Mooney Load Capacity

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Jaybird180, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    What's the load carrying capability of the M20J? The data I have puts figures all over the map. Any M20J fliers care to share their POH numbers?
     
  2. pcorman

    pcorman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Square window M20J have GW of about 2740.
    Round window M20Js have a GW of about 160lbs more (circa 1989 or 1990).

    Empty weights of about 1670lbs.
     
  3. Lance F

    Lance F Pattern Altitude

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    Mine (a 1984 J) has a useful load of 900#. Full fuel is 64 gallons or 384#.
     
  4. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

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    My 98J had a useful load of...900ish, with full fuel it was down to 520ish.

    Keep in mind that full fuel is 6+ hours, so it was never a problem to trade fuel for payload.
     
  5. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Except that the Mooney's are so efficient that you have to trade a lot of miles for every 100 lbs of fuel. One of the "advantages" of a twin is that you can leave behind a couple hundred pounds of fuel with only a small dent in the range.:D
     
  6. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So carrying 850lb in the cabin on a 500 nm leg with IFR reserves might be a problem eh? (that was the OP's mission requirement stated in a different thread). Even with the GW increase after 1989 you'd come up shy.
     
  7. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

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    850 for 500 nm plus ifr reserves would be tough for most singles.

    sent from my android
     
  8. Lance F

    Lance F Pattern Altitude

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    Lance's logic immediately convinced me that I need a twin. I'm going into the other room and tell Sue immediately. Controller.com here I come.
     
  9. dennyleeb

    dennyleeb Line Up and Wait

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    The Mooney is a 2 place plane....
     
  10. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    How big are you, Denny?
    I put my whole family in a M20J (960 useful), ski gear, clothes for a week and admittedly had to offload ~20 gallons from my Monroy tanks....

    You don't carry much fuel as the aircraft is so parsimonious with Avgas.....
     
  11. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    I have not met your daughters, but you can't say that you and Sue are the FAA average weight persons. :wink2:

    You do like big words, don't you? :D
     
  12. dennyleeb

    dennyleeb Line Up and Wait

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    Ok
    I am 210
    wife 140
    80gal (The ovation I looked at held 100) 480

    so that is 830
    the gear you described at least 70
    960
    at 960lb usefull load you have room for 2 two year olds i guess (dropping fuel to get there)
     
  13. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    Wow! Amazing that you put that together

    Seems that many things need updating in this industry

    One of the reasons why I like the medium body Mooney. The C is a bit shorter

    I think I can live with being 4 lbs short. WOOOHOOO!!!! Round Window M20J, here I come!!!:goofy:
     
  14. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I suspect that you'll find that most if not all late model M20s still come up quite a bit shorter than that. Two owners posted useful loads 140-150 lbs lower than Phil's numbers for the square window birds. And IME when the GW of a model is increased the useful load goes up by a significantly smaller amount or even decreases due to an accompanying empty weight increase. You might want to email the owners of some M20Js who have their planes listed for sale and query them WRT their actual GW and basic empty weight (make sure that includes the weight of oil and unusable fuel, the certification rules didn't always require that).
     
  15. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And a piece of cake for the good ones.

     
  16. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, he just possesses an unequivocal predilection for their utilization in his postifications. What's it to you?

     
  17. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    1253lbs useful in the Comanche.
    -850lbs
    -----
    403lb/6ppg =67gal /12.5gph = 5.4h x 150ktas = 810nm :D:D

    :cornut::cornut::cornut:

    ok, so call it 4.4h plus 1hr reserve. That's still 660nm And if runwayfinder was still up I could draw a circle on it showing my range.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  18. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    What did they do to add another 160lbs capacity? A decently equipped 81-201 just popped up on Barnstormers for 79k. Hmmmmmm...I'm beginning to think this may be doable....
     
  19. Lance F

    Lance F Pattern Altitude

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    I beg to differ. Four full size adults; bags for a long weekend; Atlanta to Cedar Key, FL (and then back to Cross City 'cause there's no gas at Cedar Key)
     

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  20. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    All depends on your definition of "full size."
     
  21. NC Pilot

    NC Pilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    Piper Lance
    Piper Cherokee 6
    Piper Dakota (I think)
    Cessna 182
    Cessna 182 RG
    Cessna 172 w/180 hp (it would be a stretch and a long ride though)

    There may be more, but it is a short list.
     
  22. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

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    I don't think Recent 182s or the 172 SPs would do this... I'll run the numbers. 850 Lbs without fuel is tough.
     
  23. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    172N w/ 180 hp Penn Yan conversion carries about 750 pounds with full long range (50 gal) tanks. At least, the one in our club does. 50 gal works out to about 6 hours to tanks dry at 65% power. About 3 hours longer than I'm going to sit in it without a rest stop. 114 KIAS at that power setting at typical cruise altitudes.
     
