New Job interview-advice

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Last few weeks, I haven't been looking forward to going to work. I live in a strange world of 3 bosses, one works in the office with me that I see about once per day and another I deal with over the phone throughout the day. All 3 of us are Type A and we sometimes disagree on the best way to solve a problem. The third, I rarely talk to; I'm just passive income for him. The one on the phone is the one that has power over my contract (just renewed for another year) and is happy with my work, the 2nd would love to see us fail (for sadistic pleasure).

About 2 weeks ago, I started interviewing for a new job and getting offers. I feel good that the money is still coming in (and so does my #3 boss), but I think I want out. I want to be more open with my interviewers and tell them my reason for looking is because my environment is emotionally abusive (not exagerrating) but I don't forsee this going over well. I also want to use it as a test to keep me from jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan.

1- What is a better way to answer this question for interviews?
2- Is disclosing this opening myself for libel suit? The Organization I work for is well known.
 
All I know is that it is very unwise to say bad things about past employers or clients. It doesn't matter whether they are true or not.
 
You're a success and challenge driven individual. You're seeking a new opportunity that provides for both growth and personal fulfillment and recognition.

Existing employer is good, but you are ready for next big thing.
 
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Also agree. Don't air dirty laundry at an interview. You're just looking for a change of work scenery and people. Interviews are about the future. The past beyond qualifications and accomplishments, is off-limits.

It's fair to say in an interview that you "don't believe you can grow and contribute effectively in my current work environment."

Or another good way to say it, is that while you're "willing to continue working for my existing employer, their goals and mine, aren't aligned."

Keep it in terms of your plans, goals, and future work.

(Plus, that answer opens the next question, "What are your goals?" Be sure you have an answer.)

As far as some of your specific complaints go, the grass is probably not greener on the other side of the fence.

Multiple bosses? Everyplace is doing that. No middle managers are even allowed to be 100% responsible for staff unless they demand it, these days.

Type-A's clashing? Does the sun also rise where you are? ;)

Etc. etc. etc.

Keep in mind that "the Devil you know" is sometimes better than an all-new situation.

Not everyone at a new place is necessarily happy either and they could even be out to get you.

There's always that transition period where you haven't proven yourself to the appropriate leadership and they have a track record with the existing staff. I believe (but have no reason to act this way) that an entrenched staff can figure out a way to get any new-hire, fired -- if they want to.

Luckily at my interview for my new position this year when asked, "Why are you looking?" I was able to honestly say, "I wasn't. You called me to go to lunch and it turned into an interview!" The interviewer laughed and changed it to, "Why would you consider working for us?" ;)
 
P.S. A more personal comment... Only you can *allow* others to emotionally abuse you. Seriously.

If they're criticizing your work and you know it's good... Give 'em the pleasure of *thinking* they got to you just a little bit if you feel like playing their games or need the job, but you know yourself if what they're saying is true.

We Americans tie our need of acceptance from others far too much into our work lives. Our self-image is often defined by our job title too. The first question out of people's mouths in the U.S. at cocktail parties is, "So what do you do?"

No one will care what your job title was when you're dead. They'll celebrate your actual accomplishments and character. Well, if you're hanging around the right people, anyway.

Try asking an Australian what they do sometime. Their first answer will rarely be about what they do for a *living*. It'll be about what they do in their free time.
 
I agree with others. One approach might be to try to figure out how you can be a solution to the hirer's problem. One of your challenges would be to figure out what his problem is (he may not even recognize it as a problem) and how you will help him solve it. That doesn't have much to do with why you left your last position.
 
Many years ago I learned about an interview technique that has proven to be very effective. Start the interview by saying "in thinking about our meeting today, I tried to reverse the roles and determine what I'd want o know about me if I were asking the questions and trying to determine whether we should consider this guy for employment. I made a list of the questions, and will be happy to discuss any of them with you today."

Then hand them a list the toughest questions you can think of, many of which they would really like to ask but might not due to a sense of propriety or political correctness. Once the question is posed the way you like it, you can then provide the answer in the manner you desire.

A sample of the 20 questions on my list might be:

What's so special about this guy that we should consider hiring him?

What does he really bring to the table that we really need and don't already have?

Is this a strategic hire for us? Is he a one-of-a-kind commodity, or just another guy to fill a job?

What does he think is his single-most strong point? How can he prove it?

Does he have a job now?

Where? For how long?

If we could cut through the HR muddle-speak, what does his current employer think of him? What would his boss say if we could get a straight answer from him?

