[NA]LAN Cam?[NA]

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
20,323
Location
west Texas
Display Name
Display name:
Dave Taylor
There was a breakin in our little town this week. Yes, the place is going to the dogs, and I am thinking my business will be next.
So I figure I want a couple of cameras at the shop, and want to be able to scan the property using my computer at home, 1500 feet away.

There is no internet access at the shop.
I do have at least one twisted pair of ordinary phone lines available between the two places.

What do I need to connect my camera to my computer? I dont really want to buy someone's 'system', I'd rather cobble somethign together myself.
 
1500' is kinda far for wireless, but that would probably be my first choice. External antennas and a couple of 802.11something endpoints.

Computer in your shop, an appropriate video card w/software, and the cameras is all it should take. There is a company named Q-see (www.q-see.com) that makes video cards w/recording software. About $150 for the card+software, everything else extra.
 
Dave,
You don't have any resident or visiting big dogs that overnight with you? I would think that deterent would prove more effective than a webcam. However, a webcam to capture and post the mayhem when some moron does break in would be great entertainment.
 
wsuffa said:
1500' is kinda far for wireless, but that would probably be my first choice. External antennas and a couple of 802.11something endpoints.
Click to expand...

FYI:
The record LAN connection is 125miles 2.4GHZ 802.11b
http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/31/unamplified-wifi-distance-record-set-at-125-miles/

You can extend the range of WI-FI with some direction antennas mounted and aimed at each other as well. Make sure that you also put up sign that say you are video recording. If the crooks don't know you will still get broken into and have to deal with trying to catch them. If they see that sign they may just go down the road where they won't be recorded.
 
Thanks guys, sorry Greg if I let those big dogs roam, they would likely cause more damage than the burglers.

Lets think about a different way to do this using only the unused twisted pair of phone lines (mine).

Can a camera transmit a signal 1500' to the house on these wires?
How can I capture that signal and put it on... the computer, the TV, another device?

I will also want to have a digital recording device (probably near the camera)
capable of 24hrs capacity, in parallel with the signal sent to the house.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks guys, sorry Greg if I let those big dogs roam, they would likely cause more damage than the burglers.

Lets think about a different way to do this using only the unused twisted pair of phone lines (mine).

Can a camera transmit a signal 1500' to the house on these wires?
How can I capture that signal and put it on... the computer, the TV, another device?

I will also want to have a digital recording device (probably near the camera)
capable of 24hrs capacity, in parallel with the signal sent to the house.
Click to expand...

Twisted pair would not be great for baseband video, it would be too losey, you would really need coax at that point. What would work really well is the Motorola Canopy access point. You would need two and they work in unlicensed 2.4GHz spectrum with ethernet on the outputs. But the cost would be more than you probably want to spend.

Why not just stick with 802.11 and get a couple of direction antennas? http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/antennas_2400_out_directional.php some are as low as $50 a piece and you can cover that 1500 feet as long as you have line of site.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I will also want to have a digital recording device (probably near the camera)
capable of 24hrs capacity, in parallel with the signal sent to the house.
Click to expand...

Our dive shop was broken into and the burglers stole the video tapes from teh security system along with otehr stuff. BTW they left the camera.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks guys, sorry Greg if I let those big dogs roam, they would likely cause more damage than the burglers.

Lets think about a different way to do this using only the unused twisted pair of phone lines (mine).

Can a camera transmit a signal 1500' to the house on these wires?
Click to expand...
Not video. You can probably rig some kind of modem connection to give you slow-speed digital. You probably won't be able to run high-speed lan stuff.

How can I capture that signal and put it on... the computer, the TV, another device?
Click to expand...

That's where a video capture card comes is. You can get cards at various computer stores (but probably won't include software for remote viewing). You can also get security-type capture cards like this: http://www.qps-inc.com/Merchant2/me...Code=Q&Product_Code=QSPDVR04&Category_Code=SS

Once it's in the computer, easy to store and manipulate remotely. I've used that card successfully before for a similar application.

I will also want to have a digital recording device (probably near the camera)
capable of 24hrs capacity, in parallel with the signal sent to the house.
Click to expand...

