New Toys

[Michael]

I purchased a new laptop today, decided it was either that or a new 396. the laptop won this time.


Inspiron 9300 Intel® Pentium® M Processor 760 (2 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB)

Display 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen UXGA Display with TrueLife™

Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz 2 Dimm

Video Card 256MB NVIDA® GeForce™ Go 6800

Hard Drive 100GB Hard Drive

AC Power Adapters Spare AC adapter (Power Cord) - 90w

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 + Single TV Tuner and Remote

Network Card Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem

CD/DVD Drives 8x CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer write capability

Wireless Networking Card Intel® PRO/Wireless 2915 Internal Wireless (802.11 a/b/g, 54Mbps)


Hope to have it in hand soon. Ill let ya all know how good it is. Looks great on paper.

Michael

 

[MSmith]

I bought the same a month ago, with a nearly identical configuration (I bought XP Pro and Office Pro, and the 80GB 7200rpm HD). It's a good box.

Out of the box, you'll notice that graphics look lousy in Internet Explorer. I found the fix online and I'll look for it again if you wish - it's one registry entry.

The other thing that I found is that using the laptop keyboard, I sometimes bumped the mouse area below the keyboard and in windows like this one in the forums, it puts the cursor someplace else while I'm typing.

Feel free to ask other questions.

 

[Iceman]

I have the same system too...love it. Heavy but the screen is wonderful. Photoshop cs2 went on yesterday and life is good.

You used the 40% off coupon right?!?

 

[Michael]

I have the same system too...love it. Heavy but the screen is wonderful. Photoshop cs2 went on yesterday and life is good.

You used the 40% off coupon right?!?

Used the $600 dollars off coupon, then found one for 750 off, but i already applied the 600 one. dont know how to change it. Its already been billed.


Michael

 

[Iceman]

I'm not sure how much your system was...the 600 off might be a better deal. If however the 40% of coupon (71GRJ4ZVZMDWMJ) gives you more off just call dell and cancel your order and reorder it with the above coupon.

Good luck!

 

[MSmith]

Ditto to Chris. I used a 35% off coupon when I bought.

 

[C-1 PILOT]

If you guys don't mind, how much was it? also, are you happy with it? I'm in the market now and you seem to have it spec'd out nicely.


Where does one get the coupons? I'm looking to buy in September.

 

[Michael]

If you guys don't mind, how much was it? also, are you happy with it? I'm in the market now and you seem to have it spec'd out nicely.


Where does one get the coupons? I'm looking to buy in September.

Mine was:
[font=arial, helvetica] Unit Price: $3,321.00

After Coupon:
[/font] Sub-Total
$2,749.00 Shipping and Handling
$101.00
Tax
$24.92Total
$2,874.92

Coupons can be found at http://www.slickdeals.net/category/computers/

 

[Iceman]

If you guys don't mind, how much was it? also, are you happy with it? I'm in the market now and you seem to have it spec'd out nicely.


Where does one get the coupons? I'm looking to buy in September.

Sent you a pm.

 

[Brian Austin]

While I buy my company laptops and desktops from Dell, my personal computer is from PowerNotebooks.com. Decent prices, non-major brands, great service. My laptop would have cost $4K+ at Dell. I picked it up for $2700. Operating system is an OPTION!

I'm due for a new one this fall, too. Screen on this one is starting to darken up a little. Can't imagine why after two years of almost daily, 10-12 hour use.

 

[MSmith]

Mine was similarly priced to Michael's but the coupon brought it below $2500.

I generally buy top of the line when I buy, expecting it to last 5 years before it's old and slow.

 

[Brian Austin]

I generally buy top of the line when I buy, expecting it to last 5 years before it's old and slow.

Easy to say when you're in a home only or office only environment. But my laptop is both home and work. It has gone up 60-foot towers to be balanced on a knee while aligning a microwave link. I've used it outside in rain, snow and harsh sun, covering it with a towel or blanket as needed. It's played the part of both attacker and attacked in network security tests (and attacker can take a LOT of resources).

I tend to abuse my stuff from continuous use. Two years at avg 8 hours per day, 340 days per year (conservative estimates) = 5,440 hours of use...probably closer to 7,000 as its often left on overnight for whatever reasons.

It's still faster than most stuff out there. P4-2.8GHz, 1Gb SDRAM, 80Gb HDD, DVD-R/CD-RW, 10/100/1000 NIC, 15.4in 1600x1200 resolution screen. Battery life is still good to 2.5 hours or so. I specifically chose external wireless cards for network analysis (need WLAN drivers that allow direct access to promiscuous mode stuff).

