Missing VOR

Captain

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Today I flew over COE (Coeur D'Alene) VOR. The frequency box is displayed on Foreflights sectional, but not the VOR compass rose. Any idea why it's missing?
 
Captain said:
Today I flew over COE (Coeur D'Alene) VOR. The frequency box is displayed on Foreflights sectional, but not the VOR compass rose. Any idea why it's missing?
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I fly over it all the time, will be flying via it this weekend also, Never noticed it (Though this is my stomping air and I wouldn't have FF loaded up anyway) it's on the edge of the great falls and seattle sectional, maybe FF is doing something weird where they overlap? I've seen strange things happen around the edges of a TAC/Sectional when they try to combine them.

EDIT: Just looked at both my sectionals, it's not on either one of them.
 
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Got curious and found this on the student pilot forum.

http://www.studentpilot.com/interact/forum/archive/index.php/t-28990.html

If a VOR/VORTAC/VOR-DME does not have any victor airways originating/ending at it, we are not required to chart a compass rose for said navaid. Its purely based upon the discretion of the cartographer of that chart.

For these navaids without airways...sometimes they might have compass rose anyways...space/congestion permitting.

Dont be embarrased about the question. It took a while before I found that out myself....and I make these charts for a living.
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And I was this close to going to bed without learning something today!

Thanks.
 
Actually, they can omit them from SECTIONALS even if they have airways passing through them. See DCA for example.

The rule about the airways is for the IFR charts.
 
Captain said:
Today I flew over COE (Coeur D'Alene) VOR. The frequency box is displayed on Foreflights sectional, but not the VOR compass rose. Any idea why it's missing?
Click to expand...

No compass rose on the IFR en route low altitude chart either.
 
Nor are the VOR compass roses on the FAA approach charts either. But, with Jepp you get the VOR compass rose on the low-altitude en route chart and on the approach charts. (see attached)

You get what you pay for. :rofl:
 

Attachments

  • Jepp COE VOR Rose.pdf
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LearDriver said:
Which chart is it missing off of?
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Chart number? I don't know. I was using Foreflight. Bartmc said he looked at paper sectionals and it wasn't there either. Maybe he knows the chart number.

COE is in Northern Idaho. We were heading to Sandpoint, ID (KSZT).
 
denverpilot said:
I just get a kick out of saying you're going to the Flippin' Airport!!!
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That and 41XS in Texas.

27K: Navion 27K 5000 over Macho Grande
ATC: Over macho grande?
27K: No, I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande.
 
The VOR isn't missing, just the rose. The VOR itself is indicated by the cutout dot in the middle of the aerodrome symbol for the COE airport. That IS explained in the legend attached to the paper chart (or the raw geotiff files from NACO) if you have them.
 
flyingron said:
That and 41XS in Texas.

27K: Navion 27K 5000 over Macho Grande
ATC: Over macho grande?
27K: No, I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande.
Click to expand...

That made my whole day to learn there's a real Macho Grande airport.

God I'm bored.
 
Captain said:
Chart number? I don't know. I was using Foreflight. Bartmc said he looked at paper sectionals and it wasn't there either. Maybe he knows the chart number.

COE is in Northern Idaho. We were heading to Sandpoint, ID (KSZT).
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SZT is one of my favorite airports (and nice little tourist trap town) the Quest Kodiak is an interesting plane that they build there, keep an eye out for one.
 
Captain said:
Chart number? I don't know. I was using Foreflight. Bartmc said he looked at paper sectionals and it wasn't there either. Maybe he knows the chart number.

COE is in Northern Idaho. We were heading to Sandpoint, ID (KSZT).
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I use JeppFD and the VOR label and freq come up on the enroute chart. However to get the morse code for ident I have to pull up an approach plate.

Don't ask me how to ident an enroute nav aid without the morse code on the digital version, because I cant see it displayed on the digital enroute. I still have to pull out paper for that.
 
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I have never looked at the morse code on a plate or sectional.
COE is dah-di-dah-dit dah-dah-dah dit.
I've been able to tell you that since I was nine or so.

It took some convincing with my instructor the first time.
 
