Need multi engine time - How did you build your multi hrs?

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Fly2016

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Fly2016
Hi Guys,
I need to build around 100 multi-engine hours. Does anyone know of a good cheap place anywhere in the USA that I can rent a twin for 100 hours? I want to fly it off in under a month. Preferably all pic time. Any recommendations?
How did you guys build your multi time?
 
If you're a CPL, get a entry level job in a small twin
 
I'm pretty sure most any place that rents twins would jump at the chance to bill 100 hours in it in a month. I'm sure you could cut some kind of a block discount. Insurability might be an issue since you'd presumably be wanting to take it yourself without an instructor, and many places only allow their twins to be rented for dual instruction. But with a block of time like you want, even that could be negotiable.

Alternately, you could buy a twin, fly it for your month, then likely sell it for the same amount as you bought it. That would potentially be the absolute cheapest way (barring unforeseen maintenance expenses).
 
You might ask around the local airports and see if anyone would be willing to dry lease their twin for a month or two. You'd want to research the insurance, but it might work out well for someone who has a twin that doesn't fly much.

Personally, I built my twin time by buying my own twin, but that was more for a family traveling machine than a straight time builder.
 
RussR said:
Alternately, you could buy a twin, fly it for your month, then likely sell it for the same amount as you bought it.
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That is a good way to lose your pants. It could work with the right twin at the right price, but when you want to sell it, you could very well be waiting a while for a buyer while you pay for insurance, hangar/tiedown...etc. I would never recommend that approach for someone who simply wanted to build 100 hrs in one or two months time.

To make that work, you'd pretty much want to have the next buyer lined up before you closed on it yourself.
 
I've heard of a place in Phoenix that will rent you a twin Comanche for around $250/hr wet and will do it in large blocks of dedicated time. A checkout is required of course.
 
Fly2016 said:
Hi Guys,
I need to build around 100 multi-engine hours. Does anyone know of a good cheap place anywhere in the USA that I can rent a twin for 100 hours? I want to fly it off in under a month. Preferably all pic time. Any recommendations?
How did you guys build your multi time?
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189/hr wet for a Seminole... Cheapest I've seen. YMMV
http://rmflight.com/N2882C.html
 
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James_Dean said:
I've heard of a place in Phoenix that will rent you a twin Comanche for around $250/hr wet and will do it in large blocks of dedicated time. A checkout is required of course.
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Probably this place (but there are others in the Phoenix area that have similar deals):

http://www.multienginetimebuilding.com/

Current special is $229/hour in 10 hour blocks.
 
The buying a plane for a month of use really is a gamble. Remember you still have to pay sales tax, you run the risk of something failing and having to pay to repair it. Then you'll have to get insurance, and you'll still have to pay for gas, etc.

I think working out a block rate with a place that rents a twin is the best option that minimizes your risk and probably gets you the time the cheapest if you can't find a job.
 
I got lucky. I found a place that flew checks in a C310 and they hired me as a right seater assuming I would either learn, or be terminated. Luckily within two months I learned enough to be PIC.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The buying a plane for a month of use really is a gamble. Remember you still have to pay sales tax, you run the risk of something failing and having to pay to repair it. Then you'll have to get insurance, and you'll still have to pay for gas, etc.

I think working out a block rate with a place that rents a twin is the best option that minimizes your risk and probably gets you the time the cheapest if you can't find a job.
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I know of a 310 that could be dry leased for...... Oh you said cheap. Never mind.
 
James_Dean said:
I know of a 310 that could be dry leased for...... Oh you said cheap. Never mind.
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Your 310 wouldn't exactly be considered disposable like a Sky King variant.
 
James_Dean said:
I know of a 310 that could be dry leased for...... Oh you said cheap. Never mind.
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Yeah I was gonna mention there's a 310 for sale here. :D

When I got all my CFI tickets I instructed in 310s (FBO had 4 of em) that were also used for Part 135 at the FBO I trained at. So I was able to instruct ME in 310s and fly 135 in 310s and 402s. But that was back in the days when the GA ramp at most every airport was full of planes.
 
I got my multi engine rating at Redbird back when it was under $1000, then promptly got my MEI and started instructing. I couldn't afford to fly a twin on my own dime, so it was all instruction or as safety pilot. Eventually I got a gig (through the flight school) doing pilot services for a guy with a Baron, which was a nice break from the school plane.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is a good way to lose your pants.
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Ted DuPuis said:
The buying a plane for a month of use really is a gamble.
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I didn't say it was a great idea, just an option. :wink2: And "maybe" the cheapest one (but certainly maybe not).

