Minimum Staffing

Velocity173

Velocity173

Touchdown! Greaser!
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
15,222
Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
The controllers falling asleep in the tower a few years back got me thinking. What do you all have as far as min manning in the tower? We used to have a min of 2 (Twr sup & local/ground combined) and only during light traffic.
 
I can't speak for the controllers but one of the APA guys one night misconstrued a joke I made to him over the air late at night as a request to come up and visit the cab. He said I'd have to schedule during the day, he was alone up there. "All services on Tower Frequency ..." All night, every night. Whether he had a sup hiding somewhere I couldn't tell ya.
 
denverpilot said:
I can't speak for the controllers but one of the APA guys one night misconstrued a joke I made to him over the air late at night as a request to come up and visit the cab. He said I'd have to schedule during the day, he was alone up there. "All services on Tower Frequency ..." All night, every night. Whether he had a sup hiding somewhere I couldn't tell ya.
Click to expand...

Contract? I think they can get away with one up there. At least they used to. My brother used to work by himself in Sugar Land TX in a little portable air show tower before they went permanent. No witnesses around to write up your operational errors. :)
 
AIr Force controllers minimum of 2, supervisor and controller, in the tower.

RAPCONs (approach control) usually 3 if there was a PAR (Sup, approach, & PAR controllers). This was usually on the midnight shift.
 
Last edited:
Velocity173 said:
Contract? I think they can get away with one up there. At least they used to. My brother used to work by himself in Sugar Land TX in a little portable air show tower before they went permanent. No witnesses around to write up your operational errors. :)
Click to expand...

Not at APA. Training tower even. So there was probably someone else hiding up there. Haha.
 
Minimum of two from 7am to 11pm. Sups work alone from 11 pm to 7 am. It sucks.
 
The reason for staffing a minimum of 2 controllers is because of the fatigue problems illuminated a few years ago. Like Timbeck2 said, if the controller is a supervisor, they can be single-staffed overnight.

Side note: Every tower is a "training tower" for all intents and purposes...that's an odd term that gets loosely thrown around for no reason.
 
Harold Rutila said:
Side note: Every tower is a "training tower" for all intents and purposes...that's an odd term that gets loosely thrown around for no reason.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Around here they seem to get more than their fair share of trainees. Maybe the daytime pace is just high enough that they're more noticeable than other towered airports.

I've been perpetuating that phrase about APA since the early 90s, when it was told to me by old guys back then, and I've never heard folks who sound as "newbie" at the job as at my home base, at any of the other towered airports in the area, so I never really questioned it.

Maybe the other towers "cover" better for their trainees or have more time to coach off-air rather than hearing another controller jump in and clean up the furball the newbie created for themselves on a busy Saturday. Heh.
 
Not just towers but all facilities are training facilities. Even when you show up to a new facility as a qualified controller, you have to train on position to get signed off. Where my brother works, he's got trainees that have been training for 4 yrs and still not facility rated!
 
Velocity173 said:
Where my brother works, he's got trainees that have been training for 4 yrs and still not facility rated!
Click to expand...

They probably are checked out in various positions (CD, approach etc) but haven't qualified for the facility rating yet. In tower one had to have at least GC, FD, & LC to get the FAA CTO certificate. This was in the Air Force so you're mileage may vary.
 
mscard88 said:
They probably are checked out in various positions (CD, approach etc) but haven't qualified for the facility rating yet. In tower one had to have at least GC, FD, & LC to get the FAA CTO certificate. This was in the Air Force so you're mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah they've got quals up there but aren't facility rated up & down yet. Took my brother less than a year to get both. This is a guy who was # 1 in his AF ATC class as well as his AFSS class and his radar class in OK City.

Because of the back log in training they have some serious manning issues. Getting leave is a problem.
 
Last edited:
I haven't noticed that the APA controllers seem any "newbier" than at other towers. TRACON, however...
 
There are few towers in the country that deal with as much traffic as Centennial does. It's a Level 8 on the FAA ATC facility scale, which is rather rare for standalone ATCTs (those without a TRACON in the facility). The traffic alone generates more opportunity for errors than a new controller might experience at a Level 4-7, where most new controllers go.

There are periods at every tower where they have a lot of trainees, and then there are periods where there are none. For those in the FAA western region, now is the period of rampant on-the-job training. Those places are so full that they won't accept any new hires from the academy.
 
Harold Rutila said:
There are few towers in the country that deal with as much traffic as Centennial does. It's a Level 8 on the FAA ATC facility scale, which is rather rare for standalone ATCTs (those without a TRACON in the facility). The traffic alone generates more opportunity for errors than a new controller might experience at a Level 4-7, where most new controllers go.

There are periods at every tower where they have a lot of trainees, and then there are periods where there are none. For those in the FAA western region, now is the period of rampant on-the-job training. Those places are so full that they won't accept any new hires from the academy.
Click to expand...

Great point.

It's also why when I go wandering XC I always feel like other airports feel kinda like ghost towns, with the exception of KDVT and of course OSH during the Big Week. Seriously.

You kinda get used to it with the radio constantly going and looking for all the traffic, and then you wander out to the plains or the Midwest and land on some airliner sized runway with a tower and wonder what they do all day after you get "cleared to land" ten miles out followed with "Remain this frequency, taxi to parking..." as you roll out. And you don't see or hear anyone else while you're shutting down and getting out.
 
Location, location, location.

Beyond that, services.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top