LearDriver said:
Good for you. I'm not memorizing morse code. It's too late in the game for that.
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I also used to have a Kneeboard that had the morse code table written out on it along with other pieces of useful information like what the light gun signals meant.
 
So just checking... did we find the missing VOR? Must have been one heck of a big flatbed truck that hauled it off... :)
 
denverpilot said:
So just checking... did we find the missing VOR? Must have been one heck of a big flatbed truck that hauled it off... :)
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We found it. Captain just had to put on his glasses to find it.
 
denverpilot said:
So just checking... did we find the missing VOR? Must have been one heck of a big flatbed truck that hauled it off... :)
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No, the compass rose is what's missing, as the OP said, and it's still not really clear why.
 
Captain said:
No, the compass rose is what's missing, as the OP said, and it's still not really clear why.
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Since it it not missing from neither Jepp's Low-altitude nor Jepp's KCOE approach charts as I posted in Message #8, doesn't that make it clear why?
 
flyingron said:
The VOR isn't missing, just the rose. The VOR itself is indicated by the cutout dot in the middle of the aerodrome symbol for the COE airport. That IS explained in the legend attached to the paper chart (or the raw geotiff files from NACO) if you have them.
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I thought Ron covered it.

It's quite clear on the Low Level Enroute IFR chart that it's a VOR/DME...

4b94241c-0978-950a.jpg


4b94241c-09a9-050f.jpg


And the legend Ron was referring to...

4b94241c-09ec-6a72.jpg


Note a compass rose isn't depicted on the VFR legend anywhere...

4b94241c-0a39-52a7.jpg


Here's a fun one from the IFR Low Enroute Legend...

What is an MEA and what does it provide?

"Minimum En Route Altitude (MEA) is defined as the published minimum altitude ASL between specified fixes on airways and air routes which ensures acceptable navigational signal coverage and which meets the IFR obstacle clearance requirements."

That's the textbook answer, of course. But then there is the MRA... And it's published when the MEA is lower than the crossing VOR radial can be used to identify the intersection. Okay, no problem.

But... You just thought you were assured acceptable navigation signal coverage. The chart folks say, no...

Check out the legend for the IFR Low Enroute chart...

4b94241c-0c63-d201.jpg


"MEA GAP". Never heard of it before. Have you?

Wasn't on any tests, wasn't mentioned by anyone. But it's there.

"MEA is established with a gap in navigation signal coverage."

The definition of MEA says nay-nay, acceptable navigation signal coverage is required.

The question is... is there a real MEA GAP published on a chart anywhere? I haven't found one yet.

If not, why is it on the legend? Keeping their options open to contradict themselves?

Fun, huh?

And of course, there was another PoA thread on it a while back, after a search, with no definitive conclusion as to why an MEA GAP would be used over raising the MEA other than speculation that it was to supposedly be nice to folks with aircraft that couldn't climb that high...

Although if there's no way to navigate there, you're assuming a GPS or other RNAV system, so it's still effectively gone for VOR only aircraft and nothing published to show how high one would have to be to receive the Navaid(s).

Here's that segment between FFU and PUC mentioned in the other PoA thread. Note the IFR Low Enroute has the MEA GAP note...

4b94241c-1055-e512.jpg


But no problem noted at all on the VFR chart...

4b94241c-10dd-365d.jpg


We can maybe assume that the Airway is receivable somewhere below the High Altitude chart, above the MEA, because completely unusable VOR signals on a segment are charted this way...

4b94241c-1326-3b70.jpg


That blue number on the airway ending in "G" is a GNSS/RNAV MEA.

4b94241c-1385-5802.jpg


Wouldn't the FFU to PUC make more sense with a low GNSS/RNAV MEA, and higher standard (VOR) printed in black right above the blue RNAV one?
 
You should become familiar with the meaning of the cross hatch over the frequency of a VOR/VORTAC, as you will start seeing it more often as VOR's are discontinued. The VOR's will remain on the charts for some time after they are shut down. Here in my neck of the woods, FML was decomissioned at least 4 or 5 years before it was removed from the charts.
 
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