My Long Cross-country & Flight following

455 Bravo Uniform

455 Bravo Uniform

Final Approach
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Aug 18, 2015
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KLAF
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Display name:
455 Bravo Uniform
Student pilot. Did KLAF to KOXI to KMGC to KLAF. Was handed off from Grissom Approach to South Bend Approach; South Bend asked if I was going to be T&G at KOXI or spend time on the ground; I said just a full stop, then the controller told me to keep my squawk code and contact him when I got airborne again...that was unexpected, but awesome as I had considered not picking up FF on the short 22 minute hop from KOXI to KMGC. Worked perfectly. Reconnected with South Bend to KMGC.

At KMGC I stretched my legs for about 30 minutes and hopped back in. Contacted South Bend again. They asked me to squawk 4314 so I did. They asked me again and I realized that I somehow missed my checklist item to go from STDBY to ALT (yeah, I know about the other thread on AIM and ground transponder settings...but that's whats on the rental plane checklist). Ooops, turned to ALT. Controller a minute later repeated the code and I repeated it back...I thought it odd that he told me again, maybe a friendly reminder? Then he got back on and was polite enough, but said that he told me 4314 but that I was squawking 4334, and I needed to be 4314. I apologized but told him I had indeed set it on 4314, and could go VFR if needed. He said no, not a problem, but to get the transponder looked at.

So fast forward to being handed off from South Bend to Chicago Center. I was with them for a while listening to radio traffic, then after a bit realized I was not hearing any more traffic...this happened once on my first dual XC with FF from KTIP back to KLAF, where we heard no more after a few minutes and never got handed off...so I figured Chicago forgot to hand me off to Grissom. A few minutes later I heard Chicago calling my tail number; After my response, the controller was upset and said "you need to listen more carefully, how can I help you with traffic alerts if you don't listen". I apologized and told him all I heard was radio silence. He handed me off to Grissom then.

Got a lot of traffic alerts and it was well worth getting FF. Thank you to the controllers who do what they do, and care and worry on our behalf, mostly "blindly", to help folks get through the air as safely as possible.
 
I get FF anytime it's available. There's no disadvantage to it. Some pilots don't like using it, no idea why. My dad normally does not, and I always yell at him to use the resource if it's there. He's old and stubborn and doesn't listen though:)

Sounds like your XC went well. I left the transponder on standby for most of one leg of my long XC too! Oops:)
 
Sounds like a real good learning opportunity, whether equipment issues or 'user error'. Either way, sounds like you handled it well.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I left the transponder on standby for most of one leg of my long XC too! Oops:)
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Don't want to start another flamewar, but this is one reason I set-and-forget my transponder to ALT, always.
If I think of the possible consequences of someone leaving it on ALT where they "shouldn't" (dubious there is such a thing, but let's assume it), vs. a whole bunch of people flying around while forgetting to switch from standby to ALT, it's a no-brainer to me.
 
Well, at the time I was a student pilot, and this was summer of 2013(was that before the FAA issued their recommendation to always leave transponders on ALT? I don't know...), and I had been taught to use the checklists and one item was "transponder to standby".. Never mind that I missed the checklist item "transponder to ALT" prior to taking off. LOL.
 
RotorDude said:
Don't want to start another flamewar, but this is one reason I set-and-forget my transponder to ALT, always.
If I think of the possible consequences of someone leaving it on ALT where they "shouldn't" (dubious there is such a thing, but let's assume it), vs. a whole bunch of people flying around while forgetting to switch from standby to ALT, it's a no-brainer to me.
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I'm wondering how many times they have changed your transponder code once you got airborne. Many times if someone squawks "early" meaning they turn it to ALT on the ramp before they taxi, the computer will recognize the code and act as if that flight was already airborne. When they finally taxi out to the runway and take off, they will not "tag up" when they are supposed to and ATC has to do some fast keyboard entries to reset it or issue another squawk...which also requires some fast keyboard entries.
 
Eh? If it tagged up on the ground it would be still be following it once airborne. This is no different than any other transient loss of radar contact.

What is bad is if you are squawking some discrete code not issued to you (like from a previous flight) and that code just happens to be assigned to a different aircraft (more likely if it's a locally assigned code) then you may GRAB the other aircraft's code with the resulting confusion.

I've certainly been reminded by tower that I'm squawking some code other than 1200 on takeoff. I've also been advised at IAD that I really ought not to be squawking 1200 on the ground there.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I'm wondering how many times they have changed your transponder code once you got airborne. Many times if someone squawks "early" meaning they turn it to ALT on the ramp before they taxi, the computer will recognize the code and act as if that flight was already airborne. When they finally taxi out to the runway and take off, they will not "tag up" when they are supposed to and ATC has to do some fast keyboard entries to reset it or issue another squawk...which also requires some fast keyboard entries.
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I can see the ATC hassle perspective, but my personal butt-saving perspective is simple. I listen to transponders for traffic avoidance, via ADSB and Zaon/PCAS. I don't care what they are squawking, only that they are squawking. Having a guy tooling around on standby because he missed a checklist item could ruin both our days, and maybe someone on the ground.
 
flyingron said:
Eh? If it tagged up on the ground it would be still be following it once airborne.
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Not necessarily. I see this all the time. The departure controller will get the code but will flash "WHO" because it no longer can find the information that comes with that code ie, call sign, type aircraft...etc. May be different at larger class C and B airports with ground surveillance radar but we don't have that.
 