How much money does he want? Is he affordable under our comp structure?

Does anybody at our company know the guy or know anything about him? How can we check him out within the industry?

What has he really accomplished at his prior jobs? Is he a rainmaker or just one more guy standing around holding an umbrella and taking credit for stuff he didn't do?

Why is he looking? Are they going to can him, is he looking for more money, is he a job-hopper? Is he running towards a new job or running away from the job he he has now?

Is he unhappy where he is? Any axes to grind or burned bridges we need to know about?

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As you work through the list (most employers will use your list because it's what they really want to know) you can take advantage of the situation because you know how to present your answer.

For example "I like the company where I'm working now, and am under no pressure to leave. My production is good and I'm considered a valuable resource. I think I have a good future there.

If I could wave the magic wand and make it perfect, I would eliminate some of the "organizational idiosyncrasies" that hinder effectiveness and force me to devote too much time to dealing with "workplace stuff" that shouldn't be present, IMO. I know that I'm much more productive when I'm well-managed, and I prefer a straight-forward and well-structured management system with clear-cut lines of authority/responsibility.

I can handle the management flexibility that is often necessary as organizations adapt to changing environments, and understand why they're sometimes necessary, but also think the org chart should be simple and straightforward rather than complex and convoluted."
 
So piercings, and tatoos are out of the question?



:D
 
Jim Logajan said:
All I know is that it is very unwise to say bad things about past employers or clients. It doesn't matter whether they are true or not.
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Agree. Always, always focus on positives and being upbeat. One person's "mental abuse" is another's sadistic pleasure. Bringing it up would only raise questions in their minds as to whether their situation would be any better than the one you're currently in. Emotions are very subjective.

The ONLY time I might even mention something that reflects poorly on a current employer is a situation where you are making a choice to change jobs because the existing employer's ethical behavior is unacceptable (e.g. they operate unethically or encourage unethical behavior) or where they expect folks to operate illegally. And even then, I wouldn't bring it up unless asked about how you deal with ethics issues. Your answer needs to be very carefully worded to let the employer know that you value the employers reputation as well as your own (and if they balk at an expectation that they operate in an ethical manner, you don't want the job anyway).

AggieMike88 said:
You're a success and challenge driven individual. You're seeking a new opportunity that provides for both growth and personal fulfillment and recognition.

Existing employer is good, but you are ready for next big thing.
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That's exactly the way to put it. You're looking for new challenges.
 
wsuffa said:
That's exactly the way to put it. You're looking for new challenges.
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Depends on who's conducting the interview. I would consider that as a canned B/S answer and a big red flag.
 
Unregistered said:
About 2 weeks ago, I started interviewing for a new job and getting offers. I feel good that the money is still coming in (and so does my #3 boss), but I think I want out. I want to be more open with my interviewers and tell them my reason for looking is because my environment is emotionally abusive (not exagerrating) but I don't forsee this going over well. I also want to use it as a test to keep me from jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan.

1- What is a better way to answer this question for interviews?
2- Is disclosing this opening myself for libel suit? The Organization I work for is well known.
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First - good for you for having the opportunities that other employers are giving you. These days, too many people feel stuck where they are because the job market is pretty tight in a lot of places.

Next - never burn bridges. You may find yourself in a situation one day where your contacts (ie - current bosses) may come in handy.

Finally - stay positive. You have a job, you are looking for another job to make your life better. That's it. You don't need to air any dirty laundry to a prospective employer, most likely they'll start to wonder what you would say about them someday.
 
wabower said:
Depends on who's conducting the interview. I would consider that as a canned B/S answer and a big red flag.
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While it might make me ask a few more questions, I certainly don't consider it a red flag. Especially if the candidate is still employed and has been at the job for a while. It's certainly less of a red flag than calling the existing boss an "abuser".
 
I need to know if we're going to have a meaningful discussion of why he's here talking to me about a job, or if we're going to dance around with canned answers and PC bullshlt that won't get us any closer to a mutual decision about whether we want him or he wants us.

I'll make it clear that I don't expect him to badmouth his current or former employer, and I'm not interested in hearing that stuff. I'll also make it abundantly clear that this is the only opportunity we're going to have to talk about this stuff, and we need to get on with it.

