N/A - A Fuel Additive that Actually Works

RJM62

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Geek on the Hill
Being a tightwad thrifty fellow who's handy with a wrench, I decided to change my power steering pump yesterday, then went to the auto parts store for some Gunk so I could clean the engine compartment and check for leaks, along with a few other odds and ends.

While I was there, I noticed a fuel additive named Cataclean that claimed to clean the catalytic converter. I'd been experiencing some clogged-cat type sluggishness going up the hills lately, so I decided to give it a shot. (Good thing I didn't look at the price: It was $24.00 a can. :eek: I never would have bought it if I'd checked the price first.)

The label said to wait until the gas tank had about 4 gallons, pour the stuff in, drive the car for 10 or 15 miles, and then refuel. Well, I had about 5 gallons and didn't feel like burning off a gallon, and I had to go to Tractor Supply (26.2 miles away) before they closed to buy a jacket they had on sale ($30.00 off -- woo hoo!), yesterday only. So I decided to pour the stuff in, drive to TSC and back, and then refuel.

After about ten miles along one of the winding, twisting, secondary roads here, I started feeling a bit of difference up the hill. Just in my head, I thought, and finished the rest of the trip (all downhill). I bought the jacket, picked up a few groceries at Price Chopper, and went back home.

On the return trip, I knew that the stuff had done something because my old car felt like a new car going up the hill. So this morning, I took it up another, steeper road. No doubt about it: The old lady was acting like a young one.

So I refueled and stopped at the auto parts store to tell the owner that the stuff actually works. He nodded his head and said that practically everyone who buys it comes back to tell him that. Only one guy complained that it didn't work -- and he didn't use it properly (he added it to a full tank of gas).

So here's my free plug for Cataclean. It claims to be a fuel system and exhaust system cleaner, and I must say, it's the first additive I've used in all my years of driving that made such an immediate, dramatic difference.

-Rich
 
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Any chance yu saved the bottle and can share what's in it?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Any chance yu saved the bottle and can share what's in it?
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All it says is "petroleum distillates." That's a pretty broad term.

-Rich

EDIT: There ya go. Troy found it.
 

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TangoWhiskey said:
Amazon.com reviews concur... But did you see the bottle said to use it every three months? Thanks for the PIREP!
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You're welcome.

I did see the four-times-a-year thing. I may just do it, too, at least once more in three months, to see if it still makes a difference. The improvement this first time is impressive.

The guy in the store said most people use it either when their car starts to feel sluggish, or after it fails the state inspection. We don't actually have real "emissions" inspections in this county like they do in The City, but the machine does read the OBD2 data; and I guess bad readings can cause a car to fail. Even at $24.00 / can, that's a lot cheaper than replacing even an O2 sensor, never mind a cat.

-Rich
 
The Xylene and Acetone will do the job on the catalytic converter, you should have paid $2.49.
 
Although I have to say, I'm still pretty intruigued by this stuff. My 13yo Saturn has gotten noticeably sluggish the last 6 months or so.
 
If you have a coked up system, if you run a good slug of acetone and xylene through it, it's gonna look shiny new, especially if you do it behind X-66. If your converter is clogged, I will bet your O2 sensor is not correct as well. Run higher rpm/low load while you're running this fuel. Another one that is fun is Glowplug Fuel, that even worked on melting the lead out of them back in the days you could still buy leaded gas at the pump.
 
Wonder how it would do cleaning the soot out of the exhaust of a big V8 F700 fuel truck that never gets above 5 mph crawling around the ramp. Did a night fueling last week and noticed sparks coming out of it.
 
Henning said:
If you have a coked up system, if you run a good slug of acetone and xylene through it, it's gonna look shiny new, especially if you do it behind X-66. If your converter is clogged, I will bet your O2 sensor is not correct as well. Run higher rpm/low load while you're running this fuel. Another one that is fun is Glowplug Fuel, that even worked on melting the lead out of them back in the days you could still buy leaded gas at the pump.
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If I recall correctly from my RC / high-school chemistry days, Glow Fuel creates a catalytic reaction of its own, which is why those tiny engines can generate such incredible power for their size and weight. I wonder how much you'd have to add to a car's fuel tank before everything downstream of the manifold either explodes or melts into a puddle of molten steel.

