My health insurance just got cancelled

FORANE

FORANE

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FORANE
Just received a letter from my health insurer. My policy will not be renewed after its expiration in February. It said I was welcome to go to their site to request a quote for another policy. ok, sure, I went there. The new quote was an increase of 400%!
 
I'm a consultant and wife runs a non profit so we don't have what scientists refer to as "real insurance".

We are on some group co-op plan which provides almost adequate health coverage from a company called freedom life.

It is tier based depending on your needs. We are in their lowest tier and pay a low premium (600/mo for family) and it covers the basics. If I were to need surgery our get cancer, it would cover it but I would be bumped up to the next tier and payments would be higher.

It is not great but not crazy expensive and seems to help.

It will not cover me if I am in a plane crash and survive with injuries. Weirdest effin clause ive ever seen
 
Congratulations ! By losing your coverage you will save $2500 every year. I think thats how it was supposed to work, right ?

Make sure to lose your job when you get sick so you get a subsidy.
 
I hear ya. But this is getting mad at the tangent of the problem (i.e. bemoaning cost shifting to cover people you think should die of pain and disease because they're poor and you feel they are so due to varying degrees of moral deficiency). That's socioeconomic warfare, and they outnumber you so that's a losing proposition. The actual problem here is the war the industry seems to wage against the self-employed and the small business employed (both owners and employees alike). Until those dynamics change, people need to be extremely judicious in objectively quantifying the totality of the opportunity cost they incur when they choose self-employment over a company that offers group banding.

We can talk about normative statements all day regarding health care in America compared to other western countries, but that's not gonna change the fact that as of right now, if you're not a part of an employer that offers a discount on insurance based on a pooling of a large W2 base, you're on your own if you don't qualify for subsidies in the market exchange. It is what it is. Take home pay is not everything when it comes to evaluating quality of employment. I know self-employment is the snark du jour for those in presently growing industries, but caveat emptor folks. Game is chess...
 
FORANE said:
Just received a letter from my health insurer. My policy will not be renewed after its expiration in February. It said I was welcome to go to their site to request a quote for another policy. ok, sure, I went there. The new quote was an increase of 400%!
Click to expand...

I feel your pain........

I got the 500% rate hike a couple of years ago... There are / WERE 2 health care insurance companies in Wyoming.. Until 3 weeks ago, Winhealth pulled out cold turkey and now only BCBS is available.... I can't wait to see their (new rates)...:yikes:
 
Obama and Pelosi and Reid are counting on being gone by the time the dimwit american public realizes they have been mugged by the socialist uber-liberal leftists they elected and the mob comes looking for a scapegoat.

Having spent most of my adult life self employed and paying for my own health insurance (and paying for everything else in my life) I do not feel obligated to pay for those who don't work and won't work. Shortly after BHO was elected I saw the writing hand scribbling Trotsky phrases on the wall and arranged my affairs to be as free of putting money in the hands of those neo-communist parasites disguised as Democrat politicians as is humanly possible.

It is quite liberating to go from paying taxes at the top couple of percent for some 40 years to being one of the 99%. Buddy can you spare a dime, if so I'd be grateful :D
I have come to realize that there is no solution with the liberals in power and the country is going down with the flush, so I have become part of the problem.
I own nothing.
I have nothing.
And if I need care it is going to be on the dime of some Democrat voter. The way things should be. :goofy:
 
400%. Means nothing without knowing the original policy vs the new one.

No policies are going up 400%.

Gotta compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So how much was the 400 percent increase. I hear people sometimes complain about a percentage increase but when you find out the details it turns out their $25 a month 100% coverage plan went to $100 a month while the rest of us would love to have a plan that cheap. I'm not saying that is necessarily what is happening here but quoting percentage rates mean nothing without putting them in context with real dollar numbers.

Keith
 
Dr. O said:
Obama and Pelosi and Reid are counting on being gone by the time the dimwit american public realizes they have been mugged by the socialist uber-liberal leftists they elected and the mob comes looking for a scapegoat.

Having spent most of my adult life self employed and paying for my own health insurance (and paying for everything else in my life) I do not feel obligated to pay for those who don't work and won't work. Shortly after BHO was elected I saw the writing hand scribbling Trotsky phrases on the wall and arranged my affairs to be as free of putting money in the hands of those neo-communist parasites disguised as Democrat politicians as is humanly possible.