  24. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Penn Yan's 180HP STC includes a 250lb GW increase. I don't know how much the STC increases the empty weight though.
     
  25. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

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    OK - some numbers:

    My 1998 J model Mooney... 2900 MGW - 1967 BEW - 933 for fuel and stuff. Won't carry 850 lbs and 500 NM of fuel and reserves.

    N935FA - Recent 182 - 3100 MGW - 2026 - 1074 for fuel and stuff - 224 lbs of fuel is 37 gallons - not anywhere near 500 NM and reserves.

    N7264D - Recent 206 - 3600 MGW - 2236 BEW - 1364 for fuel and stuff. 514 lbs of fuel is almost full, and is enough for 500 NM plus reserves at normal cruise.

    Older airplanes were lighter, but didn't have nearly the same load of avionics and other stuff. I don't know of any 4 seat airplanes that will meet the requirements except the ones made back in the 60s and 70s. Even those may not do the job if they've been upgraded with stuff like autopilots, engine monitors, GPS, and newer interiors.

    The 6 seaters can do the job, but then you pay a large fuel bill for the trips when it's only 500 lbs of stuff.
     
  26. elmetal

    elmetal Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Stop at williston, just east/northeast of Cedar. Cheapest fuel around.

    Not to mention Cedar key is a stampsized runway, you want to come in as light as possible
     
  27. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just looked at a DB of some actual model 33 and 35 Bonanzas and found that most could handle the total weight but some ended up out the aft CG. All of them were "4 seaters". The addition of tip tanks and a 3 blade prop helps. One Debonair (BE33) with 20 gallon tips could do it with more than 90 gallons of fuel, enough to fly about 1000 nm with an hour's reserve.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  28. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    Not much. Our club's C-172N with the Penn Yan conversion weighs 1494 pounds empty. 300 pounds of fuel (50 gal useable) and your left with 756 pounds in the cabin. Better load hauler with full tanks than our 182 or Arrow.
     
  29. brywd

    brywd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Made my day. Good post.
     
  30. NC Pilot

    NC Pilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    My old 172 could hold 810 lbs with full tanks (45 gallons). Running the numbers again I really don't think this would work well. Way too much time sitting in a cramped cockpit.
     
  31. NC Pilot

    NC Pilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    No, you would have to go with an older 182 to get the range and payload.

    Either the 182 RG, and Lance would my choices for a single.
     
  32. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Data point: 1971 182N with long range tanks, new paint, new-ish interior (still fabric), and a panel with 2-axis autopilot, engine monitor, GPS... Basically, everything on your "upgrade" list (and a damn fine airplane because of it):

    2950 MGW, 1739 empty, 79 gallons fuel, 133 KTAS, 13gph.

    So, useful of 1211 lbs. That means we have 361 available for fuel, or 60 gallons. That's 4.6 hours - Call it 3.6 with an hour reserve, and that gets us 480nm. Pack a tiny bit lighter (12 pounds), or pick a fuel stop just a hair closer (20nm), or go with a 45-minute reserve and you've got it.
     
  33. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

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    Interesting - has the airplane been weighed recently? In my experience the actual BEW of an airplane is often higher (by a surprising amount) than the "calculated" BEW derived from all the changes over time.

    I know that in the case of one 172 the difference was 50 lbs!
     
  34. Ken Ibold

    Ken Ibold Final Approach

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    Isn't that the truth. An accumulation of dirt, grease, and "negligible weight increase" equipment.
     
  35. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Dunno the last time it was actually weighed, but that W&B info is only about a year old. It's also had a lot of old crap pulled out of it.
     
  36. dennyleeb

    dennyleeb Line Up and Wait

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    without cheating on weights and gal of fuel, show me the numbers
     
  37. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Not real hard for my Bonanza.

    Full fuel, I have 720 lb available for people and stuff, but that also gets me around 600 NM with IFR reserves (conservative numbers - flying lean of peak, actually a fair piece better.

    Hence, I have room to drop some gas for payload.

    CG is an issue, but soundly manageable; I remember reading how tough it was to maintain CG in Bonanzas, but it is not so bad; just don't put the bonecrushers and their anvils in the back.
     
  38. Lance F

    Lance F Pattern Altitude

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    Sorry, the flight from the picture was at least 2 years ago. I have no idea what the weights of the bags were or the other couple for that matter. It you're implying I was over weight, I'm sorry. I wasn't.
     
  39. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    1. Lance ain't like that;

    2. Lance don't weigh much.
     
  40. dennyleeb

    dennyleeb Line Up and Wait

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    Not implying it.. If you had little fuel on board. You don't have to be exact just give some close guesses on the weights.

    If it's and buts were cookies and nuts then every day would be Christmas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011