Mayday STOL drag races - Wayne NE

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Old97, May 20, 2022.

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  1. Old97

    Old97 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Anyone else from POA here?

    Unfortunately there has been a crash of a participant this evening.
     
  2. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    Not there but it intrigued me when I heard about the last one. Is this one of those aviation bucket list type events?
     
  3. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    the STOL community as a whole is probably responsible for a significant uptick in aircraft insurance rates.

    edit: I do hope the person was okay, I can't find any info online.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  4. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    With all the exceptions in insurance, are you actually covered if you bend a little metal in a "drag race" or other risky activity like that?
     
  5. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I would guess that generally as long as you aren't violating any FARs they will still cover you.
     
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  6. ksandrew

    ksandrew Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have folks wanting to that at my airstrip Just don't like the name of Drag Racing,
     
  7. wsquare

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  8. ronnieh

    ronnieh Cleared for Takeoff

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    "Just don't like the name of Drag Racing"?? That is an odd comment. Participating or spectator, it is a great sport and family orientated.
     
  9. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

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    I don't find it odd at all. I get it. He owns the airstrip. Drag racing means your going as fast as you can. STOL drags means your doing maneuvers in an airplane as fast you can just feet above the ground. The liability of allowing an event like that on my property would be a hard pass from me as well.
     
  10. ronnieh

    ronnieh Cleared for Takeoff

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    I took it the poster was talking drag racing in general, "the name drag racing". I don't even know what STOL drag racing is, never heard of it. So ya, found it odd to condemn the very term "drag racing". He seemed to suggest just call it something else and it would be OK.
    And to your other point in conventional drag racing it is not about speed but, rather elapsed time from point A to point B.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  11. Lndwarrior

    Lndwarrior Line Up and Wait

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    My recent Avemco policy specifically excludes "qualifying, or participating in closed course racing".
     
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  12. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

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    Any racing is dangerous. Been in more wrecks than I'd like to admit. And I totally get why someone would shy away from allowing such activity on their own property.

     
  13. OKDonn

    OKDonn Pre-Flight

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    From the news report, it sounds like the accident was not a part of the race?

    "According to a release from event officials, the pilot crashed on final approach at the Wayne Municipal Airport around 6:45 p.m. which had what to appeared to be a stall spin accident."
     
  14. Old97

    Old97 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It was part of the competition. Landing short and take off distance contest.
     
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  15. Johnvan

    Johnvan Pre-Flight

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    I think the STOL event was canceled that evening for wind. They were doing fun demo stuff. The video of the accident shows him following a Zenith 701 (maybe) which has a lower stall speed.
    He was following pretty close and you can hear the gusty winds and see the planes are in turbulent gusty conditions.
    Not good conditions for flying slow.
    I also wonder if the STOL technique of slipping aggressively to slow down gets pilots too comfortable flying uncoordinated while low and slow.
    He should have gone around.
     
  16. Initial Fix

    Initial Fix Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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  17. Ricky Bob

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    The thing that worries me is the "anyone can do it! Come on, sign up!" mentality. This type of flying should be treated more like airshows or air racing, IMHO.
     
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  18. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    Said by a guy who also said, “If you’re not first, you’re last!” How do those two statements even make sense, Ricky? Shake & bake!
     
  19. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    STOL competition has been around for years but not STOL drag. That was a recent effort by the "flying cowboys" to make STOL competition more interesting.
     
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  20. painless

    painless Pre-takeoff checklist

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    There’s no STOL drag at OSH. Just STOL demos.
     
  21. Peter Anderson

    Peter Anderson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I saw the video of it. He was in a Cessna 140 on final behind the slower zenith. He was getting too close and proceeded to do what looked to me like some S turns to create space. Thats when the plane stalled and spun in. RIP to the pilot. There was a recent flyingmag article about him. He left behind a wife and 5 kids.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  22. Initial Fix

    Initial Fix Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Thanks for correcting me on my phrasing
     
  23. wsquare

    wsquare Filing Flight Plan

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    There may have also been some wake vortex effect from the Zenith in front of him. It appears that he was quite close to the Zenith. And possibly at a comparable or slightly lower altitude from where the Zenith was when it passed the same location earlier in it's approach. Wake vortex can be a factor, even from fairly light aircraft, especially if the trailing aircraft is in a slow flight regime with high angle of attack. Just another idea.
     
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  24. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard En-Route

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    Drag Races? 1C582E92-8BE6-4ABA-B3D6-7E74CC7FF61D.jpeg
     
  25. danhagan

    danhagan En-Route

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    A lot of people go just to see an accident ... now you'll have cross-dressed drivers not wearing fire suits:eek::confused:
     
  26. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Pattern Altitude

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    From comments...