If somebody hits me with the "new challenges" pablum, I'll probably ask

"why don't you want to stay and deal with the challenges you have? Is it too tough for you there? All jobs have challenges. If you can't handle those, why should I think you can handle these?"





wsuffa said:
While it might make me ask a few more questions, I certainly don't consider it a red flag. Especially if the candidate is still employed and has been at the job for a while. It's certainly less of a red flag than calling the existing boss an "abuser".
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wabower said:
I need to know if we're going to have a meaningful discussion of why he's here talking to me about a job, or if we're going to dance around with canned answers and PC bullshlt that won't get us any closer to a mutual decision about whether we want him or he wants us.

I'll make it clear that I don't expect him to badmouth his current or former employer, and I'm not interested in hearing that stuff. I'll also make it abundantly clear that this is the only opportunity we're going to have to talk about this stuff, and we need to get on with it.

If somebody hits me with the "new challenges" pablum, I'll probably ask

"why don't you want to stay and deal with the challenges you have? Is it too tough for you there? All jobs have challenges. If you can't handle those, why should I think you can handle these?"
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I'm more concerned about whether 1) they can do the job well, 2) whether they're committed to doing the job well & staying around for a while, 3) that the current/former employer is not terminating them for some "cause", and 4) that they'd be a good cultural fit for my environment. Personally, I prefer folks that think strategically, recognize dead-ends, and want to improve themselves/their standing (yes, even ones that say "I want YOUR job in 3 years"). They're motivated.
 
Wayne,

If you, as a prospective employer, want honesty, then you shouldn't penalize a guy for giving it to you, if he tells you his current boss is difficult to work for.

You can't have it both ways. If you want people to not badmouth their former employers, don't be surprised if they give you non-answers as to why they're leaving. If they had everything they wanted, they wouldn't be looking elsewhere.

My advice is to focus on what you want from the prospective employer (a cool project or more responsibility or xxx), and let it be understood if not experessed that you're not getting it at the current job.

Example - I have had a boss who was batsh!t-crazy. Ended up fired and in mental-health-care crazy. The stress put on everyone who worked for him was enormous, as we all tried to get the mission accomplished in spite of him. Several folks left during his time there, and I considered it. Not sure what I would have told a prospective interviewer other than "I'm not happy in my current job and I think I'd be much happier working for your company because of xyz".
 
wsuffa said:
The ONLY time I might even mention something that reflects poorly on a current employer is a situation where you are making a choice to change jobs because the existing employer's ethical behavior is unacceptable (e.g. they operate unethically or encourage unethical behavior) or where they expect folks to operate illegally. And even then, I wouldn't bring it up unless asked about how you deal with ethics issues. Your answer needs to be very carefully worded to let the employer know that you value the employers reputation as well as your own (and if they balk at an expectation that they operate in an ethical manner, you don't want the job anyway).
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I've been that situation twice. The first time I tried to resolve the problem "thru the org chart", going up the ladder pointing out the legal irregularities on a classified program. When that didn't work, and there was retaliation at the local level. I left at lunch and never regretted it. However, I never, ever bring it up. The company no longer exists, so it's a non-issue.

I do not ever lie or evade when asked questions, always positive, defendable and confirmable truth. I do not ever say anything negative about a former employer.
 
wabower said:
Many years ago I learned about an interview technique that has proven to be very effective. Start the interview by saying "in thinking about our meeting today, I tried to reverse the roles and determine what I'd want o know about me if I were asking the questions and trying to determine whether we should consider this guy for employment. I made a list of the questions, and will be happy to discuss any of them with you today."
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In a quick scan of them, some of your questions are illegal to ask job applicants in most circumstances.

The applicant can offer up the information, but making them ask the questions makes them iffy.
 
I provided them with the questions. I think that takes them off the hook, but don't really care. They learn what they really want to know about me, and I've never missed a consulting job or interim CEO gig when I used the technique.
denverpilot said:
In a quick scan of them, some of your questions are illegal to ask job applicants in most circumstances.

The applicant can offer up the information, but making them ask the questions makes them iffy.
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"I want your job" is another bullshlt canned answer that doesn't fly with me. How the hell does he know if he wants my job?

wsuffa said:
I'm more concerned about whether 1) they can do the job well, 2) whether they're committed to doing the job well & staying around for a while, 3) that the current/former employer is not terminating them for some "cause", and 4) that they'd be a good cultural fit for my environment. Personally, I prefer folks that think strategically, recognize dead-ends, and want to improve themselves/their standing (yes, even ones that say "I want YOUR job in 3 years"). They're motivated.
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Interesting point of note.

