More window shopping

It is a nice plane but it priced about $6-7k too much. He is trying to over sell the newer engine. My 1980 with a far better panel and 975SMOH went for $59k last summer. I also had new glass, new plastic around the engine intakes, new shimy dampner, and wing tip lights. I liked window shopping on ASO but I found most things there to be marked high.
 
Seems like a nice plane.

I have yet to fly a low-wing, but the wife really prefers the high-wings on the Cessna.
 
tdager said:
Seems like a nice plane.

I have yet to fly a low-wing, but the wife really prefers the high-wings on the Cessna.
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Mine did too until we got the low wing. She likes the lower center of gravity in turbulance as it "feels more stable" and she likes not being able to look straight down. She gets vertigo so she prefers having a wing right out the window blocking her view. She used to alway be scared in the Cessna that we would hit turbulance, her hand would accidently lift up the door handle and she would fall out.

It was pointed out to her that a) the door will not open very easily into the wind and b)she has a seat belt on. But all that accomplished was her to understand it was an irrational fear but it did not negate the phobia.
 
Nice looking Warrior, but I agree, its expensive. A comparable Grumman Cheetah would be less.
 
One thing to consider when buying a plane with too low of a time engine is that the owner may have just done the overhaul to the lowest limits to get it done. They have been planning on selling it and hope to attract buyers that wanted the low time engine. If you buy an engine with more time on it you are more likely to get an engine that an owner was flying himself and had overhauled to hihger specs or buy a late time engine and have all the work done to your specs. I bought a mid time engine that had proved itself and have been happy. With the extra stuff I have done this year I should be able to get to TBO without too much pain.

This plane's engine looks like it is in the ballpark for a good midtime engine, not too soon after MOH. I am always scared of those planes with the 20 SMOH engines. You would also need to find out when the last OH took place. If it was like 15 years ago this engine is really in need of a MOH

What you are paying extra for on this plane is the paint job and interior work. It looks like they did a good job and the rest of the plane looks good too. It would be worth going to kick the tires and look over the logbooks. Then get a feel for the owner's willingness to negosiate. If that all checks out time to have a mechanic look it over.

If you are going to fly IFR you need a few things more in the panel that could add about another $5 to $8k to your outlay. You also want to start your maintenance fund and engine replacement fund so expect to have another $5 to $10k left in saving after purchase. Your insurance will run around $1k/year and operating costs on my Warrior are about $68/hr (hangers will add to this if you have to pay a lot for one). Plan on at least 100 hours per year to make buying worth it over renting.
 
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smigaldi said:
It is a nice plane but it priced about $6-7k too much. He is trying to over sell the newer engine. My 1980 with a far better panel and 975SMOH went for $59k last summer. I also had new glass, new plastic around the engine intakes, new shimy dampner, and wing tip lights. I liked window shopping on ASO but I found most things there to be marked high.
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My couple of calls to ASO (and other sellers) have shown me one of two things - 1. The seller really, really loves their airplane. They want to sell, but they want their price and aren't willing to negotiate much (say <5% of asking price). 2. They are fishing for a price. They ask for book price, and will work a bit from there. Offer too low as a base and they won't even talk to you.

Had one guy with a Cesnna 140, mid time engine, VFR, willing to negotiate on anything found at annual who was asking too much (IMHO). Told him thanks, but he was out of my range. Emailed me a couple of months later asking if I was still interested for about $5K less. Annual complete. I thought about it, and said I was out of the market for the moment, but thank you very much for the consideration. If he had a firm offer, don't let me hold it up. Somoene told me that the final sale price was about $10K less than the initial asking price, based on prebuy findings.

Lesson? Get that prebuy from someone you trust, even if it costs a few bucks!!! The fewer surprises and better negotiating position appear to be worth it.:yes:
 
Joe, I love the nice feel of the Warrior and it is a good package for you (two grown-ups and a kid), and the look-and-feel of his one are great, but I agree that the price is high for its overall equipment level. Of particular note, I'd expect either a IFR-cert GPS or a DME for your IR training and flight.

