Missed after circling

[spiderweb]

This has always bothered me. You are flying an approach to Rwy 27, circle to land Rwy 9. You break out, circle, get lined up on final for 9, and then for whatever reason, need to fly the missed. Let's say there are mongo obstructions (and maybe a special ODP if one were to depart from this runway). Here's the problem:

You are supposed to make an initial turn towards the landing runway and then complete the missed. IOW, don't climb straight ahead in the wrong direction, or something. The missed only works where you are basically flying in the right direction--that's why you turn in that direction. Fine, but what is YOUR standard here? Obviously, power up and clean up and turn as soon as practical, but if you turn too soon you might get disoriented. I generally don't like to start a turn until I'm full power and clean, and at least 500 AGL. What do you do?

 

[spiderweb]

I just want to add that hopefully one has studied all of the approaches for that airport, so you know what can bite you. For example, in the case above, maybe you would only do a left turn to get aligned with the missed because turning right would put you near obstructions.

 

[John J]

Ben;

Very interesting points; The turns to make begin the miss would be to get to the heading called for on the chart for miss. In this case it might be for example a 180 left turn to 090. Which direction to turn would be based on obstical clearence etc. and shortest course change to get to the missed approach heading. The keys are shortest course change and obstical clearence. In some cases the course change on a circling miss might be much more than on a non circling approach.

I do not know a "Standard". I have always followed the chart for missed instructions or if I am in a radar enviroment I follow the controller vectors to do another or fly on to the alternate.

John

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, John. I should point out that I really am not asking about the published missed approach, but more about getting pointed in the right direction before beginning the missed approach. For example, if you were performing a straight-in, and missed, you would simply follow the procedure (not beginning any turns before reaching the MAP, of course). But if had completed the procedure, were visually circling, and THEN had to go missed, I remember that before you do any part of the published or ATC-directed miss, that you have to turn in the direction of the landing runway. (I'm at the office, so I can't provide a citation.) The reason, as I recall, was that you want to be pointed the right way before beginning the missed.

Case in point; take this approach at Cumberland:

http://download.aopa.org/iap/20051222/NE-3/cbe_loc_dme_rwy_23.pdf

Let us assume you were landing on Runway 11. You've flown the approach, and just before the MAP and past the VDP you break out. So, you circle to the southwest (northwest certainly not allowed) and finally get lined up on final for Rwy 11. But now, you run into some clouds and are in IMC. You need to initiate the missed. Power up, and clean up. Here are your missed instructions: "Climbing left turn to 5000 via heading 184, etc." This doesn't make sense; that's why I understood one was supposed to first turn in the direction of the landing runway, THEN do the missed. If, in this case, I do a climbing left turn, I am moving away from the missed approach procedure, not towards it; so instead, I would first turn right to align myself with a heading of 184. Those missed instructions assume you were missing from runway heading, which is why I understood I need to at least consider that.

Does this make any sense?

 

[TeenDoc]

I may be wrong Ben but I would make a climbing right turn to a heading of 184*, intercept the GRV R-130 and proceed to the hold at KEYER. This would be the shortest route to KEYER and would keep me in the protected side of the missed approach turn.

 

[gismo]

This has always bothered me. You are flying an approach to Rwy 27, circle to land Rwy 9. You break out, circle, get lined up on final for 9, and then for whatever reason, need to fly the missed. Let's say there are mongo obstructions (and maybe a special ODP if one were to depart from this runway). Here's the problem:

You are supposed to make an initial turn towards the landing runway and then complete the missed. IOW, don't climb straight ahead in the wrong direction, or something. The missed only works where you are basically flying in the right direction--that's why you turn in that direction. Fine, but what is YOUR standard here? Obviously, power up and clean up and turn as soon as practical, but if you turn too soon you might get disoriented. I generally don't like to start a turn until I'm full power and clean, and at least 500 AGL. What do you do?

If you are already on final (opposite direction) you don't need much of a turn to get pointed at the runway, do you? The goal of that turn is to keep you in the protected area of the CTL procedure.

So climb over the runway back to at least the CTL mins and then complete the miss. If there's a restriction on the CTL maneuvering (EG Circling North of the runway N/A) then that restriction applies during the miss as well, at least until you are turned back around.

 

[poadeleted20]

First, in the original case, if you're lined up on short final for 9, you're already pointed at the "landing runway," so the "initial climbing turn toward the landing runway" has already been accomplished, and all you need do is follow the missed approach instructions. As long as you're within the protected zone (see Figure 5-4-20 in AIM section 5-4-19) and pointed at the "landing runway," you don't have to worry about obstructions (unless you are below MDA when you lose contact, in which case you have other problems and should make climbing, not turning, your first priority), since the CTL protected zone is based on all runways on the airport, not just the one to which the approach leads.