-Rich
 
On occasion when we sell an engine to a retail car owner or his/her mechanic shop, we'll get a report back initiating a claim against the warranty that the engine is not developing much power. In the past, we took a long look at the engine to see where the fault might be.

Now I'm wondering if we shouldn't ask the mechanic to also investigate the exhaust system. I'm betting many of them don't included this check in their post install QA list.
 
RJM62 said:
If I recall correctly from my RC / high-school chemistry days, Glow Fuel creates a catalytic reaction of its own,
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Glow fuel contains nitromethane which brings some of it's own O2 which let you put more fuel in than the O2 in the air would normally burn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitromethane#As_an_engine_fuel

In general, injector cleaners are the ONLY thing in the wishful thinking isle of the auto parts store that I would consider buying. Sometimes they actually work.
 
RJM62 said:
If I recall correctly from my RC / high-school chemistry days, Glow Fuel creates a catalytic reaction of its own, which is why those tiny engines can generate such incredible power for their size and weight. I wonder how much you'd have to add to a car's fuel tank before everything downstream of the manifold either explodes or melts into a puddle of molten steel.

-Rich
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Umm, no.

Catalytic converters catalyze reactions. Tiny engines generate a lot of power by designing for a high redline (usually with direct acting overhead cams and short strokes), and winding them up. The catalytic converter generates no power whatsoever on its own. It just gets hot.

A catalytic converter needs fuel and oxygen to work. If there is no air because the oxygen sensor is fouled and is causing a consistently rich mixture, the catalytic converter will do nothing but collect carbon. Part of the computer system's function is to cycle the engine rapidly between lean and rich, to feed the catalyst.

What your additive is probably doing is providing oxygen. Nothing more. You could have done it with ethanol (which is my guess at what it really is). Get the catalyst hot enough, and it will burn stuff off. It's the same thing you do to clean fouled aircraft spark plugs.

A properly working electronic fuel system should never foul the cat. Your engine is trying to tell you something, and you're putting a band-aid on it and ignoring it.

And FYI, poor power can be caused by a lot of things, a fouled cat being only one. You can TEST for this. Get a vacuum gauge and connect it to the brake booster or an empty nipple on the vacuum tree. With the engine unloaded (this is important), in park or neutral with the parking brake set, measure vacuum at idle and at 2500 RPM. At idle, you should get 17-22 inches, less one inch per thousand feet above sea level. At 2500 RPM, the vacuum should be higher and steady. If it drops, suspect a fouled cat. If it doesn't, you have another problem. I'd recommend a full vacuum test, as it can tell you quite a lot. There are a bunch of how-tos (including videos) on the net. You can diagnose poor piston rings, bad valves, poor ignition, and several other things with this test.

I've seen poor power complaints caused by as little as an internally corroded $15 battery cable. Those very often don't flip the MIL. Even an oxygen sensor won't set a light in most vehicles older than 1995 or 1996.

And if the check engine light happens to be lit, fix that.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Umm, no.

Catalytic converters catalyze reactions. Tiny engines generate a lot of power by designing for a high redline (usually with direct acting overhead cams and short strokes), and winding them up. The catalytic converter generates no power whatsoever on its own. It just gets hot.

A catalytic converter needs fuel and oxygen to work. If there is no air because the oxygen sensor is fouled and is causing a consistently rich mixture, the catalytic converter will do nothing but collect carbon. Part of the computer system's function is to cycle the engine rapidly between lean and rich, to feed the catalyst.

What your additive is probably doing is providing oxygen. Nothing more. You could have done it with ethanol (which is my guess at what it really is). Get the catalyst hot enough, and it will burn stuff off. It's the same thing you do to clean fouled aircraft spark plugs.