Of course, you have plenty of panel room and a nice MFD display, so just pop in a good KLN89B driving the MFD (installed and certified), and you are good to go.

But I'd still like to see about $10k knocked off of the price.
 
Joe Williams said:
I like this Warrior. It's a little pricey, but it's absolutely beautiful. A little light on avionics, but it's actually got plenty for what I do with a plane, or plan to do with my family in it. And my wife would go bonkers over the matching pillows :)

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=98977
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Nice looking plane, but as always, the answer is in the details. Really takes a good look-see to determine what was done on the OH, condition and maintainence. Don't remeber if the '77 had the stretched cabin or not to give you some more back seat room. Avionics are certainly good for getting your IR and more than enough for VFR cruising. Really comes down to condition. Do think he is asking the upper part of the price range, but you get what you pay for, if well maintained and trouble free, its a personal decision whether to pay extra. Perhaps its the pillows that are the basis for the premium!:D Nice touch!

Gary
 
pretty plane! like the pillows too. ;)

stupid question - what would be a good BASIC avionics package for IR? if this one doesn't have "enough" what else would one be looking for (without going overboard).
 
woodstock said:
pretty plane! like the pillows too. ;)

stupid question - what would be a good BASIC avionics package for IR? if this one doesn't have "enough" what else would one be looking for (without going overboard).
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The one thing I feel like is needed is either the IFR-cert GPS or the DME, because with only one VOR, no cross-bearing method is extant; no means of identifying step-down fixes (w/o very rapid flip-flopping and knob-twisting).

Just my $0.02.
 
woodstock said:
pretty plane! like the pillows too. ;)

stupid question - what would be a good BASIC avionics package for IR? if this one doesn't have "enough" what else would one be looking for (without going overboard).
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Absolute minimum for me would be two nav/coms and two CDIs with an auto pilot that will do at least wing leveling. I would only use this for basic IFR stuff. Layers I could up on top of. And with the Warrior a stadnby vacum is needed in case of a pump failure.

I would prefer to also add to the above a DME and/or basic IFR GPS to make the flight safer.

For this plane one would have to add a second nav/com as there is only a comm2 radio, a second CDI a KLN90B or KLN89B which does talk to that nice KMD150 display, an autopilot and a standby vacuum.
 
That plane has enough equipment to get your IR in. It's got enough equipment for basic IFR work. It has more than enough to be a great VFR airplane.

One inexpensive upgrade if you wanted to beef up the IFR capability would be a KNS80. It has VOR/ILS/DME/RNAV. You can score one of these for less than a stand-alone DME box and in this case, it adds a full featured second NAV, DME and it lets you file /I so you can at least get a direct enroute sometimes. You can probably get one and indicator installed for $2000.

You could also add a KLN89B to the KMD150 and have a pretty nice IFR GPS solution.

I'd have to see the plane in person, but it has the look of a well-cared for plane. P&I is less than 3 years old and they didn't "cheap out". The equipment is certainly nice, all King, all good quality.

One thing I'll say as an owner: NICE airplanes are very rare do not be afraid to pay a premium for a NICE plane. They also don't last on the market too long. If you stumble upon a really nice, well cared-for plane, consider yourself lucky. I'm not saying this one is, no way to tell except to look.
 
tdager said:
Seems like a nice plane.

I have yet to fly a low-wing, but the wife really prefers the high-wings on the Cessna.
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My wife enjoys the Cessnas also, because she loves to check out the scenery below us while we are flying. But she's not rabid about it. My son much prefers low wings, because the view straight down scares him. I couldn't care less which I'm flying... so long as I'm flying :D
 
Plan on it!

When I land I'll still have 3.5 hrs of fuel onboard.

I plan to do a lot more flying and a lot less sitting on the ground at Gaston's now that I won't be charged by the Hobbs!