As soon as I'm cleared for take off, I just use the lights, (landing light, fuel pump on) camera (transponder to ALT) action (throttle up) method. Works for me.
 
Timbeck2 said:
As soon as I'm cleared for take off, I just use the lights, (landing light, fuel pump on) camera (transponder to ALT) action (throttle up) method. Works for me.
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It's what I do as well, the method just hadn't been ingrained yet when I was a student:)
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
So fast forward to being handed off from South Bend to Chicago Center. I was with them for a while listening to radio traffic, then after a bit realized I was not hearing any more traffic...this happened once on my first dual XC with FF from KTIP back to KLAF, where we heard no more after a few minutes and never got handed off...so I figured Chicago forgot to hand me off to Grissom. A few minutes later I heard Chicago calling my tail number; After my response, the controller was upset and said "you need to listen more carefully, how can I help you with traffic alerts if you don't listen". I apologized and told him all I heard was radio silence. He handed me off to Grissom then..
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If you've had a radio problem a couple times you might want to have it checked out. I once had FF and it got quiet when it shouldn't have been. Turn out it was a connection on the speaker. But it could be the radio in the plane you use too.
 
When things get too quiet, I often open the squelch to make sure the receiver is still working. It also confirms that I don't have a stuck mic. I also may do this if I think I'm getting too far from the ground station for their signal to open the squelch.
 
LAF is my old stomping ground. The Chicago Center frequency for the area you described is 132.5. The transmitter for that frequency is located in Kankakee, IL (IKK). If you're below 3,500' MSL around the wind farms, you are not going to be able to hear Chicago Center anymore, especially in the C152s at your FBO, due to their notoriously weak receivers. (I suspect you were in one.) The solution is to climb higher. You will have no problem with radio reception at 4,500' MSL or 5,500' MSL.

Also keep this in mind when you are flying south towards Indianapolis (IND). If you're near the IND Approach north boundary near Frankfort (FKR), expect to lose comms with Indy Approach if you're below 3,500' MSL. Their frequency 124.65 is only really effective at altitudes above 3,500' MSL unless you have a good receiver. This is the reason that 99% of the time when you fly from Lafayette to Indy that Grissom Approach will not transfer you to Indy Approach. The Grissom controllers already know that you will experience a lost comms situation if they do that. The solution in that case is to monitor 124.65, and call Indy Approach over Lebanon (a VFR reporting point), where they can pick you up at 3,000 with relative ease.

You can always file a NASA ASRS report regarding the radio reception problems. The more people who do this in the area, the more attention will be drawn to the fact that Lafayette, IN is in the middle of a significant radio coverage hole below ~5,000 feet. This applies to our neighboring frequencies 132.5 (Chicago), 124.65 (Indy), 125.45 (Terre Haute-Hullman), and 121.35 (Champaign). Purdue University doesn't have issues with this because they have very strong receivers and transmitters in their training fleet of SR20s. Everyone else is at a significant disadvantage.
 
Thank you Harold. I bet you're right. I was flight-planned at 4,500, but needed to drop to 3,000 due to some clouds that I did not want to be above. I later climbed back up and I am betting that, and maybe my squelch, were the cause.
 
I rarely get flight following because it interrupts my music.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
So fast forward to being handed off from South Bend to Chicago Center. I was with them for a while listening to radio traffic, then after a bit realized I was not hearing any more traffic...this happened once on my first dual XC with FF from KTIP back to KLAF, where we heard no more after a few minutes and never got handed off...so I figured Chicago forgot to hand me off to Grissom. A few minutes later I heard Chicago calling my tail number; After my response, the controller was upset and said "you need to listen more carefully, how can I help you with traffic alerts if you don't listen". I apologized and told him all I heard was radio silence. He handed me off to Grissom then.
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If I haven't heard anything for awhile, I usually will just say, "Center you still there?" If I get no response I'll start working the issue. Most of the time I just hit a sweet spot in the day where no-one needed to talk for 3-5 minutes and Center will usually respond and all is well.
 
At 2,500 between Pacific Palisades and Pt. Dume under the class B for LAX you'll lose SoCal Approach. Found that out after two occasions where I got out and started climbing and they said "I see you're climbing, can you hear me now?"
 
denverpilot said:
There's a switch for that inside the Lightspeeds. Hehe.
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And as I learned last week, a button on the controller to fully disable the feature. I wish I could entirely turn it off (instead of just turning it down) on my BluLink.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Then he got back on and was polite enough, but said that he told me 4314 but that I was squawking 4334, and I needed to be 4314. I apologized but told him I had indeed set it on 4314
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This happened to me once... I'm curious if the next controller had you at 4314 or 4334 because in my case, the next controller confirmed my squawk was correct... weird!
 