A properly working electronic fuel system should never foul the cat. Your engine is trying to tell you something, and you're putting a band-aid on it and ignoring it.

And FYI, poor power can be caused by a lot of things, a fouled cat being only one. You can TEST for this. Get a vacuum gauge and connect it to the brake booster or an empty nipple on the vacuum tree. With the engine unloaded (this is important), in park or neutral with the parking brake set, measure vacuum at idle and at 2500 RPM. At idle, you should get 17-22 inches, less one inch per thousand feet above sea level. At 2500 RPM, the vacuum should be higher and steady. If it drops, suspect a fouled cat. If it doesn't, you have another problem. I'd recommend a full vacuum test, as it can tell you quite a lot. There are a bunch of how-tos (including videos) on the net. You can diagnose poor piston rings, bad valves, poor ignition, and several other things with this test.

I've seen poor power complaints caused by as little as an internally corroded $15 battery cable. Those very often don't flip the MIL. Even an oxygen sensor won't set a light in most vehicles older than 1995 or 1996.

And if the check engine light happens to be lit, fix that.
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No ethanol in Cataclean, according to the tariff document:

30 to 60 percent Xylene (CAS # 1330-27-7) 10 to 30 percent Propan-2-ol (CAS # 67-30-0) 10 to 30 percent Acetone (CAS # 67-64-1)
5 to 10 percent Distillates (Petroleum) Hydrotreated light (CAS # 64742-47-8)
​
Also no check engine light, and the car actually passed inspection a few months ago. There was a bad O2 sensor a couple of years ago, but that's been fixed.

As for other possible causes...

I don't think there are any vacuum leaks. I changed the valve cover gasket myself not long ago and everything was fine after that, and my mechanic checked a few weeks ago when I had him replace some doohickey in the fuel system that necessitated taking the intake system apart.

Also, another mechanic at Firestone checked my brake system at my request last week (they were running a special on brake jobs, and I've had good luck with Firestone for things like that). He found only that it needed front pads, which I already knew. Firestone usually checks the vacuum as part of a brake inspection (at least the guy at the one I use does).

I did find an electrical ground problem that I fixed myself, but it only affected the fog / driving lights. The fuel pump was checked a few months ago when the tank was replaced, the air filter is pretty new, and the plugs have maybe 25K on them. I winterized it myself a few weeks ago and there was no oil in the coolant or other signs of a head gasket problem.

One thing I haven't done is check the compression, which I probably should do at some point.

-Rich
 
MAKG1 said:
And FYI, poor power can be caused by a lot of things, a fouled cat being only one. You can TEST for this. Get a vacuum gauge and connect it to the brake booster or an empty nipple on the vacuum tree. With the engine unloaded (this is important), in park or neutral with the parking brake set, measure vacuum at idle and at 2500 RPM. At idle, you should get 17-22 inches, less one inch per thousand feet above sea level. At 2500 RPM, the vacuum should be higher and steady. If it drops, suspect a fouled cat. If it doesn't, you have another problem. I'd recommend a full vacuum test, as it can tell you quite a lot. There are a bunch of how-tos (including videos) on the net. You can diagnose poor piston rings, bad valves, poor ignition, and several other things with this test.
Click to expand...

Interesting to note that some guys still know this stuff. I figured that by now all the mechanics would be letting the computer figure out what they should do. We used to use vacuum gauges way back in the Dark Ages to diagnose a sick engine. Here's an interesting interactive link on vacuum gauge interpretation:
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm


Dan
 
I'm an amateur mechanic, like I'm an amateur pilot.

But I do keep several older and high mileage vehicles on the road, both with and without computer controls.

If you've ever tried to tune up a carbureted inline-6 without a vacuum gauge, you've had a lesson in utter futility. The GM manual says it's possible, but it isn't.