Wayne's got a no-nonsense attitude and is from Texas. I like his method, and it sounds like it conforms with the region. I'm no-nonsense also, so I appreciate it.

The people who are disagreeing are from areas where his method may not be quite as appreciated, and wouldn't do or want that same interview technique.

But I agree with the canned BS answers. It's not badmouthing your old employer to explain that there are/were conflicts and issues with the work environment. If I'm interviewing, I ask these questions because I don't want to step into the same problems I'm trying to get away from - that just hurts both sides. And it's always worked for getting an offer.
 
I'm also brutally honest and offer up far more information than is required/allowed by law in interviews.

I just brought up the legal point because it could make some employers cringe to ask any question they've been instructed never to ask by their HR department.

I, for one, would see that in and of itself, a huge red flag from the other side of the table.

Companies who are controlled by their HR departments are full of mediocre people after it has been that way for a while. By design and motivation/negative incentives in hiring only "non-risky" applicants.

That same HR department will train employees on Diversity with a straight face, too. Ironic.

Maybe this changes my answer a bit. Be as open as you want. If they don't want honesty, you may not want to work for them. ;)
 
wabower said:
"I want your job" is another bullshlt canned answer that doesn't fly with me. How the hell does he know if he wants my job?
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Disagree completely. If the applicant has researched the company (and you) as he should have, it might be a very legit answer. Most times I've heard it, it was NOT canned, and combined with other answers showed motivation to succeed.

Again, it has to be taken in context.
 
An applicant can convey his amibition and desire to succeed in many ways that are better than telling somebody he wants their job. It's not only BS, it's stupid. No amount of research by an outsider will provide the information on which to base a decision about whether he wants your job. It's a poor strategy to use during an interview.

There are lots of things to say
wsuffa said:
Disagree completely. If the applicant has researched the company (and you) as he should have, it might be a very legit answer. Most times I've heard it, it was NOT canned, and combined with other answers showed motivation to succeed.

Again, it has to be taken in context.
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wabower said:
An applicant can convey his amibition and desire to succeed in many ways that are better than telling somebody he wants their job. It's not only BS, it's stupid. No amount of research by an outsider will provide the information on which to base a decision about whether he wants your job. It's a poor strategy to use during an interview.

There are lots of things to say
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Correct. There are a lot of ways to convey things.

But to reject an applicant, or call them stupid because they say that they want the boss's job is IMHO foolhardy. YMMV. But hey, it's your company.....
 
Unregistered said:
Last few weeks, I haven't been looking forward to going to work. I live in a strange world of 3 bosses, one works in the office with me that I see about once per day and another I deal with over the phone throughout the day. All 3 of us are Type A and we sometimes disagree on the best way to solve a problem. The third, I rarely talk to; I'm just passive income for him. The one on the phone is the one that has power over my contract (just renewed for another year) and is happy with my work, the 2nd would love to see us fail (for sadistic pleasure).

About 2 weeks ago, I started interviewing for a new job and getting offers. I feel good that the money is still coming in (and so does my #3 boss), but I think I want out. I want to be more open with my interviewers and tell them my reason for looking is because my environment is emotionally abusive (not exagerrating) but I don't forsee this going over well. I also want to use it as a test to keep me from jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan.

1- What is a better way to answer this question for interviews?
2- Is disclosing this opening myself for libel suit? The Organization I work for is well known.
Click to expand...

I think the description of your situation raises a bigger issue - are you in a suitable line of work that matches your personality? It would be difficult to directly answer your first question because it might vary depending on what you do. I assume it's some sort of administrative desk job.

In general, I would not answer your first question as you suggest - I would leave it a standard "I'm at a dead end job and want opportunity...." or whatever, but don't throw red flags out. But there ARE other ways to indirectly fish for the information that you seek. You might at some point in the interview, while you are describing your skill set, relate how you counseled a co-worker that "considered his or her work environment to be emotionally abusive" and see what kind of response you might get. Your response to the side question of "Did you consider the environment emotionally abusive?" would be "Certainly there are stressful elements to the job, I didn't have a problem handling them."

Regarding your second question, I can't imagine how what you might say about your employer in an interview would get you in a libel suit. It's your freedom of speech, and even if you publically trashed your employer over "emotionally abusive bosses" it would be a stretch for them to incur and show damage over a subjective comment like that.
 
