Nicotine addicts

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Clip4, Aug 28, 2022.

  1. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    I started a new student last week that honestly was my first smoker in over 30 years of instruction.

    They were very upset with the charge for pre and post ground instruction. Part of the issue they caused was their nicotine addiction where they needed a break for a cigarette about every 15 minutes. .5 preflight ground, cigarette break, preflight aircraft (commented about ash trays in plane), cigarette break, flight, cigarette break, before post post ground completed, cigarette break.
     
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  2. Gary Ward

    Gary Ward Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Gross!!

    I worked with a 3 pack a day smoker when I was a apprentice years ago. Times were different then...I spent a lot of time waiting while he smoked. I also had to travel with him for work and stay in the same motel room.

    I went to his funeral years ago...
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
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  3. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There's patches, lozenges, chew. Don't know if it would be appropriate to suggest that to him though. I'm a nicotine addict. Started when I was about 10. I haven't smoked for over 20 years now. I don't even try to quit nicotine anymore though. My body chemistry is to locked in to adjust. It mimics Norepinephrine. After a certain number of years on nicotine, the body loses the ability to make it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
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  4. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I can remember having a cigarette after my first solo,that was a different time when aircraft had ash trays and lighters. Havnt had a smoke in 44 years,just quit cold as no patch’s were available then.
     
  5. Gary Ward

    Gary Ward Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    So what is the law? Are you allowed to smoke in a GA aircraft?
    I see so many no smoking placards in today's newer planes.
    Every 15 minutes of anything will prevent you from getting much done.

    Were they upset because you were charging for your time while they smoked?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
  6. Dana

    Dana En-Route

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    The law says you can smoke if the pilot says it's OK.
     
  7. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had a cigarette after my first..........................................
     
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  8. rk911

    rk911 Line Up and Wait

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    this may not be worth the headaches. can you suggest he find another instructor?
     
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  9. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had a copilot who needed to take a last smoke while I the passengers and I loaded baggage. He was, um, unappreciative when I told him he had to help with bags.
     
  10. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route PoA Supporter

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    That sounds worse than insulin dependence. I'd drop the student like 3rd period french class, but that's me. A trainer plane is too close-quarters for that stuff to dissipate, and in addition to going home with his tar funk all over me, I think I'd have a headache from it after a typical 1.5 sesh, to say nothing of the ridiculous preflight behaviour already described.

    Dude should get a boat. Or learn to fly in something open-cockpit like a stearman.
     
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  11. Mason

    Mason En-Route

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    If he can't go a couple hours without a smoke, he doesn't have the control necessary to be PIC.

    -EX SMOKER 2PK/DAY
     
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  12. rhkennerly

    rhkennerly Pre-takeoff checklist

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    How bad do you need the hours/money? Be up front with him. If he can’t handle the extra charge for wasting your time, cut him lose.
     
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  13. geezer

    geezer Line Up and Wait

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    Tell the student that you had a headache after the lesson, you seem to be allergic to nicotine. Who is going to be flying the plane as they lights up? They are not a good prospect for PIC.

    Our club converted to no smoking in flight 40 years ago, when we realized that nicotine was condensing in the gyro instruments and ruining the bearings. Gyro life more than doubled.

    The members who could not comply left the club.

    Edited to remove sexually defined terms.
     
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  14. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Sounds like some boundaries were never set. Most airport facilities are completely smoke free, so I'm not even sure how this would be possible. If the student was willing to commit adhering to the rules, perhaps you could work with him or her.

    Regardless, as an instructor, someone who is "very upset" about pre and post flight briefing would have to find a new instructor who wasn't me, regardless of their nicotine addiction. I'm not here to haggle over my rate structure.
     
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  15. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    I going to determine if some of this is caused by anxiety starting flight training and it it doesn’t improve cut him loose.
     
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  16. O2 Birddog

    O2 Birddog Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I doubt it's illegal but nobody is going to smoke in the plane with me. If they light up one of us is getting out.
     
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  17. O2 Birddog

    O2 Birddog Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Exactly.

    "Sorry sir but you are paying for my time from arrival to departure whether we're in class, in flight or I'm waiting on you to finish a cigarette."
     
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  18. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My Maule had an A.D. requiring a no smoking placard, so it would possibly be illegal.
     
  19. saddletramp

    saddletramp Line Up and Wait

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    My how things have changed over the years. The CFI that I hired for most of my certificates & ratings in the 70s was a chain smoker. One after another. I remember during instrument training his smoke would linger under my hood. I probably could have logged actual!
     
  20. murphey

    murphey Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I had a CFI like that. Between the coffee addiction and the nicotine addiction, I fired him after the 2nd lesson. My plane, my rules.
     
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  21. martym

    martym Pre-takeoff checklist

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    How is this guy going to do a 2 hr cross country?
     
  22. kmacht

    kmacht Pre-takeoff checklist

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    He won’t be around for long as a student. My guess is that he will either not be able to pass a medical because of an illness caused by all that smoking or more likely he won’t have the money for flight training if buying that many cigarettes. My guess is money will be the cause if he is already complaining about ground instruction cost.
     