And when you're considering spending $1000 or so on engine work, you want to know what you're getting into before turning any bolts. That means vacuum and leakdown tests, at least (I find I don't get much information out of a cranking compression test, that I don't get better from a leakdown test).

These take time, which is why the pros don't like to do them. It's trading off certain costs now against possible (even likely) costs in the future.
 
RJM62 said:
If I recall correctly from my RC / high-school chemistry days, Glow Fuel creates a catalytic reaction of its own, which is why those tiny engines can generate such incredible power for their size and weight. I wonder how much you'd have to add to a car's fuel tank before everything downstream of the manifold either explodes or melts into a puddle of molten steel.

-Rich
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A whole lot, nitromethane and nitrobenzene carry their own oxygen which is why you can pour so much into such a small space because it requires so little air at 1.7:1. Nitromethane actually has less energy per pound than gasoline, but you can stick so much more of it into the cylinder that you can make more power from the same displacement.
 
RJM62 said:
I don't think there are any vacuum leaks. I changed the valve cover gasket myself not long ago and everything was fine after that, and my mechanic checked a few weeks ago when I had him replace some doohickey in the fuel system that necessitated taking the intake system apart.
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Some doohickey in the fuel system? Maybe a regulator?

A blown vacuum regulator will dump stupid amounts of fuel into the intake. Generally only into one or two cylinders, so the engine will continue to run. Just poorly. If it's missing (likely), the fuel will make its way into the oil and the cat. One very simple test for this is to idle the engine, shut it off, and immediately remove the regulator vacuum line from the manifold. Any hint of fuel in that line condemns the regulator (it will usually let a couple of drops out).

And your mechanic must have disturbed all the work you did, if you have a V-type engine.

If he's replacing injectors, the cat problems may be related. If he's replacing O-rings, he's chasing vacuum leaks. There's not much else in there (unless this is a carbureted engine). Maybe a cold start valve.
 
MAKG1 said:
Some doohickey in the fuel system? Maybe a regulator?

A blown vacuum regulator will dump stupid amounts of fuel into the intake. Generally only into one or two cylinders, so the engine will continue to run. Just poorly. If it's missing (likely), the fuel will make its way into the oil and the cat. One very simple test for this is to idle the engine, shut it off, and immediately remove the regulator vacuum line from the manifold. Any hint of fuel in that line condemns the regulator (it will usually let a couple of drops out).

And your mechanic must have disturbed all the work you did, if you have a V-type engine.

If he's replacing injectors, the cat problems may be related. If he's replacing O-rings, he's chasing vacuum leaks. There's not much else in there (unless this is a carbureted engine). Maybe a cold start valve.
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Actually, it was just a leaky fuel fitting that he changed. Basically just a three-inch piece of fuel line, when you get right down to it. Nothing fancy. The replacement didn't affect the car's performance once way or the other. I just noticed a little whiff of fuel smell when I was farting around under the hood tracing the wiring to isolate the electrical problem with the fog / driving lights, and I found a tiny bit of seepage at one of the fuel fittings. I had the mechanic replace it for safety reasons.

It was a simple job, but it required pulling off a lot of the intake system; and I had other (paying) things that I needed to get done that day. It didn't make sense to put off doing three hundred bucks in revenue work to save the hundred that he charged me. I may be a tightwad, but I'm not stupid.

I also had him replace any hoses that looked questionable while he was in there, but just because it seemed dumb not to since he had everything taken apart anyway. Rubber's cheaper than time. But again, the car's performance was neither better nor worse afterwards. The degradation on hills had been building up for a couple of months. It wasn't a sudden thing.

I really can't think of any other explanation other than that the Cataclean actually works. The improvement was too sudden.

The car's a 2000 Kia Sportage, by the way. It seems to have been pretty well maintained by the previous owners, but hey, it's still a 13-year-old car. I bought it a couple of years ago for $1,850.00, and dollar-for-dollar, it's been the best deal on a car I've ever made, thank God.

-Rich
 
Even if it did "work" (which I'm skeptical and I think you know why),it only fixed the symptom. Cats don't just plug. Something plugs them.