 

[PoAdeleted5]

deleted.

 

[MSmith]

Easy to say when you're in a home only or office only environment. But my laptop is both home and work. It has gone up 60-foot towers to be balanced on a knee while aligning a microwave link. I've used it outside in rain, snow and harsh sun, covering it with a towel or blanket as needed. It's played the part of both attacker and attacked in network security tests (and attacker can take a LOT of resources).

No doubt. My laptop is primarily going from home office to family room, with occasional trips outside the house in a nice backpack. Different mission, different requirements.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Slightly more expensive than a 17" PowerBook with the same drive/ram/dvd burner/wireless, etc.

Thanks for pointing this out, Larry... I was going to do what I did last time I bought a PowerBook and spec out a Dell as close as it could get to a PowerBook and see the cost difference. My last PB saved me a good $400 over the "equivalent" from Dell.

Actually, what prompted me this time was Brian's post about h ow "expensive" PowerBooks were in another thread. Simply not true. My new PowerBook is waiting for me as soon as I get home!

Oh, and it will have "all of the above" plus 1.5 gigs of RAM, the wicked-cool backlit keyboard, Bluetooth, the slick (and durable) Aluminum case (no Plastic laptops for me! and the best operating system there is. (Haven't crashed in years; no virus, worm, or spyware problems...) Oh, and I almost forgot the 60-gig iPod Photo, which I already have (it shipped earlier, the PowerBook was a custom build). The iPod has all of my music and pictures on it and still has 42 gigs free, I'll be using it to back up my hard drive.

OBTW, Apple just bumped up to 4th place on the list of top computer makers. Gateway, HP, and Dell to go.

Soon, I'll have to do the Apple vs. Dell price comparison. I'll post the results.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Thanks for pointing this out, Larry... I was going to do what I did last time I bought a PowerBook and spec out a Dell as close as it could get to a PowerBook and see the cost difference. My last PB saved me a good $400 over the "equivalent" from Dell.

How well do XP applications work on Apples these days? My last exposure was in the early days of the PowerPC and I was somewhat underwhelmed. I like Apples, but what has held me back is the prospect of reinvesting in all the software, kinda like switching from VHS to DVD.

 

[Iceman]

How well do XP applications work on Apples these days? My last exposure was in the early days of the PowerPC and I was somewhat underwhelmed. I like Apples, but what has held me back is the prospect of reinvesting in all the software, kinda like switching from VHS to DVD.

It depends what kind of software you have. Some companies like adobe will allow you to trade in your software for the apple version...I think you need to have the current version of the software for them to do it.

 

[Iceman]

Actually, what prompted me this time was Brian's post about h ow "expensive" PowerBooks were in another thread. Simply not true. My new PowerBook is waiting for me as soon as I get home!

Oh, and it will have "all of the above" plus 1.5 gigs of RAM, the wicked-cool backlit keyboard, Bluetooth, the slick (and durable) Aluminum case (no Plastic laptops for me! and the best operating system there is. (Haven't crashed in years; no virus, worm, or spyware problems...) Oh, and I almost forgot the 60-gig iPod Photo, which I already have (it shipped earlier, the PowerBook was a custom build). The iPod has all of my music and pictures on it and still has 42 gigs free, I'll be using it to back up my hard drive.

Oh man here we go again...
I will look at your model with a 17 inch screen $2700 with no options. A dell configured the same way with the same memory/video card/hard drive/processor speed would cost you $1200 including a 40% discount. Michael did not use the proper discount...last time I heard he was calling dell to change his price to ~2000 which has a much faster processor than apple/ibm can produce, a larger video card etc etc.

 

[Brian Austin]

Actually, what prompted me this time was Brian's post about h ow "expensive" PowerBooks were in another thread. Simply not true. My new PowerBook is waiting for me as soon as I get home!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here but I have never commented on the price of any Apple products. I don't KNOW how much they are. My rule is if you don't know something, keep your mouth shut.

I have made other comments regarding Apple products but nothing regarding price. Please show me where I said it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

How well do XP applications work on Apples these days? My last exposure was in the early days of the PowerPC and I was somewhat underwhelmed. I like Apples, but what has held me back is the prospect of reinvesting in all the software, kinda like switching from VHS to DVD.