Tagged.. Can't read it all now, but I'm hoping for an interview soon and need to read this.. ;)
 
Its stupid for a number of reasons. My first few follow-up questions to that response (if I bothered to ask, which I probably wouldn't because I've already made a decision) would be:

1. What elements of my job do you like best?

2. What elements do you like least?

3. What message are you trying to convey to me by telling you that you want my job?

4. What caused you to think that statement would be the most effective way to convey the message?

5. Where did you come up with the notion that your "I want your job" statement would be a good idea? Did you hear it or read it somewhere, or did you come up with it yourself?

6. Have you stopped to think about how my reaction to that question, and how it would impact your candidacy for this job?

7. Can you think of another way to convey that message to a potential employer that would be more effective?

You want to pretend you're an applicant and take a shot at those questions?

wsuffa said:
Correct. There are a lot of ways to convey things.

But to reject an applicant, or call them stupid because they say that they want the boss's job is IMHO foolhardy. YMMV. But hey, it's your company.....
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Sure.

That's a heap of questions, pardner. Are you really trying to hire somebody, or are you just jerking off to show your position of power?
 
TMetzinger said:
Sure.

That's a heap of questions, pardner. Are you really trying to hire somebody, or are you just jerking off to show your position of power?
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Did you read the first part of the post?

Here's the deal. If you come in here hot-shotting me about wanting my job, I'm going to ask some probing questions (you know, like those that good CFI's are supposed to ask) to learn more about why you made that statement.

If you don't like it, there are lots of other investment banks where you can apply and I've got a stack of resumes on my desk that a show dog couldn't jump over. Capiche?
 
wabower said:
Did you read the first part of the post?

Here's the deal. If you come in here hot-shotting me about wanting my job, I'm going to ask some probing questions (you know, like those that good CFI's are supposed to ask) to learn more about why you made that statement.

If you don't like it, there are lots of other investment banks where you can apply and I've got a stack of resumes on my desk that a show dog couldn't jump over. Capiche?
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Oh, I followed the whole thread. I'm half-assedly busting your chops because your attitude on this topic comes across in a way (likely due to the lack of tone) that makes you seem like a pompous asshat. Based on other's recommendations I'm sure that's not the case in reality. I can see where the "I want your job" comment could trigger someone's hot buttons

I interview folks for technical positions, and I (if the HR department will let me) give them a written test of troubleshooting skills, and then make them work a short practical test in the interview. Takes about ten minutes to figure out if they have useful skills or have just been practicing for buzzword bingo. Folks may be surprised (or depressed) at how frequently HR folks have told me I can't give a "test".

And it's "capisce". Trust me, I married an Italian.
 
Our (my) MO for all of our companies was to hire smart, train hard and manage easy. It seems to have worked out pretty well.

One of the greatest favors I received as a young buck was from a guy who forced me to think (in advance, if possible) about how what I might say would be received/interpreted, and to be sure I was using the best method/language possible to get the point across. It wasn't much fun at the time, but I came to realize the value of the lesson and try to pass it on to the kids coming up.

Would you rather have an applicant tell you his goal is to have your job or to say he hopes that in five years you can both look back and be glad you hired him? Or that he knows he must come in and contribute to prove his worth and make sure he's eligible for consideration when opportunities arise within the company. Or that he understands that companies only hire when they really need more help, and that he knows he'll be expected to work hard and learn to do things the way we want them done. Or whatever.

Insofar as the interview process is concerned, I learned another lesson from the outgoing police commissioner when I took over that job in 1975. He said "there's no sin in putting a little pressure on an applicant during an interview, just to see how he reacts. If a guy blows up during an interview, he may not be the guy we want to hire, and phonies often blow up under pressure." So I sometimes do that as well and don't consider it to be cheating.

I don't remember ever losing a candidate we wanted by being too tough during an interview, but there's a lot of stuff in that "don't remember" category these days.





TMetzinger said:
Oh, I followed the whole thread. I'm half-assedly busting your chops because your attitude on this topic comes across in a way (likely due to the lack of tone) that makes you seem like a pompous asshat. Based on other's recommendations I'm sure that's not the case in reality. I can see where the "I want your job" comment could trigger someone's hot buttons

I interview folks for technical positions, and I (if the HR department will let me) give them a written test of troubleshooting skills, and then make them work a short practical test in the interview. Takes about ten minutes to figure out if they have useful skills or have just been practicing for buzzword bingo. Folks may be surprised (or depressed) at how frequently HR folks have told me I can't give a "test".

And it's "capisce". Trust me, I married an Italian.
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