Fearless Tower said:
Probably this place (but there are others in the Phoenix area that have similar deals):

http://www.multienginetimebuilding.com/

Current special is $229/hour in 10 hour blocks.
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I looked at their website just out of curiosity and found their program "interesting". They have their block rates listed as 5-9 hours, 10-25 hours, and 25-50 hours, but all for the same price of $229. Then above 50 hours you can negotiate lower I suppose (they say "call").

But more interesting was that all flights are with one of their instructors. However, the instructor is included in the $229/hour. However however, currency training is at additional cost of $65/hour.

So..... the instructor riding along is required for insurance, I get that. But you're only charged if you want them to provide instruction? The rest of the time the instructor is literally just riding along, not instructing? Interesting business model. I have to assume that the instructor is the owner.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The buying a plane for a month of use really is a gamble. Remember you still have to pay sales tax, you run the risk of something failing and having to pay to repair it. Then you'll have to get insurance, and you'll still have to pay for gas, etc.
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At the end of all that, you then have to execute the most difficult piston multi-engine maneuver there is -selling the damn thing.
 
Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I'm definitely not going to buy an airplane. I don't think its worth the time and hassle to buy an airplane just to build a few hundred hours. What if something happens to one of the engines or both. It's not worth it in my mind. I'll probably go with Great Lakes Air Ventures.
 
I worked full time as a software developer during college. It afforded me the ability to rent a Duchess and fly girls/friends to various places for lunch, dinner, or whatever. By the time I graduated college and finished up my CFI/CFII/MEI, I was one of only two instructors with the multi time to meet the insurance requirements to instruct in the school's twin. So I spent most of my instructing days doing so in the twin, and my multi time increased rapidly.
 
You can buy a plane in a short amount of time, if you have the money. But to sell it in a short amount of time, you have to drastically reduce the price. Ive seen offers of 1/2, on the ramp, here to day, accepted because they just wanted it gone. So the idea you can buy a plane, fly it for a month and sell it for what you paid for it is not realistic.
 
Begged, borrowed, and stole...then started flying single-pilot in a C90 at a local drop zone (after flying their C208 for a couple of seasons)
 
hook_dupin said:
At the end of all that, you then have to execute the most difficult piston multi-engine maneuver there is -selling the damn thing.
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Fortunately for PoAers Ted seems extraordinarily adept at matchmaking twin engine airplanes and new owners...but not sure even he would want to take on finding a new mate for a clapped out Apache timebuilder.
 
GRG55 said:
Fortunately for PoAers Ted seems extraordinarily adept at matchmaking twin engine airplanes and new owners...but not sure even he would want to take on finding a new mate for a clapped out Apache timebuilder.
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About a year ago I would've had a great candidate for him in a '56 310. :)
 
I bought an out of annual 1954 Apache for $12,000 ( 7/2016) and have it flying great after prop inspections and an owner assisted annual for a total investment of $16,000. After I get 100 or so hours on it I will sell for $23,000 or I will keep it. Great plane on $50/hour of unleaded. Insurance $1000/year, hangar $1200/year. My MEI teaches in his Apache and for 30 years has averaged 4000 hours between overhauls on unleaded and has over 30,000 hours on his Apache. So there is definitely hope for having a reliable older twin.
 
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I built twin time on someone elses nickel. After putting 3000 hours on singles in Alaska.
 
Justin T. Dix said:
I bought an out of annual 1954 Apache for $12,000 ( 7/2016) and have it flying great after prop inspections and an owner assisted annual for a total investment of $16,000. After I get 100 or so hours on it I will sell for $23,000 or I will keep it. Great plane on $50/hour of unleaded. Insurance $1000/year, hangar $1200/year. My MEI teaches in his Apache and for 30 years has averaged 4000 hours between overhauls on unleaded and has over 30,000 hours on his Apache. So there is definitely hope for having a reliable older twin.
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Bringing an out of annual 1950s Apache for 4 AMUS? What kind of lead, 0.5 or 0.7mm? LOL I 'm just playing. That's cheap. Not what I would consider typical of such a scenario. Good for you though.
 
No ****. They want 330/hr for a twin Comanche around atlanta. Lol....
 
flight2000 said:
Well that link is dead, but these still work:

http://www.rmflight.com/n2882c---seminole.html
http://www.rmflight.com/n144ru---seminole.html

And they have a C310J for $239 an hour :eek: ... http://www.rmflight.com/n3162l---310j.html

Someone probably updated the website and changed the URL. Still shows $189 for the Seminole's.

Cheers,
Brian
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Interesting. Were those linked from the front page, because when I checked from a mobile browser, only the sim and the SE piper were showing up if you followed the front page link.

I'll try again later.
 
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