Ken,

What do you use? Usually when I ask that question I get "Well, I use the Internet but I really need Microsoft Office so I can't use a Mac." Huh? MS Office has a Mac version too. In fact, at least Word and Excel and possibly PowerPoint as well were all out on the Mac long before Windows even existed!

If you use some kind of specialty software that is not available on the Mac and has no Mac counterpart, you can use Virtual PC. It'll be slower than a real PC because it currently has to translate PowerPC code to Intel code and that in itself takes a fair amount of processing power. However, if you have a reasonably fast Mac and you're not trying to play a game or do something else processor-intensive, it'll still run at a reasonable speed. Besides, with all of the extra time you'll have not having to deal with spyware and viruses and such, you can wait a bit.

If you want to e-mail me and let me know what types of software you use, I'll let you know what the deal is. shook@culverad.com

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news here but I have never commented on the price of any Apple products. I don't KNOW how much they are. My rule is if you don't know something, keep your mouth shut.

I have made other comments regarding Apple products but nothing regarding price. Please show me where I said it.

Sorry Brian, I thought it was you... I'd have to go dig through the thread again. Actually, maybe it was Chuck... It was one of the folks who just got a 9300.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Oh man here we go again...
which has a much faster processor than apple/ibm can produce, a larger video card etc etc.

I'll deal with the rest of this post later, but... "Much faster processor" based on what? Megahertz (or Gigahertz) is NOT a measure of processor speed, simply a measure of clock speed.

FWIW, I think the laptop processors were what caused Apple to switch to Intel, IBM had stagnated a bit. Of course, now IBM released a new laptop processor. It'll be interesting to see if Apple comes out with something that uses it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Besides, with all of the extra time you'll have not having to deal with spyware and viruses and such, you can wait a bit.

Heh... I almost forgot:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mc/20050804/tc_mc/firstfamilyofwindowsvistavirusesunleashed

Windows Vista (AKA Longhorn) isn't even going to be released for at least another year, and already there are viruses written for it!

 

[Ken Ibold]

Ken,
What do you use? Usually when I ask that question I get "Well, I use the Internet but I really need Microsoft Office so I can't use a Mac." Huh? MS Office has a Mac version too. In fact, at least Word and Excel and possibly PowerPoint as well were all out on the Mac long before Windows even existed!

Primarily Word, but also Acrobat Pro, Pagemaker, Photoshop, Quark -- four high dollar programs if I have to buy new versions. My Acrobat is 6.0, but the other three are older versions. Most of the other stuff I use is part of the Windows bundle, and I presume also part of the Mac bundle as well. I'm also using CorelDraw and an open-source clone of Excel, which aren't as expensive to replace.

 

[Brian Austin]

My Acrobat is 6.0, but the other three are older versions.

So is Acrobat. 7.0 came out a few months ago.

 

[Brian Austin]

Heh... I almost forgot:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mc/20050804/tc_mc/firstfamilyofwindowsvistavirusesunleashed

Windows Vista (AKA Longhorn) isn't even going to be released for at least another year, and already there are viruses written for it!

Vista isn't going to have the impact that XP did in the client/home computer world. Windows users will have to upgrade eventually but aside from 64-bit processing and some security features, it's really more of a visual and functional change than anything else. Flashier graphics, different techniques to access functions, built-in stuff for some basic anti-virus and spyware, more control over what things get installed when accessing web pages, etc.. Aside from the graphics, all of it is available using either third party apps or adjusting computer management techniques (such as not making your primary user account a local administrator or power user).

I don't think the Vista rollout is going to experience the integration numbers that XP did. I know I'm not changing for quite a while at my office.

And to maintain backwards compatibility, many of the existing viruses would work with it anyway. This isn't news.

A quick search on the Security Focus website shows three vulnerabilities found in July for Apple's Mac OS X. Every operating system has its issues. Apple just hasn't penetrated the market enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[Iceman]

A quick search on the Security Focus website shows three vulnerabilities found in July for Apple's Mac OS X. Every operating system has its issues. Apple just hasn't penetrated the market enough to make it worthwhile.

That is the ONLY reason why apple does not have problems with hackers...they will not be able to hurt large businesses. In my opinion it is just another way to attack the USA/other developed countries way of life.

 

[Iceman]

I'll deal with the rest of this post later, but... "Much faster processor" based on what? Megahertz (or Gigahertz) is NOT a measure of processor speed, simply a measure of clock speed.