It is quite liberating to go from paying taxes at the top couple of percent for some 40 years to being one of the 99%. Buddy can you spare a dime, if so I'd be grateful :D
I have come to realize that there is no solution with the liberals in power and the country is going down with the flush, so I have become part of the problem.
I own nothing.
I have nothing.
And if I need care it is going to be on the dime of some Democrat voter. The way things should be. :goofy:
Click to expand...



I'm curious how one 'arranges their affairs' to pay less taxes while making the same money.

Our premiums went from $450/month to $1024/month so we are feeling the pain and punishment of caucasion success.
 
I think that if the plan you shopped for and purchased for $1 a month goes to $4 a month it is in fact 400% INCREASE due to a law which is falsely named the Affordable Care Act. Paying 4X any amount is the exact opposite of the lie that was sold.

Just as my 25% increase ticks me off. The basis of the increase is not the relevant point. The continuing trend to make those who were already paying pay more is.

But this is all quite political and this can't be the SZ since there isn't one anymore.
 
txflyer said:
I'm curious how one 'arranges their affairs' to pay less taxes while making the same money.

Our premiums went from $450/month to $1024/month so we are feeling the pain and punishment of caucasion success.
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I give 30% of my income to local churches. That is more than I pay in personal income tax so my tax to the government is usually less than 1%. I am going to have to give it away to someone, might as well be to someone that can put it to better use.
 
Saw a great bumper sticker;

"Yes, I drive a Prius. No, I don't want to pay for your health insurance"

We (my wife and I) got nicked by the drop in allowable contributions for flexible spending accounts, and the increase in co-pays, etc.

We decided to stop worrying about, and re-coup as best we can - no more charitable contributions - the Feds have coopted that arena.

If our taxes go up in one area, we cut the expenses elsewhere - property tax increase? Buy a used car instead of new - save a thousand on state sales tax. Toll increase? Pay one way, take a different route home. . . .state income tax goes up? Put more in deferred, for the day we retire out-of-state. Started packing my lunch a year or two ago - not so good for the local businesses, but hey, gov't knows best about re-distribution.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
34 more days, go nuts
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Yes, but the Spin Zone violates the "Core Values" of the MC, whatever those are today (don't worry, only the SZ violates these Core Values...other heated discussions are AOK with the MC, because the Core Values only apply to whatever the MC thinks they apply to). With it gone, all such political discussions will vanish for, reasons.
 
rolivi said:
I think that if the plan you shopped for and purchased for $1 a month goes to $4 a month it is in fact 400% INCREASE due to a law which is falsely named the Affordable Care Act. Paying 4X any amount is the exact opposite of the lie that was sold.



Just as my 25% increase ticks me off. The basis of the increase is not the relevant point. The continuing trend to make those who were already paying pay more is.



But this is all quite political and this can't be the SZ since there isn't one anymore.
Click to expand...


Not if the old plan was actually a "junk" plan that was sold to unsophisticated shoppers, and the new plan actually has some coverages.

Gotta compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This whole discussion violates the "Core Values". The entire Hangar Talk forum needs to be shut down immediately, at least it does if the MC has any consistency.

Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath, because I am fully aware that the "Core Values" excuse was a pretext and not the real reason.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Not if the old plan was actually a "junk" plan that was sold to unsophisticated shoppers, and the new plan actually has some coverages.

Gotta compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Talking point memes, democrats think everyone who points out how crummy their policies are are stupid.

My insurance is not junk and has risen by at least 20% per year for the last 6 years. To bring that number down to a more reasonable 10 to 15% I have had to accept higher co- pays and deductibles.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Not if the old plan was actually a "junk" plan that was sold to unsophisticated shoppers, and the new plan actually has some coverages.

Gotta compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah, wouldn't want people to be able to make choices with their own lives, eh?
 
JoseCuervo said:
400%. Means nothing without knowing the original policy vs the new one.

No policies are going up 400%.

Gotta compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

JoseCuervo said:
Not if the old plan was actually a "junk" plan that was sold to unsophisticated shoppers, and the new plan actually has some coverages.

Gotta compare apples to apples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Clearly you have no idea what's really going on.

I roll off of COBRA from a prior job in a few weeks and (doing a start-up) I have to find other coverage. The coverage under COBRA - which means the participant pays 100% of the unsubsidized cost - was an HSA plan. Any new plan I get - including spousal coverage from another employer - will be a minimum of 125% more for less coverage, and may be 3 times as much (for a policy on the exchange with similar but still less coverage than I have now).

All of these are policies that comply with the minimum standards of the ACA. They are all written by well-known insurers (current policy is UHC).

