new Cessna Seat track AD

ANOTHER one?!? Pretty soon, they're gonna have to get the "black box" manufacturers to start making Cessna seat rails. Repetitive inspections, the "lawyer lock," and that ghetto-ass seat belt thing aren't enough? :incazzato:
 
Supposedly we have Cessna part number seat rails in our Piper Pawnee. I am surprised that Cessna parts in other aircraft are not mentioned.
 
Looks to me like the AD just covers stuff we do at every inspection anyway.
 
wabower said:
Looks to me like the AD just covers stuff we do at every inspection anyway.
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You may do it any way, but others don't. This AD removes the 1000 hour tt on the track to be included in the AD. Now all Cessna seat tracks are included in the AD. Plus the new measurements on the Tangs will take most of the seats in use now out of service.
 
I'd love to know where they're getting the parts for $110 as mentioned in the costs section of the AD.

A friend replaced seat rails in his 182 this year and it cost him over $400 a rail set (per side).

He may have upgraded them to a sturdier STC'ed rail set, but the factory rails aren't $110... and they'll be even higher now...
 
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Tom-D said:
You may do it any way, but others don't. This AD removes the 1000 hour tt on the track to be included in the AD. Now all Cessna seat tracks are included in the AD. Plus the new measurements on the Tangs will take most of the seats in use now out of service.
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I always have checked these items. looks like if the tangs are out of limits it will just require replacment of the roller housings.
 
I got an e-mail from the FAA about the seat rails. It definitely is an issue with Cessnas. I have had the seat slide back in a C-172, and it wasn't fun. If I had not had an instructor with me, it might have ended in an unpleasant way. Too bad there is not a really good fix for this problem.
 
denverpilot said:
I'd love to know where they're getting the parts for $110 as mentioned in the costs section of the AD.

A friend replaced seat rails in his 182 this year and it cost him over $400 a rail set (per side).

He may have upgraded them to a sturdier STC'ed rail set, but the factory rails aren't $110... and they'll be even higher now...
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Actually, according to the AD the $110 cost is for the roller replacement parts. They show the rails as being $225 per rail for a total of $450 per side. Thats more inline with what you expected? In addition they're showing $170 per rail for labor or $395 per rail parts and labor.


I caught the wheel as a friends seat rolled back on takeoff once. He was a big guy and in the last hole in the track. The plane was a new (to us at CAP) 1984 182 and for some reason the seat slipped. It was probably not latched all the way. In any case I grabbed the wheel as he rolled back to the seat stop....or at least I stopped the wheel as he rolled back. The takeoff probably looked normal from the ground but scared the hell out of us. I always rattle the seat around to make sure the pins are in place and locked prior to startup. If it can happen to a 182 with around 200 hours on it than the older more well used tracks have a better chance of letting go. I hate to spend the money on this but better that then hoping my wife can catch the wheel if my seat slips....

Frank
 
BiffJ said:
. I hate to spend the money on this but better that then hoping my wife can catch the wheel if my seat slips....

Frank
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Better idea, check the hole size and taper before flight, if they look worn get them replaced.

you can read the AD, you can see, so getterdone.
 
I've been using a secondary stop on the rail for as long as I can remember.

BiffJ said:
Actually, according to the AD the $110 cost is for the roller replacement parts. They show the rails as being $225 per rail for a total of $450 per side. Thats more inline with what you expected? In addition they're showing $170 per rail for labor or $395 per rail parts and labor.


I caught the wheel as a friends seat rolled back on takeoff once. He was a big guy and in the last hole in the track. The plane was a new (to us at CAP) 1984 182 and for some reason the seat slipped. It was probably not latched all the way. In any case I grabbed the wheel as he rolled back to the seat stop....or at least I stopped the wheel as he rolled back. The takeoff probably looked normal from the ground but scared the hell out of us. I always rattle the seat around to make sure the pins are in place and locked prior to startup. If it can happen to a 182 with around 200 hours on it than the older more well used tracks have a better chance of letting go. I hate to spend the money on this but better that then hoping my wife can catch the wheel if my seat slips....

Frank
Click to expand...
 
Tom-D said:
Better idea, check the hole size and taper before flight, if they look worn get them replaced.

you can read the AD, you can see, so getterdone.
Click to expand...


