Non-missed holds on the Garmin 430

[flyingcheesehead]

I tried to do this "correctly" today... And failed, I think. I filed KMSN -> IMMES -> KMSN so I could do a hold in the muck. I ended up with the 430 in OBS mode with the 102 inbound, so I had the inbound course depicted, but... Is that all the 430 can do?

I should have switched to the default nav page to see if it realized I was flying a hold. Hmmmm.

 

[poadeleted20]

The 430/530 only depict published holds. The best you can do for unpublished holds is what you did -- switch to OBS mode, dial in the inbound course, and fly it like an ordinary VOR (with a God's-eye view on the screen to help).

 

[gismo]

I tried to do this "correctly" today... And failed, I think. I filed KMSN -> IMMES -> KMSN so I could do a hold in the muck. I ended up with the 430 in OBS mode with the 102 inbound, so I had the inbound course depicted, but... Is that all the 430 can do?

I should have switched to the default nav page to see if it realized I was flying a hold. Hmmmm.

AFaIK the GNS-480 is the only GA GPS that can depict and provide course guidance for an arbitrary hold.

BTW the 480 tries to fly a "perfect" racetrack which is prety much impossible with strong crosswinds without using excessive bank angles.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The 430/530 only depict published holds. The best you can do for unpublished holds is what you did -- switch to OBS mode, dial in the inbound course, and fly it like an ordinary VOR (with a God's-eye view on the screen to help).

There is a published hold at IMMES, but I'm guessing to get the 430 to recognize it I'd have flown the ILS 21 approach first? Or is there a way to poke and prod to make it fly the published hold at an intersection? I guess maybe I could have activated the ILS 21 and done the "fly leg" thing (Direct, Direct, Enter)... I'll have to give that a try next time.

Is there a way to do holds that are published on an enroute chart?

The manual for the 430 is woefully inadequate on this subject, IMHO.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Kent:

With the 430/530 on can enter any intersection, VOR, etc and push direct to that point. On the direct screen, there is course information on the bottom right. You can scroll down to there and enter the inbound course to the fix you've entered and it will display an extended inbound course line. (BTW, I use this approaching airports buy entering a point from the end of the runway).

The only other thing I know of has been mentioned: use the obs mode unless it's a published hold.

For that, one would have to enter the approach; you then could delete the parts you didn't want.

Best,

Dave

 

[CJones]

Haven't tried this, just thinking out loud:

If you load the ILS approach (21 I think you said) that has the published hold as the missed procedure, could you then go into the FPL (flight plan) and scroll down to the "Hold at XXXX" and then press "Direct to"? Would that allow you to go directly to the hold procedure?

I'll have to tinker with it next time I'm out in the RV. Would be good to know.

-Chris

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Haven't tried this, just thinking out loud:

If you load the ILS approach (21 I think you said) that has the published hold as the missed procedure, could you then go into the FPL (flight plan) and scroll down to the "Hold at XXXX" and then press "Direct to"? Would that allow you to go directly to the hold procedure?

I'll have to tinker with it next time I'm out in the RV. Would be good to know.

-Chris

I ran this scenario in the 430 and 530 simulator, and it does indeed work. It won't let you remove legs of the approach in the FPL window, but you can go "direct-to" the holding pattern.

The simulator didn't do all that great a job of flying the hold, in fact it didn't really do it at all, but it did demonstrate you can go "direct-to" the published hold.

 

[CJones]

I ran this scenario in the 430 and 530 simulator, and it does indeed work. It won't let you remove legs of the approach in the FPL window, but you can go "direct-to" the holding pattern.

The simulator didn't do all that great a job of flying the hold, in fact it didn't really do it at all, but it did demonstrate you can go "direct-to" the published hold.

Sweet!

Next time I'm out, I'll let the a/p fly the hold and see how close it can hold the 'picture' view of it.

-Chris

 

[gismo]

Sweet!

Next time I'm out, I'll let the a/p fly the hold and see how close it can hold the 'picture' view of it.

-Chris

AFaIK, unless you have roll steering, the a/p cannot fly the hold without some help.