Worse, it is nearly impossible to compare the plans, and it appears that the insurers are making sure that you can't compare them. Aside from different ways of calculating deductibles, coverages, included items, and drug benefits, none of the policy writers can/will provide a list of negotiated pricing on covered drugs until you sigh up. That means that one cannot compare between a policy that has a $10-per-script-filled generic drug cost and a policy that covers 80% of the generic drug cost. Use a generic drug that has a negotiated price of $5/30 days and you'll pay more with the $10/fill policy as opposed to the 80% after deductible policy.

Further, I had the chance to compare spousal coverage between a couple of employers. One employer has unsubsidized pricing that encourages use of HSA policies... another employer has unsubsidized pricing that encourages PPO and ends up being $1000 more for HSA. Both UHC. Generally, coverage on the exchanges for similar policies is 10-15% higher. Subsidies are for employee-coverage only at the minimum required by law.

Bottom line is that a substantial portion of the money I will save each month when I sell the plane will go to the increased cost of health insurance.

The ACA made things harder to obtain, harder to compare, and more expensive. And it will get even worse as the "Cadillac tax" rolls in. Oh, and drug companies are making it worse as pricing is skyrocketing on some drugs (recent news article about topical drugs).

Health care is a mess. It's even worse than cell phone/telecom/airline pricing.

I'm a big believer in free and open markets where information is available and allows rational decisions. At the moment, I am becoming less confident that the health care marketplace meets the standards. ACA did not make things better. There are those in DC that hoped (and still hope) that the ACA will fail to ensure government single payer.
 
Here's my personal observations:

1) my monthly deduction for my employer's health plan (employee only as wife does same at her job) has more than doubled in the 11 years I've worked here (2004 $32/mo; 2015 $81/mo). My employer says their costs have gone up proportionally. However, I suspect that if I could even find the data, I'd see that the share I pay is a higher percentage of total cost now.

2) As a military retiree below the age of 65, I'm eligible for Tricare Prime. The annual enrollment fee has gone from $400/year to $582/year in the 16 years since I retired from active duty.

3) As a full-time healthcare professional, working at a county hospital which is also a level I trauma center, I still see the same uninsured people (and more) whose only access to health is through the emergency room. We are busier than ever! Nothing has changed except my bosses repeatedly complain that it is harder and harder to get reimbursements and the amount of non-reimbursed healthcare is steadily increasing.

4) As a college graduate with coursework in managerial accounting, finance, and project management, and acceptance that I know nothing about politics, healthcare administration, or public administration, it seems to me that the whole approach to healthcare in this country has always been to try and solve all problems with one quick solution. There doesn't seem to be any kind of long-range planning, only quick solutions that look good for the next election.

5) Those of you who have had these 400% increases in healthcare premiums appear to me to be exactly the folks that should have seen this coming a mile away. This doesn't excuse this, it is ridiculous and it is seriously wrong to make you pay thousands of dollars for access to healthcare when people who don't even try get it for free. But, why are you suddenly surprised now?
 
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Anyone notice that when politicians fix something we pay more and their campaign coffers grow. ;)
 
JoseCuervo said:
Not if the old plan was actually a "junk" plan that was sold to unsophisticated shoppers, and the new plan actually has some coverages.
Click to expand...

Right, like forced maternity coverage for a 55 year-old couple ...
 
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wilkersk said:
Here's my personal observations:

1) my monthly deduction for my employer's health plan (employee only as wife does same at her job) has more than doubled in the 11 years I've worked here (2004 $32/mo; 2015 $81/mo). My employer says their costs have gone up proportionally. However, I suspect that if I could even find the data, I'd see that the share I pay is a higher percentage of total cost now.

2) As a military retiree below the age of 65, I'm eligible for Tricare Prime. The annual enrollment fee has gone from $400/year to $582/year in the 16 years since I retired from active duty.

3) As a full-time healthcare professional, working at a county hospital which is also a level I trauma center, I still see the same uninsured people (and more) whose only access to health is through the emergency room. We are busier than ever! Nothing has changed except my bosses repeatedly complain that it is harder and harder to get reimbursements and the amount of non-reimbursed healthcare is steadily increasing.

4) As a college graduate with coursework in managerial accounting, finance, and project management, and acceptance that I know nothing about politics, healthcare administration, or public administration, it seems to me that the whole approach to healthcare in this country has always been to try and solve all problems with one quick solution. There doesn't seem to be any kind of long-range planning, only quick solutions that look good for the next election.