If you get a DVR card like the Q-See (and there are other brands, too), you will get the DVR recording capabilities in the computer.
 
I've shot WiFi signals over 20 miles with $1,000 parabolic dishes. I've also shot WiFi over three miles with $25 directional antennas (14dBi yagis). It's not particularly difficult.

You're better off putting a cheap alarm system in for deterrence. It's too easy to take out a camera and people are less identifiable than one might think. There is no "magic" enhancement software like CSI for most systems.
 
Dave, like hey've said here, you just need to set up two nice directional antennas, the distance you are dealing with is absolutely no problem.

As a side benefit, you can then have the 'Net access available at the shop (for those rare occasions you might want it there).

Couple a these: http://cgi.ebay.com/19-dBi-Paraboli...713011934QQcategoryZ44996QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And a couple of Wifi bridges.

Oh. I have another idea.

Is the pair you have available used for nothing else?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Correct. There may be a couple of pairs, I'll have to check.
Click to expand...

I am trying to figure out whether one can use a couple of 3Com SDSL modems as a bridge (one on each end of a dry pair). I am pretty darned certain that I can, in which case (assuming I can find both of the modems), they are yours.

Or.

Maybe something even better...

...we'll see...

We have the technology... we can rebuild him, better than before.
 
sounds like a weekend 'business trip' to west texas to me!
i'll start gathering required items (beer, steak)
 
SCCutler said:
I am trying to figure out whether one can use a couple of 3Com SDSL modems as a bridge (one on each end of a dry pair). I am pretty darned certain that I can, in which case (assuming I can find both of the modems), they are yours.

Or.

Maybe something even better...

...we'll see...

We have the technology... we can rebuild him, better than before.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it works. I've done it for a school system. It's actually a slick idea for short runs of twisted pair like this.
 
Brian Austin said:
Yeah, it works. I've done it for a school system. It's actually a slick idea for short runs of twisted pair like this.
Click to expand...

Well, then, by Golly I have it.

I have at least three 3Com SDSL modems, and also have a Netopia SDSL Router; seems to me that I can plug one of the modems into the router in his house (the one connected to his wireless high-speed connection), and put the Netopia in the "shop," connected to the house by the dry pair.

Netopia serves both as a hub (it has 8 ports) and as a router (tho' guess he really does not need routing on that end... wonder if it can be put into pure switch mode? Gotta check that out; in any event, could just use two SDSL modems and an inexpensive switch onthe shop side).

Speed? Should give at least 768/768, but probably, at that short distance, more.

I love a challenge!
 
SCCutler said:
I have at least three 3Com SDSL modems, and also have a Netopia SDSL Router; seems to me that I can plug one of the modems into the router in his house (the one connected to his wireless high-speed connection), and put the Netopia in the "shop," connected to the house by the dry pair.

Netopia serves both as a hub (it has 8 ports) and as a router (tho' guess he really does not need routing on that end... wonder if it can be put into pure switch mode? Gotta check that out; in any event, could just use two SDSL modems and an inexpensive switch onthe shop side).
Click to expand...
Personally, I'd just use the 3Com's. IIRC, they are set up as bridges. Avoid the routing unless absolutely necessary. All it's going to do is add a level of complexity that could be avoided in that environment.

SCCutler said:
Speed? Should give at least 768/768, but probably, at that short distance, more.

I love a challenge!
Click to expand...
Depends on the condition of the wires, too. It doesn't sound unreasonable, though.
 
SCCutler said:
I love a challenge!
Click to expand...

You guys are talking code now but "I love to learn".

hey what are the legal issues of a camera in the workplace (Tx).
Is it like the recording of phone conversations?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
You guys are talking code now but "I love to learn".

hey what are the legal issues of a camera in the workplace (Tx).
Is it like the recording of phone conversations?
Click to expand...

I just got done writing a policy for putting cameras in our library. If Texas is anything like Illinois there should not be a problem as along as the cameras are clearly visible and only videoing a public place where there is no expectation of privacy i.e. in the bathroom is a big no no, but the door going into the bathroom from the outside of the bathroom is ok. Generally you are not recording sound so this should not be an issue.
 
One other possibility I forgot to consider: How about HPNA?

Anyone? Anyone?

