[NA] Broadcast TV signal locally

CJones

CJones

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uHaveNoIdea
...or something that has similar results.

I'm trying to set up digital signage throughout facilities that range 200,000 and 1,000,000 sq ft.

I currently have displays (42-60" flat screen TVs) throughout the facility. I'm using a Raspberry Pi to boot up and load a webpage to display the content. Unfortunately, some of the content is too heavy for the RPi and it eventually crashes due to the browser running out of memory. After a few months of manually rebooting/logging in, the memory card bites the dust. Due to security requirements, I can't simply schedule the RPi to reboot and refresh everything and auto-load the webpage - it requires manual intervention to log in to display the content.

I'm looking for something where I can load the content on a single device (PC) and 'broadcast' that out to the TVs throughout the facility. I could use video-over-IP, but I'm worried about burdening the network, plus that requires a data line drop at each display point.

Is there a way to set up a small transmitter to transmit the content and use a low-power antenna at each TV to pick up the channel? Bonus points if I could 'broadcast' multiple types of content and have different TVs display different content.

I've been Google'ing and will continue to do so, but thought I would drop a note here for techies to point me in the right direction.

Thanks..
 
Dirt simple if you're OK with standard definition; if you need it to be HD (and I suspect you do), it's a pretty costly enterprise.

Honestly, the way you're doing it now is what I'd have thought to do.

Have you looked at the latest RasPi generation? Also, have you just been running it as a web page and, if so, have you considered a digital signage platform? And (if I am reading correctly), are you running static page, no live connection to the 'Net?
 
SCCutler said:
Dirt simple if you're OK with standard definition; if you need it to be HD (and I suspect you do), it's a pretty costly enterprise.

Honestly, the way you're doing it now is what I'd have thought to do.

Have you looked at the latest RasPi generation? Also, have you just been running it as a web page and, if so, have you considered a digital signage platform? And (if I am reading correctly), are you running static page, no live connection to the 'Net?
Click to expand...

SD would probably be OK. It's not showing a lot of graphics - just table data for the most part and no moving videos. The only reason I was looking for HD is because of the size of the displays (up to 60" so far).

I've tried the latest RPi model and it still bites the dust. I developed a web app in PHP that was built specifically for this use, and I can (and do) have RPis that will stay up and running for months on-end. But when corporate IT tried to replicate what I did, they added so much bloat to the page that Chromium and Midori both choke on the page refreshes after about 6 hours. Their 'solution' is to buy a dedicated PC (at 'only' $800 for a basic desktop box after "Service Request" costs) for each display. If I did that, I would have ~$5k wrapped up in 'signage' PCs at the facility I'm at right now. :mad2:
 
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This *could* work for you...

...knew a guy who used it in a club environment, worked OK.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005L9ZZ32

Can work with multiple receivers (but, oddly, it costs more to buy a single receiver than to buy a kit of transmitter and receiver).
 
SCCutler said:
This *could* work for you...

...knew a guy who used it in a club environment, worked OK.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005L9ZZ32

Can work with multiple receivers (but, oddly, it costs more to buy a single receiver than to buy a kit of transmitter and receiver).
Click to expand...

Yep. That's one of the devices I have been looking at. Biggest worry is the 150' range on it. But everything I'm finding is <=200' range, so that might just be something I'll have to deal with.

Thanks for the tips.
 
CJones said:
Yep. That's one of the devices I have been looking at. Biggest worry is the 150' range on it. But everything I'm finding is <=200' range, so that might just be something I'll have to deal with.

Thanks for the tips.
Click to expand...

Agree it's a worry. The fact that it is Wifi suggests it *might* work with a Wifi extender...
 
Video over IP over WiFi with a 1000 mW amp?

Rich
 
You could use a BrightSign box. I've only played with one for a short time but it seems to be specifically designed for what you want to do. You can get them with wireless modules to eliminate the data drop. www.brightsign.biz


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Apple TV with Airplay, but that is one to one. You can stream from a Android device, as well. Also, there is Chrome cast.
 
What about using a Thin Client at the TV and a Terminal Server (PC) back in the office? Not the cheapest but should work.....You might even be able to use the RPi as the thin client to save on some of the CapEx
 
As Todd mentioned, a Brightsign player would do it. Also, Broadsign makes an Android based player that is relatively inexpensive and would be perfect.
 