It's an OBD-II car. Do you have any pending codes? Do you know the MIL works (and most OBD-II cars have two of them -- a "service engine soon" light and a "service engine NOW" light)? The bulbs should be lit prior to engine start. It's also a good idea to run the engine-running self-test even in the absence of a code, under the cirucmstances.

If you were closer, I'd haul my laptop, and diagnosis kit out. But 3000 miles is a little far for that.

Something is wrong, beyond the plugged cat. Sometimes (and much more often than you might think), the problem ends up being something really simple like a broken ground strap.

The best deal I got was a 1986 Bronco II with 120,000 miles on it, which I drove to 230,000 and then sold. The previous owner paid $191 in DMV fines and then GAVE it to me because he didn't want to be seen in it (yes, it was that ugly).
 
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Now wait, it can cure both the cause and symptom by clearing the clog and cleaning the O2 sensors. It's basically the same thing I've been doing with lacquer thinner since these systems first came out on the 411 Volkswagons and it works much of the time.
 
Henning said:
Now wait, it can cure both the cause and symptom by clearing the clog and cleaning the O2 sensors. It's basically the same thing I've been doing with lacquer thinner since these systems first came out on the 411 Volkswagons and it works much of the time.
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Oxygen sensors should also not need cleaning. Same thing. If it's fouled, something fouled it.

Spark plugs should never need cleaning, too. Regapping, perhaps, but not cleaning.
 
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Often what fouls them is poor fuel and traffic, that daily commute down the road, engine and exhaust don't get to temp for an entire season... It's as much operational as mechanical, as good as the systems are, there are just some things they can't account for. You can drive to work in first gear would do more than any chemical cleaning, just get the system up to temp and get a good volume of gas blasting through the exhaust. When I was a kid a guy payed me $20 once a month to flog his Jag and keep it cleared out.
 
No need to go to first gear. A good whomp down the highway will get your exhaust glowing red, even in overdrive and even in nasty cold.

There are some carbureted engines that have oxygen sensors, but they are few and people tend to junk them because they don't work very well (for instance, good luck finding a 1984 2.8L Mustang). But you will not have issues with atomization on a modern fuel injected engine, even in really cold weather. The fuel will burn, and the sensor will very easily get up to the 600 deg it needs to meter the fuel, as long as it is allowed to warm up. It will do it just fine in stop and go traffic as long as the cooling system is working correctly. Modern vehicles with electric fans (that can be turned completely off) make this even better.

Now, occasionally, you run into the operator who only uses the car to go to the corner grocery store and never lets it warm up. That's abusing the vehicle! And a bigger problem than sensor fouling will be oil contamination. Vehicles like that tend to fill up with sludge.

The fuel quality is substantially better than it was in the 70s, and the fuel delivery systems in the vehicle are as well. 40 PSI is a whole heck of a lot better than 2 or 3 for atomization and cold starts.
 
MAKG1 said:
Even if it did "work" (which I'm skeptical and I think you know why),it only fixed the symptom. Cats don't just plug. Something plugs them.

It's an OBD-II car. Do you have any pending codes? Do you know the MIL works (and most OBD-II cars have two of them -- a "service engine soon" light and a "service engine NOW" light)? The bulbs should be lit prior to engine start. It's also a good idea to run the engine-running self-test even in the absence of a code, under the cirucmstances.

If you were closer, I'd haul my laptop, and diagnosis kit out. But 3000 miles is a little far for that.

Something is wrong, beyond the plugged cat. Sometimes (and much more often than you might think), the problem ends up being something really simple like a broken ground strap.

The best deal I got was a 1986 Bronco II with 120,000 miles on it, which I drove to 230,000 and then sold. The previous owner paid $191 in DMV fines and then GAVE it to me because he didn't want to be seen in it (yes, it was that ugly).
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Well, if you do decide to come, let be know. I'll get the spare room ready.