Bill Jennings said:
Steve, may I have a ride at Gastons. Will glady pay for the gas.
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Nice looking plane. I think the price is too high though. You could get
a reasonable Arrow for that.


Joe Williams said:
I like this Warrior. It's a little pricey, but it's absolutely beautiful. A little light on avionics, but it's actually got plenty for what I do with a plane, or plan to do with my family in it. And my wife would go bonkers over the matching pillows :)

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=98977
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larrysb said:
How is that comparable?

Cracked plastics, old paint, tired radios, raggy interior, no GPS/MFD.
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Its comparable or arguably supperior due to pricing, performance and the minor cosmetic stuff can be fixed easily. For the difference in price you can also buy a lot of avionics.
 
Anthony said:
Its comparable or arguably supperior due to pricing, performance and the minor cosmetic stuff can be fixed easily. For the difference in price you can also buy a lot of avionics.
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That was kind of my thinking. For the $20K price difference, you could get paint, interior, and the KMD-150 installed. I kind of like the KX155/KMD-150 combo for the flying I do. Or one could install a Garmin 430 and get either paint or interior done. Maybe...

Of course, that would mean having the plane sit around for six months or a year after you bought it while it's worked on, instead of going flying right now.
 
Joe Williams said:
Of course, that would mean having the plane sit around for six months or a year after you bought it while it's worked on, instead of going flying right now.
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True, but you would get exactly what you want instead of somebody elses vision of what is needed.
 
4 replies bfore Anthony made the Grumman suggestion. Who won the pool this week?
 
N2212R said:
4 replies bfore Anthony made the Grumman suggestion. Who won the pool this week?
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You ain't seen nothin yet. Wait till I buy a Mooney. :D
 
I would bet that Anthony would feel claustrophobia in that aircraft as compared to the Tiger. Note that it has the original front window....changing to the 201 style front window is a$5K or $6K event...requires significant down time and you want the right person doing the work 'cause it involves cutting metal.

Len
 
Joe, I think you and your family would really be happier in a Dakota.
 
wangmyers said:
Joe, I think you and your family would really be happier in a Dakota.
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Well... so do I. But I have an actual chance in a couple years of owning, and being able to afford flying, something like that Warrior. Not so much the Dakota.
 
SCCutler said:
OK, Joe, here's what looks to me like a darned fine deal.

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=98388&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=309356xxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxregionid=-1xxxxxmode=latestxxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxmmgid=-1xxxxxmodelgroup=falsexxxxxsearchid=309356xxxxxregionid=-1

Affordable, still simple, and a little room to grow in your skills. Get a solid 135-140 knots and do it at 10GPH or less.

Replace the second Nav/Com with an IFR-cert GPS-com, driving the MFD, you're rockin'.
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That looks almost too good to be true. Good price and a decent AC. Check to see if the latest SB is complied with for the wing spars before buying though. That could run you a few bucks if it isn't.
 
SCCutler said:
OK, Joe, here's what looks to me like a darned fine deal.

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=98388&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxsearchid=309356xxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxregionid=-1xxxxxmode=latestxxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxmmgid=-1xxxxxmodelgroup=falsexxxxxsearchid=309356xxxxxregionid=-1

Affordable, still simple, and a little room to grow in your skills. Get a solid 135-140 knots and do it at 10GPH or less.

Replace the second Nav/Com with an IFR-cert GPS-com, driving the MFD, you're rockin'.
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Wow... that would work nicely! If it's in good shape, that seems like a great deal to me :)
 
Joe Williams said:
Wow... that would work nicely! If it's in good shape, that seems like a great deal to me :)
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I almost bought an Arrow that was this vintage as well. Go0od plane. Just be sure that you have the extra cash set aside mor ethe additional maintenance stuff that could show up with the retract gear, there will be a slight increase in insurance but the quotes I got were only a few hundred more than what I paid on the Warrior.
 
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