Here is what we use:

http://www.digitalsignage.com/

We velcro a small computer to the back of the screen then you connect all the units via wifi or Ethernet.

http://www.asus.com/EeeBox_PCs/EeeBox_PC_EB1012P/

You push the content to each machine from anywhere in the world then it is stored and runs on the local computer. We adapted if for special event usage setting up digital signage that continually needs to be updated on flat screens all around hotels and convention centers. I do know it can do video and whatever else you wanna run. Each display is independent or they can all be synced.

Not to sure on the technical side of the specifics as I have a few guys that do the actual programming but sounds like what you are looking for if you can at least get wifi at each screen. Only network usage is during the update of new content. If you are looking for a live stream...probably not the solution.

We are looking forward to this item being released and shipping for this application: $150 full computer that is an HDMI stick you can put in the back of the flatscreen.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html
 
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Shawn said:
Here is what we use:

http://www.digitalsignage.com/

We velcro a small computer to the back of the screen then you connect all the units via wifi or Ethernet.

http://www.asus.com/EeeBox_PCs/EeeBox_PC_EB1012P/

You push the content to each machine from anywhere in the world then it is stored and runs on the local computer. We adapted if for special event usage setting up digital signage that continually needs to be updated on flat screens all around hotels and convention centers. I do know it can do video and whatever else you wanna run. Each display is independent or they can all be synced.

Not to sure on the technical side of the specifics as I have a few guys that do the actual programming but sounds like what you are looking for if you can at least get wifi at each screen. Only network usage is during the update of new content. If you are looking for a live stream...probably not the solution.

We are looking forward to this item being released and shipping for this application: $150 full computer that is an HDMI stick you can put in the back of the flatscreen.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html
Click to expand...


I think the problem is the size of the place. OP would rather not run cable, and it exceeds the range of an ordinary WiFi router or AP.

I haven't been in that end of things for years, but I think the maximum EIRP for an omni antenna is 1,000 mW (1 watt), or 4 watts for a directional antenna. So what might (or might not) work could be propagating 1 watt EIRP from an omni antenna on the AP side, and using high-gain directional antennas on the standard adapters at the displays. A 6 dB antenna on a standard 100 mW adapter would produce 400 mW EIRP, if my memory serves me correctly, which might be enough to make it work.

Rich
 
Ugh.. I just wish they had taken my suggestion and built the display layer of the application with the least amount of overhead as possible. With my PHP version, I can (and do) have RPis that run for months on end without any problems. But corporate IT in their infinite wisdom took my idea and "improved" it to the point that it needs a device with a 3-4 figure price tag to operate. :mad2:

Still searching for the optimal solution. The content needs to update automatically - think refreshing a webpage every 5 minutes with updated information.

Trying to stay off of the LAN that is wired into the building, but might have to go that route as I can't seem to find a 'broadcast' solution that will cover the distances that I need.
 
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ROFL. I'm cracking up that your IT guys decided that making it crash with crap code, was an improvement.

I'm getting the distinct feel there is a turf war going on or you stepped on someone's toes.
 
It's hard to do "really cheap". We have a series of dashboards throughout our HQ that project onto walls. The "page" is certainly thick, we're not talking about 5 minute hard refreshes, more like nearly instantly data updates with AJAX calls.

My dashboard is the only one that works reliably :)

It's a small intel computer, probably under $500, running Ubuntu. The dashboard is displayed in Chrome and updates are live with AJAX calls (and maybe web sockets). There is a chrome extension set to hard refresh the page about once every 30 minutes (not really needed, but keeps things rolling if the javascript ****s out).

The machine ultimately drives a projector which projects a giant dashboard onto the wall. The machine has a USB IR blaster hooked up to it which points at the projector. There is a cron job that automatically turns the projector on and off. On at 8am and off at 5pm.

Works well..but by the time you buy the computer, projector, blaster, etc, you're easily up to a thousand dollars.

Let me know what you figure out. Way I figure is if the data actually matters and makes a business impact a thousand dollars is pretty cheap...You guys probably have more money then we do :)
 
denverpilot said:
ROFL. I'm cracking up that your IT guys decided that making it crash with crap code, was an improvement.

I'm getting the distinct feel there is a turf war going on or you stepped on someone's toes.
Click to expand...
Nailed it. Several years of headaches to get to the point we're at now.
 
CJones said:
Nailed it. Several years of headaches to get to the point we're at now.
Click to expand...


Well they haven't fired the IT folks or you, so both must've made some contribution to the bottom line that's significantly more important than these wall boards. :)

We put a PC with a monitor facing out the window of the CTO's office for the important stuff he wanted displayed. I've never seen anyone look at it other than him and have any reaction to it. Heh.

Jesse is being too modest. Didn't you build a full sized stop light for your code build status, Jesse? ;)

If it can email or SMS the folks that care, putting it on a wall is often just window-dressing.