5) Those of you who have had these 400% increases in healthcare premiums appear to me to be exactly the folks that should have seen this coming a mile away. This doesn't excuse this, it is ridiculous and it is seriously wrong to make you pay thousands of dollars for access to healthcare when people who don't even try get it for free. But, why are you suddenly surprised now?
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised at all. I do know that the government has been f'ing up insurance since I can remember, the HMO deal was written by Kennedy in 1973, that's what Obama care supposedly needed to fix.
 
A few thoughts without responding to individual posts...

I didn't intend, but am not surprised, for this thread to become a political banter. The changes to healthcare insurance seem to be a real hot button issue.

I am not surprised at the premium increase. I am surprised it took this long for my policy to not be renewed.

I pay 6 figures in taxes. I can afford a "junk" plan. I am healthy. I don't smoke. I take no meds. To me, this means a high deductible catastrophic plan is actually the best plan for me as an individual.

I am not opposed to universal healthcare. I have long thought we would be well served to have a basic set of diseases that are covered for everyone and paid for out of the tax base. Insurers should be able to sell policies in every state and coverage beyond the basic should be an option for anyone who has the means and desire to pay for it. Of course to make it equitable we should also implement a flat tax but that is another matter.

Where are self employed folks shopping for health insurance these days?
 
FORANE said:
I pay 6 figures in taxes. I can afford a "junk" plan. I am healthy. I don't smoke. I take no meds. To me, this means a high deductible catastrophic plan is actually the best plan for me as an individual.
Click to expand...

How dare you take responsibility for your own healthcare expenses !
 
FORANE said:
A few thoughts without responding to individual posts...

I didn't intend, but am not surprised, for this thread to become a political banter. The changes to healthcare insurance seem to be a real hot button issue.

I am not surprised at the premium increase. I am surprised it took this long for my policy to not be renewed.

I pay 6 figures in taxes. I can afford a "junk" plan. I am healthy. I don't smoke. I take no meds. To me, this means a high deductible catastrophic plan is actually the best plan for me as an individual.

I am not opposed to universal healthcare. I have long thought we would be well served to have a basic set of diseases that are covered for everyone and paid for out of the tax base. Insurers should be able to sell policies in every state and coverage beyond the basic should be an option for anyone who has the means and desire to pay for it. Of course to make it equitable we should also implement a flat tax but that is another matter.

Where are self employed folks shopping for health insurance these days?
Click to expand...


I'm in a similar situation to you, healthy and well enough off not to be worried about minor stuff. I just need/want catastrophic coverage. Comprehensive plans make little sense for me, but under the ACA we're stuck with what we can get and the cheapest plan I can get is about 2x more expensive than the slightly better than cheapest I could get 3 years ago.... with a higher deductible I might add.

Unfortunately one of biggest problems with insurance that the ACA never addressed is all the regulation regarding how and where you can buy it, which makes comparison shopping difficult.

This is the best resource I know of... https://www.healthsherpa.com/



On the ACA and "junk" plans.... as we all (should) know the whole point of getting insurance is to cover some unexpected emergency that you'd otherwise be unable to afford. In terms of health care, it makes very little sense to pay extra every month on the off chance I break an arm or something and have a $3,000 medical bill if I have enough in reserve to cover that if the need arises. It costs me far more to have an insurance policy for that over the years than it would to just pay it.

What would make far more sense is to have insurance that pays nothing on anything until you hit the deductible, then pays everything after that. Then for the low-income folks who can't pay for the hypothetical broken arm we have some kind of medicaid like coverage.

What we have instead are these overly complicated, bloated health "service plans" that nobody fully understands until they try to actually use their insurance and most of us are required to buy. It's a terrible system and the worst of both worlds IMO.
 
weilke said:
How dare you take responsibility for your own healthcare expenses !
Click to expand...

Has anyone else had the experience of going into a pharmacy to pick up a prescription, finding out insurance won't pay for it, and having the pharmacist really resistant/hesitant to just let you pay for it out of pocket?

My wife and I have run into this before a couple of times. Once was when we were going on a trip overseas and she didn't have enough of the medication to last until we returned. Being unsure of availability we wanted to get the next refill early. Insurance said no.... went through a big back and forth and finally got them to agree to just let us pay the $15 for it and go. Probably cost everyone more than $15 for all the calling back and forth between us, the doctor, insurance company, and pharmacy. :nonod:
 
cowman said:
Has anyone else had the experience of going into a pharmacy to pick up a prescription, finding out insurance won't pay for it, and having the pharmacist really resistant/hesitant to just let you pay for it out of pocket?