FWIW, I think the laptop processors were what caused Apple to switch to Intel, IBM had stagnated a bit. Of course, now IBM released a new laptop processor. It'll be interesting to see if Apple comes out with something that uses it.

The above might have been true with P4 systems but with the new centrino systems run similar based on clock speed.

If you want some performance numbers lets look at games which are the most demanding programs for computers...

Unreal Tournament 2004
(Longer bars indicate better performance)

In frames per second​

Power Mac G4-1.25GHz

22.49​

PowerBook G4-1.67GHz 17-inch

22.13​

iBook G4-1.33GHz 14.1-inch

12.78​

PowerBook G4-667GHz 15-inch

11.82
​

​

3D gaming performance (Longer bars indicate faster performance)

Atari Games/Epic Games Unreal Tournament 2004​

Dell Inspiron 9300

46​

HP zd8000

44.99​

Dell Inspiron 9200

44.2​

Gateway m680

42.08​

​

I realize that most people do not play hardcore games on their laptops but performance is performance.

NOTE: I like the powerbook...it's smaller/lighter and better looking. However, IMO the powerbook/apple is not the end all (nor is dell/windows) Different strokes for different folks.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The above might have been true with P4 systems but with the new centrino systems run similar based on clock speed.

Two computers which have the same processor will have performance roughly proportional to clock speed. My point was that comparing Intel to PowerPC based on clock speed is completely invalid.

I realize that most people do not play hardcore games on their laptops but performance is performance.

Even running the same program on two different computers isn't necessarily a valid comparison. It depends on how much time the programmers spent optimizing the software for each system. Even though they look the same, they're basically two different programs.

In addition, fps in a game is much more dependent on video hardware than actual processor performance, and the numbers you quoted did not specify what type of video hardware was installed. (I ordered the upgraded video card so I can drive my brother's 30" LCD Apple Cinema Display, in case he ever decides to give it to me. )

NOTE: I like the powerbook...it's smaller/lighter and better looking. However, IMO the powerbook/apple is not the end all (nor is dell/windows) Different strokes for different folks.

Yup. Some people have to run Windows-based software day in and day out. Others like to play lots of games (there are games on the Mac, but not as many). To those people, I say buy Windows. To the rest of the world, BUY MAC!

Certain professions such as graphic design, lawyers, etc. have a much higher percentage of Macs than the general population. Good for them. However, the vast majority of the general population SHOULD be buying Macs. If all you do is word processing, Internet browsing, etc. like most folks, then there is no reason to buy Windows and many reasons to buy a Mac (fewer viruses/spyware, stability, ease of use, yadda yadda yadda).

I find it amazing what the idiots in computer stores don't know. They are ignorant of the advantages of Macs, and they fear them, and when customers ask about them the store employees say things that are completely untrue about Macs to try to get the customer to purchase a windows machine. I've seen someone in a computer store try to sell a customer a $4000 top-of-the-line Windows system for word processing and e-mail! (Commission, anyone?)

Therein lies the heart of the problem. I'm guessing that computer stores get a higher profit on Windows-based systems. I know that when I used to sell Macs, the profit margin was abysmal. My profit on an iMac was EIGHT DOLLARS. I also knew that if I sold them a Mac I wouldn't get as much follow-up business from them. (As I've posted before, average time between calls from Windows customers was 3-4 weeks, average time between calls from Mac customers was 6 months.) However, the right machine is the right machine and I would not lie to my customers to make an extra buck off them.

Boy, can I ramble or what?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A quick search on the Security Focus website shows three vulnerabilities found in July for Apple's Mac OS X. Every operating system has its issues. Apple just hasn't penetrated the market enough to make it worthwhile.

True, but with OS X 10.4.2 there is only one remaining vulnerability (that just was published 8-1-05). By default, Software Update will download and install the updates, with your permission required on system updates to prevent hackers from being able to "update" you.

Nothing is 100% secure. It's in the attitude of the company. MS has a poor attitude towards security. Apple fixes things quickly and makes it easy to install the patches (it's actually harder to NOT install them on the Mac).

Another thing that helps the Mac is that it's based on UNIX which has been around and beaten up by hackers since the early 70's. The big problems have been fixed.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Primarily Word, but also Acrobat Pro, Pagemaker, Photoshop, Quark -- four high dollar programs if I have to buy new versions. My Acrobat is 6.0, but the other three are older versions. Most of the other stuff I use is part of the Windows bundle, and I presume also part of the Mac bundle as well. I'm also using CorelDraw and an open-source clone of Excel, which aren't as expensive to replace.