  23. Pinecone

    Pinecone Pattern Altitude

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    Wow, how did all those pilots in the past pass their flight physicals?

    The cost will depend on who much money he makes. But I remember meeting a couple at a resort in the British Virgin Islands. He had been a 4 pack a day smoker, she a 1.5 - 2 pack a day. Each week, they priced the brand they used to smoke, and put the money that would have been spent on cigarettes into their vacation bank account. This paid for a VERY nice vacation every 1.5 - 2 years.
     
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  24. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Line Up and Wait

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    Funny how things change. Yesterday’s normal is todays too stinky. Yesterday’s obese is today’s normal.
     
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  25. Justin Brady

    Justin Brady Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Wow this thread haha.
    I'm not a smoker and never have been but all the "this guys not pilot material if he smokes" is some total nonsense. "he probably can't pass a medical with all that devil smoke in him" seriously?

    Seems more attitude problem than anything else.
    Tell him to buy some nicorette and get to work on becoming a pilot. Tell him upfront that he's paying for your time, doesn't matter if he's learning or standing there smoking away his money it's still your time he's paying for.

    I wouldn't want to be confined in a small plane with him after smoking and I'd tell him just that, it's not pleasant and you're in charge. Smokers don't realize how strongly they smell which is always crazy to me. I can smell it as soon as they walk in a room 20 feet from me.
     
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  26. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Surprising, most of the smoking in this country is done by poor people. That's why cigarette taxes are so high here, they're poor and have no one to speak for them. I think everyone in Europe smokes, it's like a law or something. I can't recall that last time I met someone from Europe who didn't.

    They passed a law here a few years ago that you couldn't smoke in restaurants or bars. I applauded the restaurant thing, who wants to eat in the middle of all that stinky smoke? But bars? They're supposed to be smokey, it's part of the experience.

    Within the Steinholme anyone smoking is assumed to be actively on fire and dealt with accordingly.
     
  27. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Yes, you are, although very few people or companies will let you. I'm only aware of one charter operator that will allow it.
     
  28. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    No Smoking placards may indicate there are no ash trays, and in that case smoking in it would likely be illegal.

    There are 135 operators buying STCs to install ash trays, rewire the "No Smoking" signs to allow them to be switched off on brand new jets that were sold as no smoking only.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I enjoy the now smoke-free bar that I grew up eating at. I neve supported the full-on anti smoking crap and never in my life expected to see that bar non-smoking. They did build a covered area on the back where they can smoke. I believe the same laws mandated moving the video lottery machines out of the main eating area too.
     
  30. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    2 adults, work it out.
     
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  31. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    I am always amused by when people complain about cigarette smokers. But then go smoke a cigars. It’s like cigars are good because they are classy, but cigarettes are trashy.
     
  32. martym

    martym Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Haha. Are you not suggesting a nicotine alternative or pathway toward quitting as well? Perhaps step one is finding out if they are interested in either?
     
  33. Gary Ward

    Gary Ward Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I had a instructor who loved coffee, luckily he was not a smoker. Coffee breath was pretty bad but I think in the long run he was worth it?
     
  34. Justin Brady

    Justin Brady Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No I'm not, not my business nor do I care if they want to smoke.
    OP is their CFI not their life coach.
    I'm suggesting a way to intake some nicotine so they can remain a functional human while trying to learn to fly a plane haha. I've seen people really in a bind while jonesing for a ciggarette to the point of making really poor decision. Some nicorette in your pocket can help without filling the cabin with smoke haha
     
  35. Deelee

    Deelee Pattern Altitude

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    Same! Luckily, they knew they had the coffee-breath and always chewed gum. Even joked about it.

    upload_2022-8-29_11-1-59.png
    pretty much just nicotine. not like tobacco dip with those side-effects.
     
  36. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I'm overweight and a serious caffeine hound, but I've never had to interrupt a preflight inspection to quickly suck down a bigmac and iced tea.

    There are vices, and there are disruptive vices. I can dislike smoking, but it doesn't affect me as a CFI unless you can't function without it for the 2 hour lesson duration.
     
  37. cowtowner

    cowtowner Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    The inherent bigotry against people that smoke on this thread is deep. But as the one guy said, you all sit around and smoke cigars to make yourself feel superior.

    I smoke and I'd put my tax return or net worth against anybody on this board (to the guy that said that only poor people smoke or the guy that said he will quit because he can't afford the lessons).

    The OP has a choice, it's a free world. His student also has a choice to tell you to bugger off.
     
  38. Gary Ward

    Gary Ward Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Not all of us smoke cigars, I don’t think I have ever smoked one?


    I did try smoking when I was a teenager and didn’t like it. Then in my early 20s I watched my boss smoke all day and night long I knew smoking was not for me.
     
  39. rhkennerly

    rhkennerly Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It would be interesting to know the backstory to that No Smoking placard in the Maule. I'd never thought of them as "gas bombs," unlike some Beavers I'd known with all those tanks and valves.
     
  40. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I would never feel superior to someone who spends gobs of money to give themselves cancer, make themselves and everything around them stink and raise the cancer risk of anyone in the vicinity of their smoke. Why would I do a thing like that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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