In the meantimes, no MILs and no codes; and yes, all the lights do work at startup.

Last year around this time, I had a problem with the engine refusing to idle and going into limp mode, and showing a code for failure to read transmission temperature. A local farmer told me the problem was probably the winter gas. He poured some STA-BIL in the tank and told me to let the engine run for ten minutes, and then clear the code.

Although I have NO IDEA why winter gas would cause a code for a transmission temp sensor failure, I did what he suggested -- mainly for lack of any better ideas. Again, I don't want to say definitively that "it worked," but after doing what he said, the code hasn't come back.

He told me to keep using the STA-BIL until the spring, which I did. In scientific terms, it counteracts something that sucks about the winter formulated gas. At my next fill-up (after the last of the Cataclean clears), I'll start using the STA-BIL again.

-Rich

EDIT: I'll check the ground strap tomorrow. That's one thing I haven't checked. the car's running fine now, however, thank God.
 
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A transmission fault won't cause the engine to run poorly, but the reverse can quite easily be true.

Without a bunch of tests and reproduction of the problem, no one can say what happened.

FYI, many cars have "hidden" ground straps against the firewall. In a 4WD, they can be really hard to spot, bolted to the back of a head or the transmission bellhousing. And that often turns out to be a critical one, used as the spark return.
 
RJM62 said:
If I recall correctly from my RC / high-school chemistry days, Glow Fuel creates a catalytic reaction of its own, which is why those tiny engines can generate such incredible power for their size and weight. I wonder how much you'd have to add to a car's fuel tank before everything downstream of the manifold either explodes or melts into a puddle of molten steel.

-Rich
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Prolly more than a pint in 5 gallons of gasoline.:D
 
AggieMike88 said:
On occasion when we sell an engine to a retail car owner or his/her mechanic shop, we'll get a report back initiating a claim against the warranty that the engine is not developing much power. In the past, we took a long look at the engine to see where the fault might be.

Now I'm wondering if we shouldn't ask the mechanic to also investigate the exhaust system. I'm betting many of them don't included this check in their post install QA list.
Click to expand...

There's a known problem with VW diesels where the manufacturers recommended "fix" is literally to take a 1" auger and drill out the huge chunk of carbon that's blocking the entire exhaust manifold in little 1" boreholes.

So yeah. Exhaust system should probably go on your list. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
There's a known problem with VW diesels where the manufacturers recommended "fix" is literally to take a 1" auger and drill out the huge chunk of carbon that's blocking the entire exhaust manifold in little 1" boreholes.

So yeah. Exhaust system should probably go on your list. ;)
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I own a VW diesel and read about them quite a lot. I've never heard of this. I know on occasion you have to clean out the intake side, but never heard anything about the exhaust. Can you point me to this? I might need to check mine out.
 
bigred177 said:
I own a VW diesel and read about them quite a lot. I've never heard of this. I know on occasion you have to clean out the intake side, but never heard anything about the exhaust. Can you point me to this? I might need to check mine out.
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You're correct. Sorry. Intake. Diesel. Due to EGR system that shouldn't have ever been put on the things, but thanks to California, we deal with it.

Sorry. Got that crossed up in my head since its exhaust gas recovery that causes the problem.

For those interested in how bad it gets... A quick Google search turned up this...

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/clean-intake-manifold-VW-TDI-carbon.htm

Lovely shots of the coking/carbon buildup from the EGR. I've seen worse too.

BG has a very controversial procedure and fluids along with adapters to shove this stuff through the engine while its running...

The deposits above... Shoved through your high-compression diesel while it's running... Not sure I like that and haven't done it to Karen's car... A few folks have supposedly trashed engines. Others say its because the procedure wasn't followed. Not sure I care to find out. Better to just remove the darn thing and clean it off the engine, methinks.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1044502

Not that it'll matter much for the moment... She played bumper cars tonight...

So there's one for ya Mikey, if you sell Diesel engines... Check those intake manifolds before they ship! :)
 
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