New student - CFI checkout

M

MikeLima

Pre-Flight
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
91
Location
Missouri
Display Name
Display name:
MikeLima
Intro: Newly registered 50 year old who has been lurking for a few months and have a desire to learn to fly. I have read all the threads I can find about advi e for new students, however, I still have a few questions that I was hoping I could get answered here.

First: I have a introductory flight/meeting scheduled with the only CFI I can find within 30 miles. I know he is a Gold seal instructor and that he ran a 141 school for several years and now is on his own. Lessons would be in the only rental plane available which is a 150/152. Rate is cheap. Other than that, I know little and don't really know if that info is very relevant. The next nearest cfi is 1.5 hours away so I need him to work out for me. Other than making sure of the obvious things (scheduling will work, doesn't seem under the influence, speaks English, etc) what are things I should be asking/checking?

Second: my future in flying is recreational. I have toyed with the idea of just going for light sport as a first step. If I decide to go that route, I would be taking lessons with the cfi above in the Cessna for awhile and then transitioning to an airport 1.5 hours away where the nearest lsa is available to finish up. I realize this will prob add some flight hours to training but thinking the time and money I save getting up to speed locally will still put me ahead (lsa lessons are 50% higher and an extra hour drive each way). What problems will this cause me, if any? Reasons for lsa consideration is that I imagine almost all my flying will be limited to max of one passenger and I'm color blind and may end up limited to day flying anyway.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

ML
 
If he's gold seal that a good sign, at least he has been a busy CFI and had a 80% first time pass rate, also the folks who get their gold seal tend to go a little above and beyond.

If you qualify for a medical, just get your PPL, it's not much more work and is a international reconginized liscense, allows you to fly more planes, just better.
 
Go get a medical as soon as possible. I'm not sure what the color blind causes for issues, somebody will be along that can speak to that.

Getting lessons close will be a big benefit to keeping you on track and on pace to finishing. 3 hours of driving, round trip, would be a grind.

Go for the private if you can, no since having LSA limitations if you can pass the physical exam.

If the CFI has as much experience as it sounds, he will probably work out fine if you can stand his personality. Probably good he isn't drunk, but hell, that may make him more entertaining...... ;-)


Go for it. Have fun.
 
Hi Mike. Where in Missouri are you? If you are near the SGF area, I might could point out some other options.
 
Thanks for the input so far. Please keep it coming.

Cooter143: thanks for the offer but I'm on the opposite side of the state near Poplar Bluff.

ML
 
JoseCuervo said:
Go get a medical as soon as possible. I'm not sure what the color blind causes for issues, somebody will be along that can speak to that.

Getting lessons close will be a big benefit to keeping you on track and on pace to finishing. 3 hours of driving, round trip, would be a grind.

Go for the private if you can, no since having LSA limitations if you can pass the physical exam.

If the CFI has as much experience as it sounds, he will probably work out fine if you can stand his personality. Probably good he isn't drunk, but hell, that may make him more entertaining...... ;-)


Go for it. Have fun.
Click to expand...

Color blind, presuming you're actually color blind, will be a no night flight or color gun restriction.

Check this out, many folks who fail the ishara are not colorblind.

http://www.color-blindness.com/color-arrangement-test/

How much does the LSA plane rent for?

LSA really isn't a savings on hours, it's not a international reconginized liscense, doesn't allow you to fly a lot of stuff. Personally I'd rather have a restricted PPL than a LSA ticket.
 
Last edited:
Try to go for the PPL.

Use the search function for to find posts from Dr. Bruce Chken on color blind or color blindness. Essentially, you need to be able to distinguish the various marks on a sectional chart and the different colors of a light gun and demonstrate this to an FAA inspector. Both can be done with practice using a CFI who knows how to help you.

Getting the medical done sooner than later is a good idea. But don't go until you are 100% sure you are going to pass with no speed bumps or roadblocks. This includes all health conditions, not just your vision.

And if your AME uses the Ishara plates for checking color blindness and does the test with office fluorescents as the illumination source, he is setting you up for failure right off. The plates were designed for sunlight. So ask for the test to be conducted near an outside window or out in the parking lot.

Some articles that might help you:

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2012/January/1/Answers-for-Pilots-Color-vision

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources...ation-Center-Vision-Color-Restriction-Removal
 
I am relatively certain that I have a deficiency. Was told so when I joined the navy back in 1984 - first failed on the plates and then had further testing with some lights. Can't see the numbers in the green plates but do fine with the red ones. In practical life, I can see green. However, the farther away I am from green lights the more they look white instead of green. I rarely see green in fireworks, for instance. Traffic lights are green unless I am a long way away and then they look more white.

Can someone elaborate on what will happen if I take my medical and the doctor does confirm I have a color blindness issue?

Will he approve me with the restriction of no night flying until I can have a chance to prove my ability or will I be unable to receive the medical clearance until I do something else?

ML
 
Do the search function as I suggested and read the articles... your answer is in the first article.
 
