My new gripe

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stapler101

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stapler101
Planes listed for sale that do not list:
1. Price
2. year model
 
As for #1- about 50% of the people don't care and don't consider it a gripe. My personal preference is to list the price so I know whether to spend the time on it. If I have $40k, I won't call someone asking for $90K- wast of both our time.

Item 2- I agree.
 
Agreed.

When I was plane-shopping, I quickly decided that if there was no price, I moved on without further consideration. This was because, in my experience from calling up the sellers whose planes had no price listed ("Call!"), they either wanted to explain at exhaustive length why market prices did not apply to them and their plane really was worth a 50% premium, or they wanted to ask you eleventy-million personal questions so they could become your best (airplane broker) buddy.
 
Without the price listed on any "For Sale", I usually assume I can't afford it. (If you have to ask, you can't afford it.) Same thing for eBay auctions that list "Reserve not met". Why bother wasting MY time. The seller has just eliminated a buyer. Without ALL the pertinent data, why bother looking further.
 
Then again, there was no price listed on the one I bought. I made a ridiculously low offer, and it was accepted. Had I just passed it by...
 
Poor sales technique. Most folks want to see the price up front. Ed might have got such a good deal because he was the only one to call. When aircraft prices were on the upswing this sort of thing might have worked. It was a seller's market, and if you can get your customer on the phone you're more likely to close the sale. Now however, there are numerous inexpensive aircraft for sale compared to years past. It is now a buyer's market, and sales strategies should reflect that.
 
I like the ones that say "make Offer" That's when I do like Ed did and make a really low ball offer, it is going to do one of two things, get you an airplane at a low price or get you hung up on.
 
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No price is a no go, and I'm actively searching right now. Many a plane with no price has not even gotten a second look by me.
 
I agree, I did not look at planes that did not have a listed price.

That happened as a result of me looking at a few that did not have a price and getting the speech that Spike mentions. I have better things to do than listen why I should pay more.

In the end I found a plane that was really well kept and was worth the higher than average price the owner was asking. I got burned later with an AD but that was unforeseeable.
 
You know it's kinda like wanting to go direct....

You don't get if you don't ask.
 
True. Although in my case it was the only plane I ever put an offer in on that didn't have a price listed for it. I low balled, figuring he would say no, and I woul dbe able to say "well, I made an offer, oh well."

We see how that turned out. :eek:
 
How about the flip side of the gripes when it comes to selling an aircraft? I've bought and sold a large number of airplanes (and helicopters) in my time. Here's just a sampling:

1) Prospective buyers who call you and want to talk on and on about all they know about the plane you are selling, tell you that 20 years ago they could have bought the exact same airplane so much cheaper.

2) Prospective buyers who start the conversation by saying "I read on the internet..." and then refuse to believe you when you try to tell them the truth about the aircraft.

3) Prospective buyers that want you to fax them copies of ALL the pages of the logbook.

4) Prospective buyers that want you to fly the plane to them (sometimes a 1000 miles away) so they can "take a look at it".

5) Prospective buyers that tell you "My mechanic is an expert on that model" and proceeds to try to tell you things about it that are simply not true.

6) Prospective buyers that are only interested in getting a free ride in your airplane without the intention of buying it.
 
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"It's 4:32 in the AM and you're watching Perspectives..."

I would much rather talk to a prospective buyer. A perspective buyer is probably just a point on the horizon with a bunch of lines converging on it.
 
EdFred said:
True. Although in my case it was the only plane I ever put an offer in on that didn't have a price listed for it. I low balled, figuring he would say no, and I woul dbe able to say "well, I made an offer, oh well."

We see how that turned out. :eek:
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Ya but wasn't yours sold by a broker who told you the guy will let it go very inexpensivly and to make a low offer and see what he says. If so then you at least had some guidance.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
6) Perspective buyers that are only interested in getting a free ride in your airplane without the intention of buying it.
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Oh, Man! Why didn't I think of that? What a great idea!!! :rofl:

But what I find funny is someone trying to sell an airplane for $xx,000 or even $xxx,000 that can't come up with a decent picture for the ad. Or can't come up with more than a half dozen or so words to describe it...
:dunno:
 
AdamZ said:
Ya but wasn't yours sold by a broker who told you the guy will let it go very inexpensivly and to make a low offer and see what he says. If so then you at least had some guidance.
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True, I did talk to the broker but I still started with the "we can talk all day, but the range I've seen is this..." Point is, had I just moved along like the Stormtroopers in Episode IV, I would have never found the droids, er plane, I was looking for.
 
I'm with the OP on this one. Advertisements that do not provide a price irritate me immensely. These people are advertising a product for sale, and are either to lazy or embarrassed to list their price. Worse still, they are losing potential buyers because (as this thread illustrates) many of us will not call when the price is not listed.

Perhaps this technique worked when there were 10 buyers for every used plane, but in the present economy where there are 10 planes for every buyer... it is just a horrible job of marketing...

Riffing on this theme (bad advertisements)... a few months back, I saw the worst ad ever for a Piper Turbo Lance. In my recollection, it lacked pictures, and said something like, "Insured for $200k for the last 2 years, what will you offer?" The arrogance of this statement, combined with the complete lack of reality (pristine Lances are selling for sub-$150k) makes me wonder if this person even received a single phone call.
 