I just finished up the Annual on the 175 and the seat rails and the seats were checked carefully. I have the secondary stops installed as well. I will replace the rails and any other parts when needed too. Some things are more important than the expense of new parts from cessna even when they get out of line on that. It helps a lot to be an A&P expense wise.....but the parts cost the same for all of us I think.

Frank
 
Thanks for catching that was the roller parts.

I too will certainly have no qualms about replacing whatever parts are needed, we have secondary stops installed, and it's always been "seat moves, Cessna butt wiggle immediately afterward" for me too.

I skimmed over the costs section too quick other than my eyeballs lingering on that $3.3 million total cost. Impressive how an AD can be a boon for some. ;)
 
bbchien said:
I have one in my flight instruction bag....
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How do you position the stop on the track so as to stop the seat from slipping.

I can't reach the stop after I am in the seat. all I can do is to position the stop before I get in, and If I put it where it will do some good, it is too far forward for me to enter the seat.
 
How much is it to completely replace the track? Would that get rid of the A/D?

(new plane owner, just trying to learn me a few things)
 
DavidWhite said:
How much is it to completely replace the track? Would that get rid of the A/D?

(new plane owner, just trying to learn me a few things)
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No. Not if you replace with the factory rails anyway.

I don't know of other options but I have heard at least one person say they upgraded to something sturdier via an STCed set from somewhere else.

The AD is to inspect for wear and damage. So you replace when they're unsafe and then start watching for the next time, probably about ten years hence, depending on how you treat 'em.

They just wear out. Someone else posted the replacement costs of the parts above.
 
DavidWhite said:
How much is it to completely replace the track? Would that get rid of the A/D?

(new plane owner, just trying to learn me a few things)
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New Plane Owner at age 16 David, wow that's pretty good. How did you do it?

BTW The McFarlane rails are much more robust than the OEM Cessna Rails, and they cost a bit more than the OEM's to replace. The job is time consuming and more expensive than the prediction in the A-D.
 
The stop slides on the rail behind the aft seat leg. Slide it forward into position and rotate the cam lever to secure it in place. Or tighten the plastic wing-nut in another version.

Either way, it's so simple that even most mechanics can be taught to do it if you're patient.;)

Tom-D said:
How do you position the stop on the track so as to stop the seat from slipping.

I can't reach the stop after I am in the seat. all I can do is to position the stop before I get in, and If I put it where it will do some good, it is too far forward for me to enter the seat.
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DavidWhite said:
How much is it to completely replace the track? Would that get rid of the A/D?

My time and materials on my last track replacement was a little over $800.00 for all 4 (new plane owner, just trying to learn me a few things)
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Replacing the tracks no longer removes the AD, all seat tracks and roller assemblies now get inspected every 100 hours. before, the old AD the trcaks did not need inspecting until they had 1000 hours in service.

If you were to buy a new cessna it would need AD compliance in the first 100 hours.
 
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DutchessFlier said:
New Plane Owner at age 16 David, wow that's pretty good. How did you do it?

BTW The McFarlane rails are much more robust than the OEM Cessna Rails, and they cost a bit more than the OEM's to replace. The job is time consuming and more expensive than the prediction in the A-D.
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Technically speaking, it's my dads plane, but he tasked it to me to get everything done on it. I'm just trying to learn everything I can
 
EdFred said:
I just fly a Piper. :D
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When I was at about 7 hours and flew Cherokee, I entered a turn to final when *BAM* - the Johnson bar jumped from 2 notches of flap back to 1 notch. That was pretty funny, although granted, not as dangerous as the seat track.
 
Yeah, I've had em where they (the flaps) didn't quite engage all the way and pop back out. For me I can still reach the controls even if the seat slides all the way back.
 
Tom-D said:
Replacing the tracks no longer removes the AD, all seat tracks and roller assemblies now get inspected every 100 hours. before unser the old AD the trcaks did not need inspecting until they had 1000 hours in service.

If you were to buy a new cessna it would need AD compliance in the first 100 hours.
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The AD applies only to the older pre-restart models. '96 and later have totally different seat rails and latches. Much better but considerably heavier stuff. The latch pins don't penetrate the top the the rail; they go into holes in the rail web and are retracted by flexible cables. We have a 172S here and find the system 100% better than the old one.

Dan
 
denverpilot said:
No. Not if you replace with the factory rails anyway. .
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This AD applies to aircraft make and model, not part number, so no matter which rail or roller you have, it still applies.
 