 

[poadeleted20]

AFAIK, the 430/530 will not fly the hold even if you have roll steering. When you cross the fix, the steering will take you directly back to the fix in the shortest direction -- it will not steer you through the entry or around the racetrack. The only way to fly the hold is to switch your autopilot from NAV to HDG when you cross the fix, use the heading bug to fly the outbound leg and start the turn inbound, and then switch the autopilot back to NAV once the nose is within 180 degrees of the inbound course. At that point, it will intercept the inbound course and fly you back to the fix, at which time you start the cycle over again -- select HDG, turn to outbound, wait for outbound time/distance, turn to inbound, select NAV, wait to cross fix, select HDG, etc.

If there's another way to do it, I'd like to hear it. However, the fact that the GPS goes into SUSP at the holding fix and will not cycle to the next point (unless it's a HPILPT, in which case it automatically cycles to the next point and won't stay in the hold) makes it hard to imagine how it would work.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I ran this scenario in the 430 and 530 simulator, and it does indeed work. It won't let you remove legs of the approach in the FPL window, but you can go "direct-to" the holding pattern.

Thanks Jason... That's what I was going to try next time in the airplane, though I didn't explain that very well.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the procedure would be:

1. Direct -> KMSN
2. PROC -> Select Approach -> ILS 21 -> VTF -> Activate
3. FPL -> Cursor -> scroll to "hold"
4. Direct -> Direct -> Enter (not Direct Enter Enter as when making new direct course to fix.)

Right?

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Thanks Jason... That's what I was going to try next time in the airplane, though I didn't explain that very well.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the procedure would be:

1. Direct -> KMSN
2. PROC -> Select Approach -> ILS 21 -> VTF -> Activate
3. FPL -> Cursor -> scroll to "hold"
4. Direct -> Direct -> Enter (not Direct Enter Enter as when making new direct course to fix.)

Right?

IIRC, I just hit <direct><enter><enter> but I'll have to try it again later.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

I ran this scenario in the sim again this morning. If you select "hold" and hit <direct><direct><enter> it will take you to direct to the holding fix (IMMES).

If you select "hold" and hit <direct><enter><enter> it will activate the hold (still navigates you to IMMES).

 

[gismo]

AFAIK, the 430/530 will not fly the hold even if you have roll steering.

You may be correct. I was assuming that since the 430 would depict a racetrack it would provide course guidance via roll steering for it and I have no way to test this with the simulator. I do know that the GNS-480 will fly a hold (at any waypoint no less) with roll steering , but that's a different animal.

 

[CJones]

You may be correct. I was assuming that since the 430 would depict a racetrack it would provide course guidance via roll steering for it and I have no way to test this with the simulator. I do know that the GNS-480 will fly a hold (at any waypoint no less) with roll steering , but that's a different animal.

I was betting on the a/p simply flying the "pink line" depicted on the moving map screen. Now that I think about it, when looking at the 'nav' page while doing a hold, it simply does show "direct to XXX" at all times......I think. Maybe this is giving me a good reason to go fly the RV after work.

-Chris

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I ran this scenario in the sim again this morning. If you select "hold" and hit <direct><direct><enter> it will take you to direct to the holding fix (IMMES).

If you select "hold" and hit <direct><enter><enter> it will activate the hold (still navigates you to IMMES).

You sure you have those straight? Direct Enter Enter means "Go directly to xxx" whereas Direct Direct Enter is the "fly leg" function which allows you to do things like intercept a particular holding course. Maybe it's different when you choose a hold.

If it is 1 Direct and 2 Enters... What happens with 2 directs and 1 enter with the hold selected?

 

[HPNPilot1200]

You sure you have those straight? Direct Enter Enter means "Go directly to xxx" whereas Direct Direct Enter is the "fly leg" function which allows you to do things like intercept a particular holding course. Maybe it's different when you choose a hold.

If it is 1 Direct and 2 Enters... What happens with 2 directs and 1 enter with the hold selected?

If you hit direct twice and enter once (2 directs, 1 enter) when "hold" is selected, it brings up the "Select D-> Waypoint" page with the holding fix, with the "activate" prompt blinking. (You would have to hit enter an additional time.)