Medical Certificate & DUI Dismissal

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Pete1097

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I am a student pilot and started training thinking I would be ok since my 2018 DWI was dismissed and I did not have a conviction. There was no deferred adjudication, but it was a program called a pretrial intervention, where the charges are dismissed after successfully completing the conditions of their program.

The DWI was in 2018 and was dismissed in March, 2020. I swore off drinking (for real) for good and haven't drank since the arrest. Life is good and I had no idea this Medical Certificate was like this.

Anyone have any experience lately or any advice on what I can expect? Will I get deferred automatically if I refused the breathalyzer?

I am only applying to be a private pilot and I have no desire to ever work as a pilot for hire. Anyone have any advice on how to sort through this to where I get issued a SI private pilot license? Thanks for the tip. I'm glad I came here before I went in blind to an AME.
 
First, as far as the FAA is concerned, there is no free pass such as expungements, deferred adjudication, or pre-trial interventions. These things you describe live in the criminal law world, and the FAA operates in the administrative law world. Your DUI arrest still exists in a federal database. And since the FAA holds the keys to the United States aviation kingdom, they will make sure they know everything about you and your relationship with alcohol before allowing you in.

Second, since it is on record that you refused to blow, it is very likely the FAA will consider you were at 0.15 BAC or higher. And that likely means you will be asked to jump through the hoops to obtain your medical certificate.

Third, This is a cut and paste item I have when another airmen who "was about to solo" when he stopped by our humble forum for advice on his alcoholic background.

While this airman had 2 DUI incidents, much of what is here also applies to folks who have just a single incident. So hopefully this will help @pete1097 and others.

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That you have on record incidents where you were arrested for DUI events, that is very big thing that the FAA will want to want to know about. And they will want to know everything about you and alcohol.

And what they want to know isn’t just those single points in time.

They want to know SIGNIFICANTLY more about your overall physical and psychological makeup that got you to. Wing arrested for DUI and allows you to get there.

You tell us here on the forum about your incidents where you are caught by law enforcement. But what about all of the other times where your BAC was in the legally drunk spectrum, but you didn't have any encounters with law enforcement?

And keep in mind, this isn't about your ability to "hold your liquor", but that something inside is wanting alcohol, and because you have developed a tolerance level, you need to drink more in order to obtain the pleasure effects. So there may be some level of addiction going on, even if it is low.

The FAA acts as a warden to prevent individuals that have developed a tolerance for medium to high alcohol limits from obtaining and exercising pilot privileges. So for individuals such as yourself, the ball will be placed squarely in your court to prove beyond shadows of doubt that you are willing to prove you are worthy of flying privileges by doing everything they will ask of you.

The letter you are going to get regarding your deferred medical certificate will have the specific details of what the FAA wants. If you search through various pilot forums, such as the Red Board of AOPA and the blue one for Pilots of America, and you will see that the requirements to satisfy the FAA will include

  • A $9000 to $12,000 budget to pay for they various things the FAA will require of you. This includes the direct costs of exams as well as the travel costs to the different professionals whom you need to see during this journey
  • A neuro cognative psychological screen of extreme depth that only a very few HIMS psychologists can administer, paid for out of your pocket. Health insurance is unlikely to cover this costs. These very few HIMS psychologists are not publicly listed and you can only see them by referral of the Senior HIMS AME's
  • Direct sponsorship with a Senior HIMS AME, to whom you report to frequently and to whom you must demonstrate you are doing what is required to earn the medical certificate. There are very, very few of these AME’s, so plan onfrequent travel to see the one who is working your case. A list of the HIMS AME's can be found on the FAA.gov website
  • 90 days of intensive alcohol dependency treatment. This will likely be in the form of in-patient treatment.
  • 100% sobriety and abstinence from all alcohol. Wine with girlfriend and beer or shots with buddies is now verboten, für immer, for ever, zauvijek, pour toujours, aeternum!!
  • Documented routine attendance with alcohol dependency meetings (think Alcoholics Anonymous or similar), and this could be for a significant amount of time.
  • Many, many random pee in the cup whiz quizzes all documenting you are remaining 100% sober
  • And much, much more.
All of this must be done in exacting detail for you to be granted a Special Issuance medical. Only after continued proven 100% sobriety for a looooong period of time will you be allowed back into the normal issuance group.

Reading this and then saying back to us, “but I am not an alcoholic, I do not have a drinking problem” is an incorrect response.

That you have two DUI events is a strong indicator that, per the FAA standards, there is a problem.

The correct response is saying, “fine, I have a problem. Let’s get with meeting the requirements and make this thing happen.”

Humble and humility wins the day over arrogance and unwillingness to accept and change.

((and before anyone starts jumping on my head about my list, these are details developed from listening to Dr. Bruce Chien help others in this same predicament. I know many of you have high respect for him, so be kind in your critiques))

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"But I did what the judge asked (or my attorney advised) and my DUI incident or incidents have been expunged or reduced to not being a minor felony or major misdemeanor associated with alcohol"

"But my situation didn't
escalate to where charges were filed against me."

Do not confuse criminal law with the FAA's administrative law. The DUI events will ALWAYS remain on your records. In the FAA's view, no items, even ones you were told were expunged, are every truly gone. The fact they happened, and are discoverable in your background check, still matters to the FAA.