The turn towards the runway is a consideration if you are pointed away away from the airport, say, on a downwind for 9 after breaking off the published procedure to 27. See AIM Figure 5-4-21 in section 5-4-20 for more on that. That would be a consideration on the Cumberland approach if you were planning to land on 29, and had turned to something like 150 at the MAP to get on a right base for 29. In that case, you'd turn right to point the nose at the airport before turning left to 184 to fly the missed approach.

As for circling to 5 at Cumberland, the "Circling not authorized northwest of Rwy 5-23" restriction clearly creates an exception to the general rule. This tells you than you do not have the usual obstacle protection other than on the southeast side. In this case, if you were southwest of the airport on final for 5, you would turn right, not left, to reach the 184 heading.

 

[John J]

Ben;

It does make a lot of sense for when you turn from Runway 11 to the 184 heading which in this case is a Right Turn you are taking the shortest course change from 110 to 184.Also you are taking the shortest distance toward the missed approach flight path and area You are right for if you made a Left Turn you would flying out over obsticales.

An old mentor of mine told me a long time ago that flying circling approaches always try to keep the missed approach route within easy reach and stay away from obsticales. I really try hard to avoid the circling approach unless the weather is decent enough. I never did them at night.

John

 

[wsuffa]

My rule of thumb is to follow the requirements (e.g. turn toward landing runway, then execute the missed)... absent any instructions to the contrary on the approach plate, if I need to make a turn to get onto the missed approach, I make the turn on the side of the runway upon which I circled.

In the Cumberland approach, the turn to the missed approach is on the side on which circling is permitted.

 

[spiderweb]

. . .you don't have to worry about obstructions (unless you are below MDA when you lose contact, in which case you have other problems and should make climbing, not turning, your first priority), since the CTL protected zone is based on all runways on the airport, not just the one to which the approach leads..

That's what I was looking for, especially if you were on final, below MDA, pointed in the "wrong" direction for the missed.

The turn towards the runway is a consideration if you are pointed away away from the airport, say, on a downwind for 9 after breaking off the published procedure to 27. See AIM Figure 5-4-21 in section 5-4-20 for more on that. That would be a consideration on the Cumberland approach if you were planning to land on 29, and had turned to something like 150 at the MAP to get on a right base for 29. In that case, you'd turn right to point the nose at the airport before turning left to 184 to fly the missed approach.

As for circling to 5 at Cumberland, the "Circling not authorized northwest of Rwy 5-23" restriction clearly creates an exception to the general rule. This tells you than you do not have the usual obstacle protection other than on the southeast side. In this case, if you were southwest of the airport on final for 5, you would turn right, not left, to reach the 184 heading.

OK, that's great, and that's what I thought. It make sense, and would probably not hurt as much!

 

[spiderweb]

Ben;

It does make a lot of sense for when you turn from Runway 11 to the 184 heading which in this case is a Right Turn you are taking the shortest course change from 110 to 184.Also you are taking the shortest distance toward the missed approach flight path and area You are right for if you made a Left Turn you would flying out over obsticales.

An old mentor of mine told me a long time ago that flying circling approaches always try to keep the missed approach route within easy reach and stay away from obsticales. I really try hard to avoid the circling approach unless the weather is decent enough. I never did them at night.

John

Thank you. I got the same advice from my CFII, as well. Actually, I don't like night flying at all, anyway.

 

[spiderweb]

My rule of thumb is to follow the requirements (e.g. turn toward landing runway, then execute the missed)... absent any instructions to the contrary on the approach plate, if I need to make a turn to get onto the missed approach, I make the turn on the side of the runway upon which I circled.

In the Cumberland approach, the turn to the missed approach is on the side on which circling is permitted.

Thanks, Bill.

 

[spiderweb]

Basically, I see the general answer to this question as being the life-saving requirement that one should be as familiar as possible with all of the approaches for the airports where one is landing, as well as the terrain around it.

 

[poadeleted20]

It does make a lot of sense for when you turn from Runway 11

Since circling NW of Rwy 5-23 is prohibited, how can you circle to Rwy 11? Can't be legal under IFR. Only way I see to land on 11 out of the 23 approach is to cancel IFR (which requires 91.155 VMC existing at the time), and then a missed approach back into the goo is no longer an available option.

 

[gismo]

Basically, I see the general answer to this question as being the life-saving requirement that one should be as familiar as possible with all of the approaches for the airports where one is landing, as well as the terrain around it.

My general philosophy is CTL only when I can do it in the daytime at pattern altitude (with at least a couple miles vis) unless I've been to that airport enough times to have a good feel for the surrounding area.