MikeLima said:
I am relatively certain that I have a deficiency. Was told so when I joined the navy back in 1984 - first failed on the plates and then had further testing with some lights. Can't see the numbers in the green plates but do fine with the red ones. In practical life, I can see green. However, the farther away I am from green lights the more they look white instead of green. I rarely see green in fireworks, for instance. Traffic lights are green unless I am a long way away and then they look more white.

Can someone elaborate on what will happen if I take my medical and the doctor does confirm I have a color blindness issue?

Will he approve me with the restriction of no night flying until I can have a chance to prove my ability or will I be unable to receive the medical clearance until I do something else?

ML
Click to expand...


No night flying, no instrument flying.
 
MikeLima said:
Intro: Newly registered 50 year old who has been lurking for a few months and have a desire to learn to fly. I have read all the threads I can find about advi e for new students, however, I still have a few questions that I was hoping I could get answered here.

First: I have a introductory flight/meeting scheduled with the only CFI I can find within 30 miles. I know he is a Gold seal instructor and that he ran a 141 school for several years and now is on his own. Lessons would be in the only rental plane available which is a 150/152. Rate is cheap. Other than that, I know little and don't really know if that info is very relevant. The next nearest cfi is 1.5 hours away so I need him to work out for me. Other than making sure of the obvious things (scheduling will work, doesn't seem under the influence, speaks English, etc) what are things I should be asking/checking?

Second: my future in flying is recreational. I have toyed with the idea of just going for light sport as a first step. If I decide to go that route, I would be taking lessons with the cfi above in the Cessna for awhile and then transitioning to an airport 1.5 hours away where the nearest lsa is available to finish up. I realize this will prob add some flight hours to training but thinking the time and money I save getting up to speed locally will still put me ahead (lsa lessons are 50% higher and an extra hour drive each way). What problems will this cause me, if any? Reasons for lsa consideration is that I imagine almost all my flying will be limited to max of one passenger and I'm color blind and may end up limited to day flying anyway.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

ML
Click to expand...

I am a PPL in process, having started in Dec 2014. at the time, I placed the closed proximity of an airport and it having a tower as chiefly important because I wanted to get lots of experience with radio communications. since then, and with hindsight, I now rate the compatibility of the instructor and the age of the fleet of aircraft the school has as very important. I have flown with 6 instructors and of the 6 , 3 were Jerks in the cockpit. just flat out jerks. I have flown at 2 schools now and there can be a big difference in the age of the aircraft you fly in. you have more choice over the instructors you fly with than the age of the aircraft, so pick your instructors wisely and remember that compatibility PLUS instructor competence will take you a lot further. if you have plenty of like minded instructors(a rarity), then call around or if their flying school websites are updated, and find out the age of their fleet. also I prefer fuel injected 172's to carburetor but that's getting really picky
 
Mike Farlow:

Thank you for your suggestion to read the links you posted. However, I had already read them and my understanding did not change upon my re-reading them at your suggestion. I usually do understand what I read and this time doesn't appear to be any different.

As you will note, this was not my original question and I only became concerned that I was missing something as a result of your post wherein you advised not to take the medical until I was absolutely sure there were no speed bumps or road blocks. I assumed that you were addressing my issue with color blindness as something to be resolved before I go for the physical because I have no other health issues. Apparently I was mistaken and instead of answering my question, you decided to take a foray into an area about which I had no concern.

Nonetheless, I do thank you for taking the time to post information which you believed might be helpful.

ML
 
Wow... how were those urine flavored cheerios this morning? You need to curb the attitude when you're trying to join the formation and get the answers you seek.
________________________________________________

Too often we have first timers come to us with medical issues who them bomb into the AME's office and get denied, deferred, or into a back and forth info request death spiral.

Therefore, most of us here are big advocates of not going to an AME and participating in a live FAA Medical exam until you know with 100% certainty that you will pass. Much like a trial lawyer never asking a question of a witness he doesn't already know the answer too.

Going in unprepared and letting the AME surprise you with a denial means you lose all flying privileges. Deferral will just add a 6-8-12 week delay to receive a letter asking for more information, to which you must respond in 60 days of mailing, and then wait another 6-8 weeks for them to review the info. If they aren't satisfied, you're sent a letter for more info. Rinse/repeat until they have the info.

If you want the absolute final answer, reach out to either Gary Crump at the AOPA Pilot Information Center, or your regional flight surgeon.

And you misinterpreted my "own your medical" statement. I was communicating that if you are at risk for any other serious health conditions, or you answer YES to any of the parts of question 18 of the 8500-8 form, then you need to get these items squared up to FAA Standards before going for a live exam with the FAA.

Color Blindness isn't something that is correctable, I get that. But what is not in evidence at this time is any other "question 18 items" are part of your medical history. See the attached file for the general help on filling out the 8500-8 form via MedXpress and the Question 18 items specifically.
________________________________________________

You had asked:
Can someone elaborate on what will happen if I take my medical and the doctor does confirm I have a color blindness issue?
Click to expand...

The answer is: "If you fail the color vision test in the AME’s office, you can still fly, but with a limitation – no night flying or color signal control." Color signal control means the light gun signals a tower controller will use if are not able to communicate with them by radio.

