Non-CFI flying jobs; where to look?

L

LFroese

Filing Flight Plan
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LFroese
I'm a low-hour pilot pretty much straight out of flight school (ATP-Denver, CO). I completed everything short of getting CFI certs. because 1) I don't have the desire to teach, 2) because I was fed up with ATP and their process of training pilots, and 3) my wife became ill after a trip to Thailand.

I've searched for non-CFI work but with the hours that I have it's basically impossible to do that. I'm the first in my family to enter the aviation world so any connections are basically non-existent.

I'm open to getting my CFI (actually have started some training) but am looking for advice/opportunities for someone in my situation.
 
Not yet in evidence is what ratings/experience you do have. Quality of responses will depend on that.
 
I know of two guys who took jobs on the ramp team at the local FBO and used that to earn income while they networked the contacts they made with the corporate pilots and the turbine/jet customers that stopped by. Both got good corporate flying jobs eventually. One for a doctors group, another for a petro-chemical concern.

So you might look into paying your dues on the ramp while looking for that first ladder rung.
 
I'm guessing you're sitting around 250 hours..?? You will need a big break to get a decent job with low time. You can possibly build some time flying skydivers if there's a dz around you.
 
Do NOT work the ramp or a dock, it's just sad and will not help you, can't log bag chucking time.

Look into drop zones, most want 500tt, but some will entertain a fresh CPL, glider towing, banner towing, of course those two may want tailwheel time which is the polar opposite from what ATP is all about.

You could also travel to Namibia and Botswanna and fly charter in 206, 210, GA8s, this would be ideal on your resume, but you'd have to get the job in person.

My first job wasn't a CFI gig, nor was my friends, it for sure can be done and don't get into CFIing if you're not a teacher type, you won't be doing anyone any favors.


Getting and really commuting to that first job is the real test of a CPL
 
I have acquired a significant amount of debt (~$70k).

I have 250 total hours;100 multi; 50 simulated instrument/7 actual
 
Try to hook up with an FBO ,that also does charter work ,get a second class medical,work the ramp and be available for last minute trips. You may build some time and meet people in aviation.
 
You have a good amount of multi time but your total time is low. For a lot of low time commercial flying gigs the magic number is 500 total time. Yeah there are jobs you can get with lower hours. I may suggest you look on places like airline pilot central's forum. They have a whole sub-forum dedicated to low time jobs available. Glider towing guys usually have some glider experience and have been around glider clubs a lot. From what I have heard most kinda want a guy that is gonna stick around awhile and isn't just using their equipment for their personal gain. Banner towing, aerial imaging/mapping, pipeline patrol, and skydiving come to mind with low time commercial jobs. With that much multi time you may try to find a skydiving outfit with a multi like a twin otter. I would think you could move up quick from their single engine to their multi.
 
frfly172 said:
Try to hook up with an FBO ,that also does charter work ,get a second class medical,work the ramp and be available for last minute trips. You may build some time and meet people in aviation.
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A VERY slow way to build time. 20 trips a year... Maybe??

Maybe can't even log it if it's 135 single pilot ops.
 
Kritchlow said:
A VERY slow way to build time. 20 trips a year... Maybe??

Maybe can't even log it if it's 135 single pilot ops.
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MauleSkinner said:
FTFY.
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Right.... I'm thinking there may be the occasional return empty leg to pick up an hour or two.

With low time the trips would likely be in a Navajo or similar. The legs two hours at most. Certainly not a time builder, and I just wouldn't waste my time.

Get your CFI. It really is the best pathway toward an aviation career.
 
Kritchlow said:
A VERY slow way to build time. 20 trips a year... Maybe??

Maybe can't even log it if it's 135 single pilot ops.
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Also I can't think of many 135s who would entertain having some fresh CPL jump on in.

As for a turbine DZ, magic number for that one is 1000tt.
 
Kritchlow said:
Get your CFI. It really is the best pathway toward an aviation career.
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Not to mention opening lots of doors to building legit time. Plus I've score a number of free airplane deals from happy students/clients.
 
Star Marianas Air hires low time guys, not sure how low time, I see them post for some sort of 172 tour pilot/CFI, so maybe look into that.
 
You need a camera job, or a CFI job. 1 year and you will have the Total Job in either of those to move on...

But I'll echo that if you don't want to teach, please don't..
 
Survey could be an option. Many require 500, but some will take you with a wet commercial (Air America may be one?).

If you do follow through with the CFI stuff (and I do suggest you do, even if you only do a little bit of instructing. The experience is some of the best a low timer can get) do know that you only need the CFI to get started working as an instructor and can add the II/MEI later on in case money is an issue since I know how ATP's program works (outside of ATP, I don't know of any flight school that will let a 250 hour MEI touch a twin due to insurance concerns). I was a CFI only for a couple years and added the II mostly so I didn't have to do a renewal, not because I needed it to work (I didn't make use of my II until well into my 3rd year of teaching).
 
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Its such a shame that ATP made you get 100 multi. Thats a killer to the wallet. 500TT is the magic number and be ready to move anywhere the job is. I did the ramp working thing. Thats because I enjoy the ramp and could go back to working the ramp tomorrow because I enjoy it so much.
 