Palmpilot said:
When things get too quiet, I often open the squelch to make sure the receiver is still working. It also confirms that I don't have a stuck mic. I also may do this if I think I'm getting too far from the ground station for their signal to open the squelch.
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I was flying from KSJC to KLGB a couple of months ago. Fairly messy IMC weather that day, so not a lot of people flying. After my handoff from Norcal to Oakland center was acknowledged, it got real quiet for quite a while. May have spooked the controller, because he came up after 10-15 min of silence with "8 9 Echo Lima, just wanted you to know we're still here, there's just nothing to say and no one to say it to". Got a good laugh out of that...
 
jimhorner said:
I was flying from KSJC to KLGB a couple of months ago. Fairly messy IMC weather that day, so not a lot of people flying. After my handoff from Norcal to Oakland center was acknowledged, it got real quiet for quite a while. May have spooked the controller, because he came up after 10-15 min of silence with "8 9 Echo Lima, just wanted you to know we're still here, there's just nothing to say and no one to say it to". Got a good laugh out of that...
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I had a ZDV controller ask me around 2AM over eastern Kansas what the gross weight of my aircraft was. I was flying a Cutlass 172RG. When I replied (after initially giving a "standby" wondering what the heck he would be quizzing me on W&B stuff for...), he replied "Ahhh, you're no help. I have a bet going with the other sector over who's going to control the most pounds of airplanes tonight." Hahaha.

I apologized I wasn't fat enough, and said I'd be happy to lie and tell him whatever number helped the most with his bet. He chuckled and said no, that's ok.
 
On mid shifts when we used to have two people on it, we'd play Trivial Pursuit with Air One, the police helicopter.

It is a boring job sometimes.
 
I was bouncing around between airports late one evening shootign practice approaches. In the middle of one PCT calls and says "That's a pretty airplane." Guess he was googling the N numbers (lots of pictures of mine around on the net) while sitting there watching me fly around.
 
denverpilot said:
There's a switch for that inside the Lightspeeds. Hehe.
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For the Zulu.2, it's on the outside of the battery case below the bluetooth controls.

And if you get the PMA450 audio panel (like we just did... love it!) there is a muting mode that will allow the music to not mute when the intercom is active, but will mute when the radio is.
 
AggieMike88 said:
And if you get the PMA450 audio panel (like we just did... love it!) there is a muting mode that will allow the music to not mute when the intercom is active, but will mute when the radio is.
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Now that I like! No more muting interrupting sing-along songs! Haha.
 
Even the older PS Engineering and even the piece of crap Garmin 340 has that feature. We call it Karaoke mode. I had that pin wired to a switch on my panel that has that label.

Still can't keep ATC from muting the XM Radio (though I did figure out why the radio muted when I raised the gear). Amusingly PILOT ISOLATE also cuts off the music.
 
That and several other features make the PMA450 worth it when your ready to upgrade your audio panel.
 
Some folks just don't get flight following due to altitude restrictions and not wanting to climb way up for a short hop, other folks it just doesn't make sense because of the mission, ATC Cessna 1234, I'm looking for flight following to the sandbar by Frank's lodge, next to the bend in the river by the good spot on the salmon run ;)
 
Timbeck2 said:
On mid shifts when we used to have two people on it, we'd play Trivial Pursuit with Air One, the police helicopter.

It is a boring job sometimes.
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Used to fly cancelled checks to KMEM and often flew after midnight. Some crazy and funny stuff on the radios late at night for sure. ;)
 
James331 said:
Some folks just don't get flight following due to altitude restrictions and not wanting to climb way up for a short hop, other folks it just doesn't make sense because of the mission, ATC Cessna 1234, I'm looking for flight following to the sandbar by Frank's lodge, next to the bend in the river by the good spot on the salmon run ;)
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No problem with that example. I once had flight following when heading to a private airport in the North Carolina mountains. When I asked, ATC informed me the airport was not in their database and asked for a nearby public airport. Once I neared it, I told ATC I was heading to a private airfield and asked if I could stay with them until I had it in sight and cancelled. No problem.

Similar was a flight around Mt Hood and take some photos. Again, no problem at all. Other examples abound.

It's helpful for ATC to have a destination to monitor but the primary purpose - traffic advisories - and even the secondary purpose -having someone to talk to in case of a problem - do not strictly require it. Ask for what you want. Workload permitting, those great folks will accommodate.
 
mscard88 said:
No, never heard of it, but thanks for the link. Might check it out.
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Cool... let us know if you had ever encountered someone like the copilot featured in the book.
 
I did it mostly in a C172, occasionally a C310 if I got lucky! No copilot.
 
Once late at night, mid-continent, was on ZKC with flight following. It was a pitch black night and the frequency had been absolutely silent for about 10-15 minutes. We were droning along and finally, I keyed the mic and said, "sure is quiet out there." ZKC responded in agreement and then a couple of other flights chimed in with like acknowledgments.
 
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