The preamble to the question you answered was "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE...." which for you means, yes, it did happen, and yes you will still be held accountable for these events by the FAA. And must ALWAYS answer Yes to the appropriate block on MedXpress Question 18.
 
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This post from Dr. Bruce Chien (a top level AME) May have some bearing on your situation.... especially the statement "I swore off drinking (for real) for good and haven't drank since the arrest".

Dr. Chien was replying to this thread....

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...-up-and-no-legal-trouble.126504/#post-2931584
Nobody was obligated to give you advice B4 you acted.
Think about it: not realizing that this would have repercussions and AME-ing without a consult first gives you a sense that you didn’t have B4 as to the seriousness of Alcohol. Even sober, “alcohol brain” made you do that. It’s really INSIDIOUS sh-t

so the first helpful thing I can ask....”can you substantiate the claim of sobriety for the 8 months...eg:
do you have a AA sponsor who can testify.
Are you in a job in which they random your urine?

See, you have the FAA diagnosis of alcohol dependency as you went to treatment and the rehab facility had to make the case for it, to get it paid for. You saved you life. You wouldn’t have been able to hide the $20,000 footprint of that....

So, the question (even if you can prove sobriety) is recovery, which is different from just Sobriety and “white knuckling” on. Recovery is in between your ears! (Not in your mouth, where sobriety resides).

FAA is not interested in certifying the dependent who are (1) not plainly (in between the ears) in recovery, which of course requires as a pre-condition, sobriety...(2) not knowledgable enough about the structure of recovery to run your own lifetime recovery program.

look up some posts on this site by ”Volitition”...you might get some insight.

Can you without looking it up, for example, describe AA’s “step 4 (of 12)?”
 
If I were you I would go for a sport pilot certificate. With your situation the faa is going to make getting a medical an absolutely miserable extremely long and expensive process.
 
You don't even have to search: there are countless threads in the medical topics subforum on what you'll need to deal with a DUI arrest.
 
My situation was similar to yours how it started out. It turned out I had a bigger problem with drinking than I thought, that eventually surfaced to the top, and now my situation is not so similar to yours. But I'll just give you the cliff notes on how I could have had a path that wasn't so bad.

Charged with a DUI, found not guilty which matters not to the FAA. I refused to blow; automatic deferral at my next medical. FAA ordered me to engage with HIMS AME and get an evaluation by a counselor certified in addiction. The HIMS AME told me who to see. Got the evaluation, result was termed "abuse."

FAA said I had to get 30 hrs of outpatient therapy followed by intermittent counseling, which for me was once per month. 2 years of random urine tests to confirm sobriety. Then I would be done and back to normal medical certificates. I had a SI in less than a year. This was in 2017.

What I just described is not terribly expensive and fairly short term in the grand scheme of things. The fact that you have stopped drinking is good. Keep it that way if you want to pursue flying at this point, regardless of whether you are being monitored. Continuing to drink after a DUI, assuming some other minor incident gets the FAA's attention, will be an automatic dependence diagnosis, no questions asked.

If I could give 2 pieces of advice to take away above all else:

1) Be honest with yourself about your situation as best you can. If you had tendencies that will result in a dependence diagnosis instead of abuse, you're looking at a much more difficult, but still doable, path.
2) Get a consult with a HIMS AME about your situation and get an idea for what the current environment is with the FAA for a situation like yours. Examples like mine are no substitute for getting information from the doctors seeing what is actually happening right now with a variety of cases.
 
Thank you @KeepWatch for sharing your experience. May I have permission to add your story to my cut and paste items?
 
You want to fly?

Here's what you need to know:

You do not need a medical certificate to fly gliders.
You do not need a medical certificate to fly balloons.
You do not need a medical certificate to fly light sport.
If you apply for a medical certificate and are denied, it may take away some of these options.

If you're just flying for fun, it is much more important that you not get denied a medical certificate than that you have one. You dig?

So for now, you can skip all the complicated stuff and go light sport. In the background, talk to an experienced AME (someone who regularly deals with DUIs) about your history and what you'd need to do to get a third class if you choose to. As long as you don't fill out the medexpress, you can keep training and flying LS. So don't do that until you know for certain that you're going to be approved.
 
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I am a student pilot and started training thinking I would be ok since my 2018 DWI was dismissed and I did not have a conviction. There was no deferred adjudication, but it was a program called a pretrial intervention, where the charges are dismissed after successfully completing the conditions of their program.

The DWI was in 2018 and was dismissed in March, 2020. I swore off drinking (for real) for good and haven't drank since the arrest. Life is good and I had no idea this Medical Certificate was like this.

Anyone have any experience lately or any advice on what I can expect? Will I get deferred automatically if I refused the breathalyzer?

I am only applying to be a private pilot and I have no desire to ever work as a pilot for hire. Anyone have any advice on how to sort through this to where I get issued a SI private pilot license? Thanks for the tip. I'm glad I came here before I went in blind to an AME.
Bear in mind that part of the evaluation will likely be blood samples to obtain alcohol-use biomarkers, evaluating the likelihood that you are still drinking or relapsed.
 
Yes, you will be deferred. But I would not go until I had
DMV search 10 yrs, any state in which you had a DL
Personal statement- be careful here not to tell an impossible tale-we know your height and weight, it's part of the application.
Arresting officer's description of your behavior
CADC (Cert. Alc & drug Counselor) evaluation per DSM 4 not 5.
 
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