Ken,

I can't find sidegrade info from either Adobe or Microsoft. I do believe they offer such things though. Quark, I don't know about. Quirk has always been a royal pain in the @$$ when it comes to, well, anything. That's probably a large part of what has made InDesign successful. If you only own Photoshop, I think there's a very reasonably-priced upgrade to the entire Creative Suite which might be good for you. (That includes Acrobat as well.)

I'll ask around and see what I can find out. At the very least, the software you use is available on the Mac.

http://pcbuyersguide.com/hardware/systems/is-your-next-PC-a-Mac.html
http://www.apple.com/switch/

 

[Brian Austin]

True, but with OS X 10.4.2 there is only one remaining vulnerability (that just was published 8-1-05). By default, Software Update will download and install the updates, with your permission required on system updates to prevent hackers from being able to "update" you.

Nothing is 100% secure. It's in the attitude of the company. MS has a poor attitude towards security. Apple fixes things quickly and makes it easy to install the patches (it's actually harder to NOT install them on the Mac).

Another thing that helps the Mac is that it's based on UNIX which has been around and beaten up by hackers since the early 70's. The big problems have been fixed.

I had a long response typed up and realized it's pointless anyway. Mac vs PC argument has just as much validity as right vs left. Present whatever arguments you want but you really don't change each others mind.

Your logic re: Microsoft's security is behind the times...as is your knowledge on how the OS works and why the kernel is rarely the vulnerability.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I had a long response typed up and realized it's pointless anyway. Mac vs PC argument has just as much validity as right vs left. Present whatever arguments you want but you really don't change each others mind.

Ah, but it is not die-hard PC user's mind I want to change, grasshopper. I say these things with the hope that some novice user out there won't listen to the idiot at the computer store next time they go shopping and will seek out someone who is knowledgeable on both platforms so they may make an educated decision as to what to purchase. IE "Hey everyone, the Mac IS worth a look."

Your logic re: Microsoft's security is behind the times...as is your knowledge on how the OS works and why the kernel is rarely the vulnerability.

I never said it was logical. That is just my impression of M$. And you are correct - The worst vulnerabilities in Windows aren't even really Windows. Outlook and IE, on the other hand...

 

[Brian Austin]

I never said it was logical. That is just my impression of M$. And you are correct - The worst vulnerabilities in Windows aren't even really Windows. Outlook and IE, on the other hand...

Heh...again, behind the times. Most of them have been fixed. More publicity about Firefox's vulnerabilities than anything else lately.

There really hasn't been anything BIG in the news re: MS security issues for a while now. Exploit possibilities? Sure, just like Apple's. But no one can spin something out there fast enough to take advantage of it before it's fixed by MS. Most of the time, it's an exploit that requires NO firewall or anything running since those ports tend to be blocked by default anyway. And if you're running on the Internet with no firewall, that goes well beyond a Mac/PC issue. That's just plain stupid.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Most of the time, it's an exploit that requires NO firewall or anything running since those ports tend to be blocked by default anyway. And if you're running on the Internet with no firewall, that goes well beyond a Mac/PC issue. That's just plain stupid.

Amen... The problem is just that Windows is stupid by default! Couldn't resist that one

Got the new PowerBook. Much the same as the old one only it's made of civilian airplane metal instead of military airplane metal. Oh, and the screen works, and it's more durable, and faster and stuff.

It also has some new-to-me toys: Bluetooth, DVD burner, etc. I haven't really had a chance to do much with those yet. Looking forward to playing around with 'em a bit.

The backlit keyboard is the coolest thing EVER. There's actually an ambient light sensor somewhere. If I'm in a room with the lights on the screen is bright. If I turn the lights off the screen fades down to low brightness and the keyboard backlights fade in. Man, NOBODY can waste CPU cycles on visual effects the way Apple can!

And Michael, I've gotta apologize for hijacking your thread, if you're even still reading it! I made the exact same decision you did (laptop instead of Garmin 396). Sigh... Maybe next year. Hope you're enjoying your new toy as much as I am!

 

[Michael]

And Michael, I've gotta apologize for hijacking your thread, if you're even still reading it! I made the exact same decision you did (laptop instead of Garmin 396). Sigh... Maybe next year. Hope you're enjoying your new toy as much as I am!

No worries
I am still waiting on mine
And I wish mine came with a backlight for the keyboard...But Im just happy its not a mac

Michael