EdFred said:
True. Although in my case it was the only plane I ever put an offer in on that didn't have a price listed for it. I low balled, figuring he would say no, and I woul dbe able to say "well, I made an offer, oh well."

We see how that turned out. :eek:
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Are we supposed to feel sorry for you now or something!? ;) :D
 
EdFred said:
Yes. Because I am now spending AMUs like kuh-ray-zee.
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worlds-smallest-violin.jpg


Let me tune up and I'll play you a song. :D:D
 
Yeah, I probably have aways to go to catch up to you.
 
EdFred said:
Yeah, I probably have aways to go to catch up to you.
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I don't think so. I am only into my plane for about $25k since I bought it. Considering that was two tops and a new GPS plus some little things here and there not too bad. You do one avionics upgrade and a paint job and I think you will surpass me.
 
smigaldi said:
I don't think so. I am only into my plane for about $25k since I bought it. Considering that was two tops and a new GPS plus some little things here and there not too bad. You do one avionics upgrade and a paint job and I think you will surpass me.
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True...those tip tanks get me a decent amount of the way there.
 
I generally do look a lot harder at ads with prices... It's the ones without pictures that I can't stand. At the very least, I would like to see a panel picture, an interior picture, and an exterior picture. But the more pictures, the better... It seems that some people don't accurately describe their airplanes in the text (even forgetting to mention items that they do have!) and the pictures can be helpful in finding those items.
 
Bingo! It's a toad-kissing game. How much can anybody's time be worth when they're trying to buy an airplane that's cheaper than most cars?

EdFred said:
Then again, there was no price listed on the one I bought. I made a ridiculously low offer, and it was accepted. Had I just passed it by...
Click to expand...
 
You are then suggesting that even half the guys trying to sell their airplanes have a strategy?

steingar said:
Poor sales technique. Most folks want to see the price up front. Ed might have got such a good deal because he was the only one to call. When aircraft prices were on the upswing this sort of thing might have worked. It was a seller's market, and if you can get your customer on the phone you're more likely to close the sale. Now however, there are numerous inexpensive aircraft for sale compared to years past. It is now a buyer's market, and sales strategies should reflect that.
Click to expand...
 
AdamZ said:
Ya but wasn't yours sold by a broker who told you the guy will let it go very inexpensivly and to make a low offer and see what he says. If so then you at least had some guidance.
Click to expand...

Now THERE'S a broker who earned his pay from the seller. :dunno:
 
Rotor&Wing said:
...
2) Perspective buyers who start the conversation by saying "I read on the internet..." and then refuse to believe you when you try to tell them the truth about the aircraft.

...

4) Perspective buyers that want you to fly the plane to them (sometimes a 1000 miles away) so they can "take a look at it".

...

6) Perspective buyers that are only interested in getting a free ride in your airplane without the intention of buying it.
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Funny. I called a guy while standing in his driveway next to the car he was selling.

I visited a local new car dealer to look at a used car.

In both cases I refused to bother the seller too much because I wasn't ready enough to buy.

I told the owner I'd do some research (on the internet, for used car pricing) and stop back. Never saw him although he was in the house a few hundred feet away. I merely sat and tried the car on the lot for size and refused a test drive.

Now if I just get the dealer to stop calling me. I'll prolly tell him I'm not in the market.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
How about the flip side of the gripes when it comes to selling an aircraft? I've bought and sold a large number of airplanes (and helicopters) in my time. Here's just a sampling:

1) Perspective buyers who call you and want to talk on and on about all they know about the plane you are selling, tell you that 20 years ago they could have bought the exact same airplane so much cheaper.

2) Perspective buyers who start the conversation by saying "I read on the internet..." and then refuse to believe you when you try to tell them the truth about the aircraft.

3) Perspective buyers that want you to fax them copies of ALL the pages of the logbook.

4) Perspective buyers that want you to fly the plane to them (sometimes a 1000 miles away) so they can "take a look at it".

5) Perspective buyers that tell you "My mechanic is an expert on that model" and proceeds to try to tell you things about it that are simply not true.

6) Perspective buyers that are only interested in getting a free ride in your airplane without the intention of buying it.
Click to expand...

Those perspective buyers need to get some prospective!! :cheerswine:
 
I love the listings that claim "pristine" or "well-cared for" and the interior photos look like the planes are being used as a closet. Cripes sakes, take 5 minutes, clean the junk out for the photos! Make the buyers at least think the plane is pristine or well-cared for.
 
Typical FSBO mistake. They are so accustomed to their little "rat's nest" (that may be quite workable for them after years of ownership and operation) that they are totally oblivious about the impression such a picture might make on a prospective buyer. Kinda like the realtor telling you that you must rent a storage unit for all your crap when you are trying to sell your house.

flyersfan31 said:
I love the listings that claim "pristine" or "well-cared for" and the interior photos look like the planes are being used as a closet. Cripes sakes, take 5 minutes, clean the junk out for the photos! Make the buyers at least think the plane is pristine or well-cared for.
Click to expand...
 
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