Most efficient approach to Insurance coverage?

[bluesideup]

Hi everyone.
Someone owns an acft and has a CFI friend who is willing to help, and at this time both are on the policy.
The owner has a friend that wants to learn to fly and would like to find the best approach without having brake any rules and or going to full Commercial / FBO policy to get covered?
Thank you.

 

[Unit74]

I keyed in on two things.....

The CFI is on the plane which sounds like he has some sort of interest in it and thus, cannot supply the plane or this becomes some sort of hold out issue, I think.

Second, the pilot is getting free instruction and free aircraft creating a benefit situation. Not knowing the full details, it at least needs clarification. Would not want to end up in a FSDO interview before even getting a PPL!

 

[Floyd]

I keyed in on two things.....

The CFI is on the plane which sounds like he has some sort of interest in it and thus, cannot supply the plane or this becomes some sort of hold out issue, I think.

Second, the pilot is getting free instruction and free aircraft creating a benefit situation. Not knowing the full details, it at least needs clarification. Would not want to end up in a FSDO interview before even getting a PPL!

Not sure where you are getting your information. It is common to add a CFI to the policy. Where did it say the instruction and flying were free?

 

[Unit74]

Not sure where you are getting your information. It is common to add a CFI to the policy. Where did it say the instruction and flying were free?

Sure looks like an inference in the post to me...

 

[flyingron]

My policy covers a CFI instructing me in my plane out of the box. If the instructor wants to be a named insured, that's not hard (nor does it change the policy). The insurer did ask me if the instructor had 5 hours in type and 25 hours of retract time. I asked my former U-2 pilot CFI, if the wheels fall off your plane does it count as retract time?

 

[bluesideup]

Hi.
The CFI is on the insurance but is not as part owner or has any interest other than to pleasure fly with the owner when asked, without getting paid.
The owner's friend would pay for the fuel, or some minimum amount of the plane's expense / share, and the CFI can donate the time, no charge to the owner's friend or the owner, not paid for service / time.

If that would cause issues what would take to make it completely without an issue?

Nobody is interested, or trying to, circumvent anything just the most straight forward, simplest, and least expensive procedure to help the owner's friend.

I keyed in on two things.....

The CFI is on the plane which sounds like he has some sort of interest in it and thus, cannot supply the plane or this becomes some sort of hold out issue, I think.

Second, the pilot is getting free instruction and free aircraft creating a benefit situation. Not knowing the full details, it at least needs clarification. Would not want to end up in a FSDO interview before even getting a PPL!

 

[SToL]

Hi everyone.
Someone owns an acft and has a CFI friend who is willing to help, and at this time both are on the policy.
The owner has a friend that wants to learn to fly and would like to find the best approach without having brake any rules and or going to full Commercial / FBO policy to get covered?
Thank you.

If your friend is providing the aircraft then no problem.

If the instructor is providing the aircraft then it only matters if he is being hired:
91.409
(b) ... no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter or has received an inspection for the issuance of an airworthiness certificate in accordance with part 21 of this chapter. ...

When a student pilot flies with an instructor, the instructor is the only one who can act as PIC as they are the only 'Rated Pilot' and the only one 'Rated in the Aircraft'. Thus, since a student is not acting as PIC, he may be compensated for learning to fly. i.e. airplane provided, fuel provided, instruction provided, all expenses paid for, etc.

Student Pilot General Limitations:
61.89
(a) A student pilot may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft:
(1) That is carrying a passenger;
(2) That is carrying property for compensation or hire;
(3) For compensation or hire;
(4) In furtherance of a business;

 

[bluesideup]

Hi everyone.
It would appear that the best / only good procedure would be if the Owner and Friend have a partnership in the acft. / part owners. The acft is already on a 100 maintenance schedule and was never used for training.
This would be a one time deal and I've seen some partnerships where you can buy into and share the the use of the acft. I don't know if that is the best way to do it but that was the first thing that I was thinking about.
No one is making money in this and the only goal is to help someone get the PP certificate without too many complications and making sure everyone is covered.

 

[bradg33]

Hi everyone.
It would appear that the best / only good procedure would be if the Owner and Friend have a partnership in the acft. / part owners. The acft is already on a 100 maintenance schedule and was never used for training.
This would be a one time deal and I've seen some partnerships where you can buy into and share the the use of the acft. I don't know if that is the best way to do it but that was the first thing that I was thinking about.
No one is making money in this and the only goal is to help someone get the PP certificate without too many complications and making sure everyone is covered.

(I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and I'm probably not licensed in your state) This is far, far from the truth. The "friend" doesn't need to own any interest in the airplane in order to use it to learn in. If he's paying for his own fuel, nobody is going to raise any issues about flying for compensation or hire. A lot of folks, incorrectly IMHO, get all wrapped around the axle about the whole "compensation" thing. Same goes with the CFI issue. If your CFI doesn't own any interest in the airplane, and your buddy is just hiring the same CFI you use to provide him instruction in your airplane, there's no issue. I'd run it by your insurance agent to make sure everyone flying the airplane is named/approved pilot/waiver of subrogation as you see appropriate, but the situation you propose is a non-issue and happens all the time. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[bluesideup]

Hi Brad.
OK, that is what I was going to suggest, as long as everyone / everything is insured.
Thanks for your feedback.

I'd run it by your insurance agent to make sure everyone flying the airplane is named/approved pilot/waiver of subrogation as you see appropriate,..