No more complex for Commercial?

Casting my mind back to when I was teaching commercial applicants, it took two hours or less to get the applicant fully conversant with the prop control and the gear extension/retraction system, including emergency extension. The remainder of the ten hours was devoted to polishing the commercial maneuvers in the complex airplane. I have a feeling that today's instructors will be able to make good use of the "advanced instrument training" hours to knock off any rough equipment/procedural edges.

Bob Gardner
 
I see the value in eliminating the complex - I don't see the value to the VFR commercial pilot in adding 10 hours of instrument work. Either a pilot is instrument rated (and proficient), or he's not. I suspect that someone didn't want to reduce the number of hours required for fear of accusations of compromising safety.

Now, if you asked me about combining the commercial and instrument curriculum, I'd say you could make someone capable of flying both rides with less dual than it takes an average pilot to do them in sequence. But that's not what's going on here.

Agree wholeheartedly -- combine the two or make the IR a prereq for the Commercial, but a compromise safety measure is pointless.
 
Casting my mind back to when I was teaching commercial applicants, it took two hours or less to get the applicant fully conversant with the prop control and the gear extension/retraction system, including emergency extension. The remainder of the ten hours was devoted to polishing the commercial maneuvers in the complex airplane. I have a feeling that today's instructors will be able to make good use of the "advanced instrument training" hours to knock off any rough equipment/procedural edges.

Bob Gardner

The bulk of my Comm dual was Lazy Eights and Turns around a pylon.

Lazy Eights with an indefinite horizon are tough!

(We started calling them "advanced instrument maneuvers" b/c every time we went up, it was hazy as Maryland in August).

:cool2:
 
Last edited:
Be interesting to see how many pilots slip through the cracks and get a job flying complex airplanes without a complex endorsement...;)

Personally, I know one guy with two jet type ratings and no high altitude endorsement.
 
I've never had a "High Altitude" endorsement either and I'm typed in one jet and one turbo prop.
Let me rephrase that...A guy who NEEDS a high altitude endorsement to act as PIC in the two jets in which he's typed.

I don't have one either, but I don't need one. ;)
 
Let me rephrase that...A guy who NEEDS a high altitude endorsement to act as PIC in the two jets in which he's typed.

I don't have one either, but I don't need one. ;)

Depends upon when he was typed and also the training program.

Sec. 61.31 - Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization requirements

(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who certifies the person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground training. The ground training must include at least the following subjects:
(i) High-altitude aerodynamics and meteorology;
(ii) Respiration;
(iii) Effects, symptoms, and causes of hypoxia and any other high-altitude sickness;
(iv) Duration of consciousness without supplemental oxygen;
(v) Effects of prolonged usage of supplemental oxygen;
(vi) Causes and effects of gas expansion and gas bubble formation;
(vii) Preventive measures for eliminating gas expansion, gas bubble formation, and high-altitude sickness;
(viii) Physical phenomena and incidents of decompression; and
(ix) Any other physiological aspects of high-altitude flight.


(3) The training and endorsement required by paragraphs (g)(1) and (g)(2) of this section are not required if that person can document satisfactory accomplishment of any of the following in a pressurized aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a pressurized aircraft:
(i) Serving as pilot in command before April 15, 1991;
(ii) Completing a pilot proficiency check for a pilot certificate or rating before April 15, 1991;
(iii) Completing an official pilot-in-command check conducted by the military services of the United States; or
(iv) Completing a pilot-in-command proficiency check under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter conducted by the Administrator or by an approved pilot check airman.
 
Back
Top