Beuller?

edit:

Dave:

If I cannot make the SDSL adapters work (or if I can't find the fool things...), this would be a likely plug-and-play solution: http://www.netsys-direct.com/proddetail.php?prod=NH-300EP&cat=11 ; couple of these, and an inexpensive switching hub at the office, and you're up and running.

By the way, does he "dry pair" (telephone line) terminate anywhere near your broadband connection?

===

Oh yeah, employees have no expectation of privacy in the workplace, no legal problem, but tread lightly here.
 
Last edited:
SCCutler said:
One other possibility I forgot to consider: How about HPNA?

Anyone? Anyone?

Beuller?
Click to expand...

The data rates for HPNA are pretty good, on the order of 10MBps but what isn't the transmissions similiar ethernet? So would not the same limitation apply? But 1500 feet for ethernet would work but he only has twisted pair right? Don't you need all four conductors for HPNA?

Too bad you did not think of that one yesterday. I am a wide area guy, one of my co-workers is doing a lot of the home networking stuff. He was the President of the OSGi and now sits on the Bluetooth SIG BoD. I could have asked him.
 
Last edited:
smigaldi said:
I just got done writing a policy for putting cameras in our library. If Texas is anything like Illinois there should not be a problem as along as the cameras are clearly visible and only videoing a public place where there is no expectation of privacy i.e. in the bathroom is a big no no, but the door going into the bathroom from the outside of the bathroom is ok. Generally you are not recording sound so this should not be an issue.
Click to expand...

OK thanks, Ive seen lots of businesses with them and figured its ok.
Bathroom?? WT...?:hairraise:
 
SCCutler said:
By the way, does he "dry pair" (telephone line) terminate anywhere near your broadband connection?
Oh yeah, employees have no expectation of privacy in the workplace, no legal problem, but tread lightly here.
Click to expand...

Yes

Mainly I will point them at access places or places likely to be burgled.

I am also looking for a Driveway Doorbell. That would give me a 3 minute jump on things.
 
OK, Dave, we know we can do it, now just to find out whether we do it with hardware gathering dust on the shelf, or you have to spend money.

Here's the $$ solution I like best:

http://www.netsys-direct.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-200EKIT&cat=9

seems like it rings the bell nicely; calls for one twisted pair, handles much greater distances than we are talking about, and gives good data rates.


But let me look for the "Copper Rockets" first.
 
SCCutler said:
If I cannot make the SDSL adapters work (or if I can't find the fool things...),
Click to expand...

If you can only find one, I have an old SDSL modem/router here (Covad - blech). I also have (ta-da) an old Paradyne T-1 CSU/DSU modem and matching Cisco 1000 router sitting here gathering dust. If you can find another Paradyne unit (should be real cheap on Ebay), this ought to work if there are 2-pair. You'll get T-1 speed....
 
wsuffa said:
If you can only find one, I have an old SDSL modem/router here (Covad - blech). I also have (ta-da) an old Paradyne T-1 CSU/DSU modem and matching Cisco 1000 router sitting here gathering dust. If you can find another Paradyne unit (should be real cheap on Ebay), this ought to work if there are 2-pair. You'll get T-1 speed....
Click to expand...

I have one of those Covads too (bet it's a Netopia 7200t); could certainly use mine with the copper rocket i know I have, but uncertain whether I can turn off the NAT function, make it work as a bridge... may have to look into that.

It's the kind of hardware that looks too valuable to throw away, but has no other use...
 
SCCutler said:
I have one of those Covads too (bet it's a Netopia 7200t); could certainly use mine with the copper rocket i know I have,..
Click to expand...

Yep, 7200t.

When I first moved down here I signed on with Covad. SBC screwed 'em to the point (leaving them on a crappy pair from CO to my demarc) that they were totally unreliable and unusable (I could hear hum on the line when it was "dry" - the SBC lineman claimed not to hear it). SBC accomplished their goals: I ended up on SBC's service - lower data rate. TWC couldn't offer what I wanted.

This is part of the reason that I have great contempt for SBC, even though I understand their point of view, and the reason they wanted to scred Covad and its customers.
 
while you are at it mount some "fake" cameras so the crooks can't tell which one(s) are actually watching them.
 
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