My wife and I have run into this before a couple of times. Once was when we were going on a trip overseas and she didn't have enough of the medication to last until we returned. Being unsure of availability we wanted to get the next refill early. Insurance said no.... went through a big back and forth and finally got them to agree to just let us pay the $15 for it and go. Probably cost everyone more than $15 for all the calling back and forth between us, the doctor, insurance company, and pharmacy. :nonod:
Click to expand...

Not me.....

I stay healthy and have not had a "script" for anything in 30 years...
 
cowman said:
Has anyone else had the experience of going into a pharmacy to pick up a prescription, finding out insurance won't pay for it, and having the pharmacist really resistant/hesitant to just let you pay for it out of pocket?
Click to expand...

No.

But there was a time that the pharmacist was helping me after insurance wouldn't pay for a somewhat expensive prescription (something like $200?). It took me a little while to figure out why the prescription was denied and what it was for. While I certainly could afford the $200, I opted to not use the prescription because the oxycodone was effective and the broken ribs weren't bothering me (very unusual, I know)
 
wilkersk said:
2) As a military retiree below the age of 65, I'm eligible for Tricare Prime. The annual enrollment fee has gone from $400/year to $582/year in the 16 years since I retired from active duty.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same situation. And when you turn 65 you are forced off TriCare Prime and on to Medicare. Your $582 annual family premium changes to $110 per person per month even if you are not yet drawing social security.
 
I lived overseas for a long time and had UK-based insurance (I was not eligible for the state-run plans in the countries I was living in). I paid much less than I do now for an ACA plan. However, until recently, it was impossible to even buy insurance in my home state because of a pre-existing condition. I was effectively forced to stay overseas until I could buy insurance here.

I think insurance companies are a big part of the problem. By removing the real cost from the consumer, prices are not controlled in a normal free-market system. In many cases, the doctor can't even tell you what something costs. Try calling a hospital and asking what an MRI costs with no insurance... odds are that they will not be able to tell you. Can you think of any other business that does not know what it's products sell for?

I think the only real solution in the long run is single-payer. The free-market does not work for health care. We already have single-payer for police and fire protection and that works quite well.

cowman said:
What would make far more sense is to have insurance that pays nothing on anything until you hit the deductible, then pays everything after that. Then for the low-income folks who can't pay for the hypothetical broken arm we have some kind of medicaid like coverage.
Click to expand...

I have that now. $7K deductible and it still costs me over $300/mo. Overseas I had a $1K deductible and paid about half of the premium here.
 
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cowman said:
Has anyone else had the experience of going into a pharmacy to pick up a prescription, finding out insurance won't pay for it, and having the pharmacist really resistant/hesitant to just let you pay for it out of pocket?

My wife and I have run into this before a couple of times. Once was when we were going on a trip overseas and she didn't have enough of the medication to last until we returned. Being unsure of availability we wanted to get the next refill early. Insurance said no.... went through a big back and forth and finally got them to agree to just let us pay the $15 for it and go. Probably cost everyone more than $15 for all the calling back and forth between us, the doctor, insurance company, and pharmacy. :nonod:
Click to expand...

Same here. Needed some malaria meds for an unplanned trip. Pharmacy only filled the first dose 'because insurance doesn't cover it'
No ****, I work for the insurance company, I know they dont cover it. That's why I was going to pay for it. I needed it that day so I left him with his special order single dose, made some calls and picked it up in DC on the way to the airport. Retail pharmacies are some of the worst run businesses. If its not 'Lipitor 30 days' you are forked.
 
Posted by cowman:

What would make far more sense is to have insurance that pays nothing on anything until you hit the deductible, then pays everything after that. Then for the low-income folks who can't pay for the hypothetical broken arm we have some kind of medicaid like coverage.

That's the kind of policy I have (BCBS).

Six thousand deductible; pays nothing until I've maxed out the out-of-pocket, then pays 100%.

Mark
 
It isn't just the low income folks that can't afford a broken arm anymore. My daughter broke her arm over the summer. Total cost billed from the hospital was just over $40,000. People focus too much on the cost of insurance and not enough on the outrageous fees that some places are charging for medical care.

Keith
 
Got my 2016 numbers in the mail today for my company provided (BCBS) policy. A quick look show premiums up > double digit percent, don't know the exact numbers yet.

Some increases due to ACA required additions, some because of a higher claim history across the employee pool.

I have a high deductible with an HCA.

Because of the high deductible level, about the only advantage I have is the lower "negotiated" rates I pay for services.
 
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