-9189
North Eastern Pennsylvania Rocketry Association (NEPRA) #614
Drake Damerau
1007 Whippoorwill Drive
Clarks Summit PA 18411
Phone : (570) 586-8302
4th Gap Rocketeers #584
Herbert Estus
1041 Shickshinny Vlly Rd
Shickshinny PA 18655
Phone : (570) 542-5294

Activities: Sport, High Power, Demos for Kids Summer Camps.Meetings: NoneLaunches: The 4th Saturday of each month, April through September, 9AM - 5PM, see website for directions and map.HPR: Waiver to 7,000 AGL, New 300 acre flying field! Philadelphia Area Rocketry Association (PARA) #520
Chuck Arkens
2690 Diamond Street
Hatfield PA 19440
Phone : (215) 855-5599

 

[mgkdrgn]

Good sound logical reasoning ....

... But we still have an ADIZ and FRZ around Washington DC despite similar good sound logical reasoning.

All you need to have a real bad day is one fed looking to "make his bones" with what ever arm of DHS/FAA they work with.

OK...nobody get their panties in a wad...the rockets ...they don't have enough mass or velocity to hurt anything or anyone and so I don't think they constitute a menace

 

[Len Lanetti]

No wads, bunches, or other things. just having one of those fun what do the regs really say.

Ahhh, in that case (ie just having fun with what regs say)...no harm no foul. :<)

Thanks for the contacts.

Len

 

[Anthony]

Ahhh, in that case (ie just having fun with what regs say)...no harm no foul. :<)

Thanks for the contacts.

Len. Just fire the frickin rockets. I don't care, I don't live near there anymore.

Its amazing how our society and our gov't is destroying the ability to have ANY fun unless its "virtual" fun. Sigh. I blame the Soccer Moms!

 

[ScottM]

I am not sure will the FAA need to know about this rocket???

Pretty cool huh?

And yes it did fly!

As did this one

 

[Anthony]

Scott,

One of those rockets looks like a V-2!!! You didn't target London or anything, did you?

In college (of course where else?) we use to have rocket wars with the apartment building next to us. We acquired a large amount of basically, super-sized bottle rockets that we would launch through a plastic tube from a section of the vacuum cleaner. You know the solid plastic tube not the flexible tube. The diameter was just big enough to allow the rocket to pass through. We'd aim it like a Bazooka resting on our right shoulder. In the interest of "safety" whomever was launching (usually me) would wear my motorcycle helmet in case one of the rockets got stuck in the tube and blew up. We fired out of one of the windows and exhaust gases from the rockets were vented back into the apartment, so after the "battle" was over a fog hung in the air for a few hours. It was a lot of fun and always seemed like a good ideas after several beers. And nothing burnt down! Ahhhh college.....

 

[Skip Miller]

NOTAMs not necessary for these.... but I bet the local police would take notice!

-Skip

 

[ScottM]

Scott,

One of those rockets looks like a V-2!!! You didn't target London or anything, did you?

It was a replica, it went nowwhere near London

It was a lot of fun and always seemed like a good ideas after several beers. And nothing burnt down! Ahhhh college.....

Ahh bravery juice a thinking mans drink!!