If you're working on a Cessna seat this year, remember that even though the thing is a PITA in some respects...

Cessna is still offering their "seat belt" style safety strappy thing that bolts to the floor and keeps the seat from heading for the aircraft's nether-regions for free... take the aircraft to any Authorized Cessna Service Center.

Offer ends in June or July I believe.
 
denverpilot said:
If you're working on a Cessna seat this year, remember that even though the thing is a PITA in some respects...

Cessna is still offering their "seat belt" style safety strappy thing that bolts to the floor and keeps the seat from heading for the aircraft's nether-regions for free... take the aircraft to any Authorized Cessna Service Center.

Offer ends in June or July I believe.
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Yeah, we had that done to the left seat of the 182. Looks completely ghetto and doesn't remove anything from the AD. I suppose it's theoretically safer. :dunno:
 
denverpilot said:
Cessna is still offering their "seat belt" style safety strappy thing that bolts to the floor and keeps the seat from heading for the aircraft's nether-regions for free... take the aircraft to any Authorized Cessna Service Center.

Offer ends in June or July I believe.
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Shoot! We paid $190 or so for several of those kits. Ripoff. And then we had to replace two of them under warranty when the actuating cables failed. And they often don't work accurately and make getting out a pain when they won't release. I wish Cessna would come up with a decent fix instead of stuff like this that just adds more trouble. The cam-style rail locks needed fiddling with to get the seat back, and the thumbscrew clamp also required fooling with. Not something I'd like if the airplane was on fire (on the ground) and I wanted out right now.

A better deal would the the new-style rails with rollers and housings to match the new rails to the old seats. Better to pay $500 per seat for those than the $190 for Rube Goldberg fixes. It would solve the AD issue, too.

Dan
 
Tom-D said:
No..... the AD is by aircraft make and model, not part number.
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Ah... so you could bolt the seat to the floor and climb over it to get in, and the FAA would still think an inspection was needed.

Yup, sounds like the agency we've all come to know and love... :mad2:

I feel safer already.
 
denverpilot said:
Ah... so you could bolt the seat to the floor and climb over it to get in, and the FAA would still think an inspection was needed.
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It would take an STC to do that, since the rails are part of the aircraft structure. They stiffen the floor. The amount of work to change anything would be far more costly than checking and replacing the existing stuff so the FAA doesn't anticipate anyone changing anything.

Really, it's not that bad if it's looked after. We have three airplanes with the affected setup in them, and we don't replace rails often; perhaps every 4000 hours, maybe, at the most often. If the rollers are kept clean and rolling free, the seat doesn't get rocked back when the pilot slides it back and the tangs don't get worn. If the pin actuation stuff is kept aligned and the rails free of small stones and other FOD, the holes don't get worn quickly at all. We put a bit of paraffin wax on the underside of the rail top flanges to lube the tang/rail interface. Aluminum against aluminum galls and gets torn up.

Most of the trouble we encounter is cracking rails, mostly because they're carrying considerable weight (fat pilots) and they flex enough to fatigue the metal beside the holes in the tops of the rails and it lets go. If that crack is left long enough the web below it starts to crack, and that grounds the airplane. The McFarlane rails have a thicker web and top rail, cost less and last longer. McFarlane's rollers and especially their roller washers are far better; Cessna's washers are punched out of scrap ABS interior panelling, while McFarlane's are made of some tough nylon or UHMWPE. They last ten times longer.

There's another thing that will someday become an AD. The Cessna flap rollers consist of thin sleeves pressed over small roller bearings. Those sleeves creep sideways off the roller and cut into the flap support arms, and can weaken them enough that a disc punches right out. The roller cocks and jams and the flap twists and wrecks the flap rails. Gets ugly. McFarlane has all the right stuff to fix that. Cessna has known about it for 15 years and issued an SB back then to put washers beside the front rollers. No treatment for the aft rollers, so McFarlane made up the right stuff to do them all and got an STC for it. Cessna only got around to issuing another SB on it in April '06, demanding that their version of McFarlane's stuff be put on all affected airplanes, but our 172S, built eight months later in December '06, didn't have those parts on it. Go figure.

Dan
 
Yeah, John Frank at CPA is pretty hyped up on the McFarlane stuff for the flaps too. Great to be in a type club as these (any) aircraft age... you get this kind of info long before it seeps out into the rest of the world...
 
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