250 hours is not enough experience to be teaching others. I have always felt that the CFI route to build hours did a disservice to the student pilot as you get an instructor who is just there to build hours, has no real interest in teaching and still lacks experience. My best instructors have been the older guys with thousands of hours. The young kids who went through the license mills were not worth a damn. If you look at other facets of aviation such as maintenance, the instructors are almost always older, experienced mechanics. I would bet that ATC is the same.

My advice would be not to go the CFI route, especially if you do not have the calling. As others suggest, try the drop zone, tow gliders or banners, do some ferries, etc.
 
SkyDog58 said:
250 hours is not enough experience to be teaching others. I have always felt that the CFI route to build hours did a disservice to the student pilot as you get an instructor who is just there to build hours, has no real interest in teaching and still lacks experience. My best instructors have been the older guys with thousands of hours. The young kids who went through the license mills were not worth a damn. If you look at other facets of aviation such as maintenance, the instructors are almost always older, experienced mechanics. I would bet that ATC is the same.

My advice would be not to go the CFI route, especially if you do not have the calling. As others suggest, try the drop zone, tow gliders or banners, do some ferries, etc.
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I think it depends on the person. I'm a CFI and I'm doing it to build hours towards the airlines or a corporate job. I love teaching and it's been a pleasant experience and I'm learning a lot. Sure you have the CFIs who are there to build time and don't give a crap about their students but you also have ones like me who are building time and also enjoying the experience.
 
jordane93 said:
I think it depends on the person. I'm a CFI and I'm doing it to build hours towards the airlines or a corporate job. I love teaching and it's been a pleasant experience and I'm learning a lot. Sure you have the CFIs who are there to build time and don't give a crap about their students but you also have ones like me who are building time and also enjoying the experience.
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I think it definitely depends on the person. I have not found that there is much correlation between age and quality other than the fact that there are not too many older people doing it to build time. There are older people who have somewhat antiquated ideas and techniques, however. I am speaking as an older person myself. There is also the issue of personalities meshing.

I will say that the best instructor I have had, outside of sim schools, was my primary instructor, who was in his mid 20s. I wasn't his first student but I was fairly close to it.
 
Everskyward said:
I think it definitely depends on the person. I have not found that there is much correlation between age and quality other than the fact that there are not too many older people doing it to build time. There are older people who have somewhat antiquated ideas and techniques, however. I am speaking as an older person myself. There is also the issue of personalities meshing.

I will say that the best instructor I have had, outside of sim schools, was my primary instructor, who was in his mid 20s. I wasn't his first student but I was fairly close to it.
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Exactly. I helped out with new hire instructor standardization a bit at my last instructing gig and came across some excellent, competent 300ish hour guys and some mediocre 1,000+ hour guys both in their abilities as a pilot and a teacher. You can't generalize based on age or flight hours.
 
DavidWhite said:
I know a couple places after you get 500tt that will hire you, after a year you will meet ATP mins
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This man speaks the truth. Several of my ground school class had 250-350 TT. Just be prepared to work for peanuts until your TT gets a bit higher.
 
I hope you're not anchored to the Denver area. Because of the altitude there's not as much "little" aviation there. It takes a pretty significant aircraft to work around there. I know, I mustered out the Marine Corps there with a boatload of helicopter time and very little FW time. I thought I was too cool to be a CFI as well but ended up doing it because it was really the only way in that neck of the woods to consistently build time. I ended up really liking it and still maintain my CFI to this day.
 
DavidWhite said:
I know a couple places after you get 500tt that will hire you, after a year you will meet ATP mins
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Yep, Yute Air is hiring at 500 hours. I got my start in 135 there. They will work ya until you quit or crash.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
Look for any FAR 135 outfit looking for first officers:

https://www.flyviaair.com/first-officer-pilots.php

http://www.ibcairways.com/employment

http://www.berryaviation.com/pilot-careers.html

http://www.keylimeair.com/about/careers/

Send resumes even if you don't have listed minimums. Be forewarned, a friend of mine is an examiner and the bust rate is really high at at least one of these places. It's tough to get a PIC type rating at 250 hours. Are you up to the challenge?
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Why would anyone be PIC typing a 135 FO?
 
SkyDog58 said:
250 hours is not enough experience to be teaching others. I have always felt that the CFI route to build hours did a disservice to the student pilot as you get an instructor who is just there to build hours, has no real interest in teaching and still lacks experience. My best instructors have been the older guys with thousands of hours. The young kids who went through the license mills were not worth a damn. If you look at other facets of aviation such as maintenance, the instructors are almost always older, experienced mechanics. I would bet that ATC is the same.

My advice would be not to go the CFI route, especially if you do not have the calling. As others suggest, try the drop zone, tow gliders or banners, do some ferries, etc.
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I, on the other hand, had some excellent young newbie instructors that easily got me through my advanced ratings. It's more the individual than total hours. That said, the high-time crop duster I did my private with brought a certain seasoned perspective to many aspects of training.
 
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