    UPDATE: There was a fatal stall spin accident Fri evening of a Cessna 140 while turning base to final and 's' turning to stay behind traffic ahead. This was NOT during a 'STOL Drag' event. Jb.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
  27. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Pattern Altitude

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    impressive aircraft control
     
  28. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    I saw the video too, he wasn't doing S-turns, there was a crosswind and they were coming in slipped to keep the nose aligned with the strip. He got too slow behind the Zenith and when the right wing let go he made the fatal instinctive error of cranking in left aileron which further increases the right wing angle of attack and there's no fixing it after that. Only takes a second and it's been happening to seasoned pilots for more than a hundred years. RIP

    In my opinion this operating on the edge for the purpose of making a short landing has always been a part of flying skills but I'm not sure if it's appropriate in a competition environment with the adrenaline and desire to "win" aspect coupled with a crowd of expecting fans. Just seems to have a "hey ya'll watch this" flavor to it that isn't appropriate for aviation. I know, I'm old school, grew up taught to be super wary and cautious, to have a great respect and fear for what it was all about and what could potentially happen to you.
     
  29. Warmi

    Warmi Line Up and Wait

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    This keeps happening because that’s what we do every time when a wing drops in cruise due to turbulence … we pick it up with opposite aileron …and we do it hundreds of times over and over again.
    Compare that to typical , once in a blue moon, slow flight training when people will actually remember to use the rudder to counter any wing dropping tendencies …
     
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  30. Silvaire

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    That's why I said "instinctive" It's just a muscle memory reaction like playing a guitar, you can't help it. The only solution, that we have tried and proved over the last 100 years, is don't get yourself there. Always keep that margin, be aware of the conditions. Being in a competition does not help, the whole situation seems rushed and not well thought out.
     
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  31. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I see a simple stall and one wing letting go. The key is that you can see a very high pitch angle just seconds before wing drops. No maneuvering or slip at the time. Tried to drop the nose but just wasn't enough to add energy to the flight. Still in a pre-stall even with the pitch angle change. Just way too slow, too low. There wasn't even much of a spin developed. Just a stall, wing drop, half turn. Sorry for the family, the pilot. . . but these things just beg for accidents to happen. On YouTube. It's not about skill, but judgment. A Cessna 140 just isn't going to be a good plane for this.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
  32. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Let’s be honest, STOL competitions are nothing more than dick measuring events. They’re just pointless imho.

    “Oh cool you landed in 30ft, let me try to land in 20ft.”

    Just senseless. :(
     
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  33. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    So, you are saying you suck at it. :D:D
     
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  34. Pugs

    Pugs Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    You could say that about all competition but that same competitive environment often inspires us and trains us to perform better than we would simply going out and doing whatever the activity is alone.

    I enjoy plinking in the backyard but it takes a smallbore sillhouette rifle match to make me concentrate and perform at my best.
     
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  35. Silvaire

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    I used to enjoy the old STOL events they held at Valdez (usually with a 30-40 kt headwind) but it has sort of morphed into this Red-Bull-like uber-sports event with highly specialized , high powered ultralight kitplanes. I'm just not sure if the participants have a complete grasp of what can happen from 50 or 60 feet in the air. It's not the same as sno-boarding or even moto-cross riding. Maybe it's more akin to wing-suit stunts. So far they have managed to avert catastrophe for the most part but that last Arkan-STOL event seemed pretty sketchy if you want my opinion.

    I'm all for freedom and people having fun but maybe they shouldn't have kids lined up along the strip as they do those hanging on the prop take-offs ya know? Steve Henry is a champion in this sport and there are YT videos where he came damn close to losing it on more than one occasion. You can tell there is a lot of adrenaline pumping.
     
  36. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

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    This is why I teach to recognize the situations were pilots tend to "F***" this up and start thinking "This is how pilots screw this up"..."we are not going to stall". ie. Emergencys, maneuvering below 1000ft. Downwind approaches and turns, etc.

    best line of this video...
    DFU.GIF

    In a later discussion with the pilot of this 205 he talked about his low approach to the runway and how fast he was. He said he had a friend killed in base to final turn, He was not going to make that mistake.

    Brian
    CFIIG/ASEL
     
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  37. Dana

    Dana En-Route

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    It's like any other engineering driven sport, sailing, auto racing, etc., they'll always pushing the limits. It's not a bad thing, sometimes improvements trickle down to the recreational pilot/sailor/driver. Yeah, it's riskier than flying a C-172 on a $100 hamburger run, but it's arguably a lot more fun for some people. They do have their accidents, but for the most part the low speeds and altitudes limit the injuries.

    It sounds like the crash that started this thread wasn't a participant but a spectator. A C-140 isn't the kind of plane you'd fly in an event like that.

    If the property owner isn't receiving money for hosting the event the recreational liability statutes every state has should protect him.
     
  38. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I’ve seen more accidents because people were afraid of stalling than actual stall accidents. I wonder if there’s a statistic on that somewhere.
     
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  39. Wagondriver

    Wagondriver Pre-takeoff checklist

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    He was a contestant.
     
  40. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How does being afraid to stall lead to an accident?