 

[spiderweb]

Since circling NW of Rwy 5-23 is prohibited, how can you circle to Rwy 11? Can't be legal under IFR. Only way I see to land on 11 out of the 23 approach is to cancel IFR (which requires 91.155 VMC existing at the time), and then a missed approach back into the goo is no longer an available option.

Right. I know this airport, but it looks like one could circle southwest of 5-23. I do know, though, that it would have to be pretty tight. 5-23, as I understand it, is really not used that often.

 

[AdamZ]

Ben:

1) CTL is bad. I'd only do it if I HAD to. Don't like em.

2) Perhaps I am confused about your question. You say you are flying the app to 27 and CTL for 9. When lined up for 9 you have to go "missed". When lined up on short final for 9 arent' you way beyond the MAP? The MAP should be on the final for 27 before you start to circle. I guess technically you are doing a go around rather than a missed approach. The question is a good mental exercise but that leads me back to my intial point CTL bad.

 

[gismo]

Ben:

1) CTL is bad. I'd only do it if I HAD to. Don't like em.

CTL can be a lot riskier than a straight in approach, but not all CTL's are alike. Being familiar with the area allows you to know just how risky a given CTL is. The other two big risk factors beyond local terrain/obstructions are the visibility and daylight. Most approaches are just as easy in the dark because the approach lights show up as well or better, but CTL requires that you be able to see more than the runway and approach lights. Some airports are only served by a CTL approach, but without terrain and obstacle issues and with a several hundred foot ceiling plus a few miles vis, they are relatively save and easy. Toss in nearby hills, towers, along with poor visibility and you may find yourself in jeopardy. One additional thing you can do to improve your chances is to practice CTL realistically as part of your proficiency training. Normally I wouldn't descend below the normal pattern altitude unless necessary to maintain visual contact in a CTL approach, but I believe it's a real good idea to practice CTL at the approach min's (in good VMC with a safety pilot watching carefully for traffic which is likely to be above you and not looking for anyone at your altitude) to gain a perspective of how close to the ground and obstacles you really are. When doing this at an uncontrolled field be sure to announce both your position and altitude multiple times. Finally make sure you turn the runway lights all the way up on any CTL approach day or night. Often it's not easy to pick up the runway environment and maintain visual contact with it when flying at CTL mins and bright runway lights plus any approach lights can help immensely.

2) Perhaps I am confused about your question. You say you are flying the app to 27 and CTL for 9. When lined up for 9 you have to go "missed". When lined up on short final for 9 arent' you way beyond the MAP? The MAP should be on the final for 27 before you start to circle. I guess technically you are doing a go around rather than a missed approach. The question is a good mental exercise but that leads me back to my intial point CTL bad.

In any CTL procedure the MAP only dictates when to give up trying to get visual contact with the runway. Once you have that (before or at the MAP) you can exit the final approach segment but you are still on an IFR approach with the possibility of a miss at any point prior to touchdown if you lose contact with the runway or encounter any reason you cannot land. Because you are no longer on a published approach segment once you start to "circle" the initial stage(s) of any missed approach are somewhat variable depending on where you are and what your heading is at the time.

 

[poadeleted20]

Right. I know this airport, but it looks like one could circle southwest of 5-23. I do know, though, that it would have to be pretty tight.

The restriction says you are not supposed to be doing any circling northwest of Rwy 5-23. I don't see how you can land on Rwy 11 without doing that, unless after the MAP you fly down Rwy 23, turn left at the intersection, and land on what's left of Rwy 11 -- a maneuver I'd have to characterize as "hairy."

 

[gismo]

The restriction says you are not supposed to be doing any circling northwest of Rwy 5-23. I don't see how you can land on Rwy 11 without doing that, unless after the MAP you fly down Rwy 23, turn left at the intersection, and land on what's left of Rwy 11 -- a maneuver I'd have to characterize as "hairy."

Might work in a helicopter.

 

[Everskyward]

Right. I know this airport, but it looks like one could circle southwest of 5-23. I do know, though, that it would have to be pretty tight. 5-23, as I understand it, is really not used that often.

Why is 5-23 not used that often? It's twice as long as 11-29.

 

[spiderweb]

Why is 5-23 not used that often? It's twice as long as 11-29.

Brain fart--I meant 11-29.

 

[spiderweb]

The restriction says you are not supposed to be doing any circling northwest of Rwy 5-23. I don't see how you can land on Rwy 11 without doing that, unless after the MAP you fly down Rwy 23, turn left at the intersection, and land on what's left of Rwy 11 -- a maneuver I'd have to characterize as "hairy."

It sure is. I've flown the approaches here a few times, and I know one thing--I would never circle here, even in allowed quadrants, unless I had good VMC.