You also asked:
Will he approve me with the restriction of no night flying until I can have a chance to prove my ability or will I be unable to receive the medical clearance until I do something else?
Click to expand...

The answer is covered in the same article, you will be given the medical, but with the limitation. To remove the restriction, you will be required to pass an operational color vision test (OCVT) that is administered by an inspector from the local Flight Standards Safety Office (FSDO, pronounced Fizz-doh). This test has two components:

(a) A signal light test administered at an airport air traffic control tower; and

(b) A practical test in which you must read and correctly identify colors on aeronautical charts.

Upon successful completion of both elements of the OCVT, the aviation safety inspector will issue a letter of evidence and a medical certificate with the limitation “3rd Class Letter of Evidence.”
 

Attachments

  • MedXPressUsersGuide.pdf
    2.1 MB · Views: 0
Alright, I get it: you are smart; you are a pilot; I'm not and may never be. You know more about the whole process than I do. That may read as if I'm being sarcastic but it isn't meant to be. That's why I came here for some information. Your last post was chocked full of good information and that's why I am here. If your first response to my request for clarification on that issue had been so helpful, we wouldn't be discussing my urine flavored cheerios.

I certainly didn't mean to come off as unappreciative. I was merely attempting to point out that your shortness in addressing me in the manner you did was misdirected as I didn't ask for info on the colorblindness issue and your insertion of it into my thread caused me to question what I "thought" I already knew. I was attempting to defer to those on here with far greater knowledge than I possess and felt you were castigating me for that deference. If you post was not made in that tone or manner, then that's my fault.

In short, (too late for that) I don't have an attitude that is need of curbing. I came here asking for very specific info. Not because I know everything else, but because I have already read what I can find on every other issue that I have questions about at this time. My head is spinning with all of the stuff I don't know, so I'm trying to go a step at a time and my next step is meeting the cfi. I need to know what I need to find out about him and I need to know whether or not starting with him in a Cessna is going to cause any significant problems if I switch to lsa after a period of time.

I most humbly apologize. May I join your formation?

ML
 
Best of luck and Bless your heart.
 
I'm no expert on the medical issues so that is for someone else to address.

I can say with regards to the instructor, the most important thing is that you get along with the guy. Almost all of them can teach you to fly safely, but if he gives you the creeps, or annoys you, or is a jerk, or makes you tense and uncomfortable in the cockpit, any of those things can potentially be a stumbling block to your learning. I'm speaking from a little bit of experience here. You just don't want to go to a lesson dreading that "I have to fly with this guy again".... You're only hurting your own progress, and you're cheating yourself out of money and time.

Take a few lessons and if you two are meshing well, great. If not, run away.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Best of luck and Bless your heart.
Click to expand...

Incase the OP never lived in the south, let me translate lol


giphy.gif
 
Thanks for the help everyone. Excited to get started today and I am hoping for the best.

James: I simply refuse to believe that. It's been my experience that people always say exactly what they mean.
 
Good luck. Relax and enjoy the flight and I would suggest not having high expectations. If you haven't been at the controls before, things can feel different than you anticipate. I didn't enjoy my intro flight because I had an idea that it was as easy as it looks and got frustrated. After a few flights though, things started clicking. I'd be curious to hear what you think of it.
 
MikeLima said:
Mike Farlow:

Thank you for your suggestion to read the links you posted. However, I had already read them and my understanding did not change upon my re-reading them at your suggestion. I usually do understand what I read and this time doesn't appear to be any different.

As you will note, this was not my original question and I only became concerned that I was missing something as a result of your post wherein you advised not to take the medical until I was absolutely sure there were no speed bumps or road blocks. I assumed that you were addressing my issue with color blindness as something to be resolved before I go for the physical because I have no other health issues. Apparently I was mistaken and instead of answering my question, you decided to take a foray into an area about which I had no concern.

Nonetheless, I do thank you for taking the time to post information which you believed might be helpful.

ML
Click to expand...

A couple of points that Mike was trying to make:

There are ways around a colorblindness restriction. You said you can see green in real life, except from long distance and on the plates. You can get a waiver from the restrictions by passing a field test with an FAA guy and getting a letter saying you are good. This letter lets you bypass the colorblindness tests. One of the ways this test is administered is by going to a towered airport and having them shoot a light gun (a large flashlight) at you that has separate red, green, and white filters. You have to call out the color. You can also verify the white/green from an airport beacon. You or you and your CFI can talk to a tower and ask for light gun signals so you can tell if you will pass.

The other part is the medical itself. Many of us in your (our) age group get started, bumble into the AME office for the first time ever, and don't even think about some of the prescriptions, or diagnoses we've ever had and then find out the hard way that there is way more to it. You said you are good, but so have many others only to find out otherwise. It was a friendly warning.

Regarding your first question: When talking to your CFI remember that you are the employer. Be honest with yourself and figure out your best learning styles, and ask your CFI about his teaching styles. Some people are doers, some are watchers, some learn better with different teaching methods. Discuss. And also remember that the older the student, the longer it usually takes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top