In the case of a turf war, I'd just kick it further upstairs. If someone thinks it's business critical they'll beat the other department leader over the head with a golf club on the course or something, and they'll figure out who's paying for your newly required WiFi network that'll carry the video around and be separated from the normal LAN for whatever reasons the IT group has come up with, and define who's going to maintain it all.

Or they'll go beat whoever is in the way over the head with the same golf clubs. Whatever works.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time engineering around an arbitrary limitation thrown up by some other group. I'd just go tell the decision-maker above them that they're in the way if his or her project. If they have a real concern the decision maker will come away from the encounter with a new education. If they're making crap up and stopping something business critical they'll get body slammed by someone else way more important than me.

And that's coming from the so-called "IT manager". Let the VPs enjoy a little weenie wagging at each other to see who's focused on stuff that actually makes the business run.

That'll get it sorted out pretty quick.

Waste of time fighting a network turf war from below. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Helps a lot if you can tie the loss of the wall boards to a loss of revenue. Or a ****ed off customer. You're way down in the weeds of "who cares" budget numbers using a RaspberryPi as a business tool. :)
 
jesse said:
It's hard to do "really cheap". We have a series of dashboards throughout our HQ that project onto walls. The "page" is certainly thick, we're not talking about 5 minute hard refreshes, more like nearly instantly data updates with AJAX calls.

My dashboard is the only one that works reliably :)

It's a small intel computer, probably under $500, running Ubuntu. The dashboard is displayed in Chrome and updates are live with AJAX calls (and maybe web sockets). There is a chrome extension set to hard refresh the page about once every 30 minutes (not really needed, but keeps things rolling if the javascript ****s out).

The machine ultimately drives a projector which projects a giant dashboard onto the wall. The machine has a USB IR blaster hooked up to it which points at the projector. There is a cron job that automatically turns the projector on and off. On at 8am and off at 5pm.

Works well..but by the time you buy the computer, projector, blaster, etc, you're easily up to a thousand dollars.

Let me know what you figure out. Way I figure is if the data actually matters and makes a business impact a thousand dollars is pretty cheap...You guys probably have more money then we do :)
Click to expand...

Pretty slick.

I have the RPis that are running my PHP solution pinging the web server in the background every 15 minutes or so. If the ping fails, it sets a flag and continues pinging until it gets a successful return. Once it gets a successful return, it closes the browser and re-opens it to the dashboard.
 
denverpilot said:
Well they haven't fired the IT folks or you, so both must've made some contribution to the bottom line that's significantly more important than these wall boards. :)

We put a PC with a monitor facing out the window of the CTO's office for the important stuff he wanted displayed. I've never seen anyone look at it other than him and have any reaction to it. Heh.

Jesse is being too modest. Didn't you build a full sized stop light for your code build status, Jesse? ;)

If it can email or SMS the folks that care, putting it on a wall is often just window-dressing.

In the case of a turf war, I'd just kick it further upstairs. If someone thinks it's business critical they'll beat the other department leader over the head with a golf club on the course or something, and they'll figure out who's paying for your newly required WiFi network that'll carry the video around and be separated from the normal LAN for whatever reasons the IT group has come up with, and define who's going to maintain it all.

Or they'll go beat whoever is in the way over the head with the same golf clubs. Whatever works.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time engineering around an arbitrary limitation thrown up by some other group. I'd just go tell the decision-maker above them that they're in the way if his or her project. If they have a real concern the decision maker will come away from the encounter with a new education. If they're making crap up and stopping something business critical they'll get body slammed by someone else way more important than me.

And that's coming from the so-called "IT manager". Let the VPs enjoy a little weenie wagging at each other to see who's focused on stuff that actually makes the business run.

That'll get it sorted out pretty quick.

Waste of time fighting a network turf war from below. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Helps a lot if you can tie the loss of the wall boards to a loss of revenue. Or a ****ed off customer. You're way down in the weeds of "who cares" budget numbers using a RaspberryPi as a business tool. :)
Click to expand...

Heh. I chuckled when I read this. I agree with the above. Everything you say makes sense, and everything you say has been attempted, which is why...... http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80490 ;)
 
You can solve the long distance wireless by going cellular, which also keeps it off the primary network. Check out Telit http://www.telit.com/

You can drop a 3G modem in each one and populate content that way. Surprisingly less expensive than you might think. Add one of their USB modem modules to an embedded PC (like the Intel model mentioned above) running something like the digitalsignage.com solution also mentioned above and you're cooking with gas.
 
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