Martha Lunken has privileges revoked

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by X3 Skier, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    That’s literally a paraphrase of an ancient proverb... not something I just pulled out of my hat. Google it if you want the source.

    “Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry; But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold...”

    In the context it’s actually talking about something a lot more serious than a candy bar, too.
     
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  2. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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  3. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    With the proximity of the bridge to the CVG veils, I'm interested to see when exactly she turned off the transponder and turned it back on. Err.... Excuse me... "When it came loose"

    For all the anti-government big brother ADSB conspiracy talk... Busting the veil with your transponder turned off was always illegal before ADSB too.
     
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  4. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    As would I. But I'm not sure that will ever be released.

    Assuming she only turned it off for the extent of her stupid move, it wouldn't have busted the veil at all. Busting the veil is not a concern - presumably it didn't happen (assuming she, as alleged, disabled the ADS-B only when conducting the under bridge flight). If it was in the violation letter, that hasn't come out yet. I'll also note that ATC and the FAA generally would only tag aircraft and try to identify them if they presented a real and present danger to other air traffic. In this case, we don't have enough facts to determine whether there were just a rules violation or whether a clear danger was presented.

    I think the concern here is that A number of GA operators were concerned about use of ADS-B for surveillance and big brother stuff, and was led to believe that it wouldn't happen. While I am not a fan of minute surveillance and alerting of everything we do, I am also a realist that knows that if it can be done, it will be done. And it will be used for far more than the original intent. That's true at the Federal level, it's also true at the state and local level (facial recognition, for example). I believe there should be an open, honest, and public discussion about what will be done with the data collected and how it will be used.

    I do not, however, support what Martha did and believe that she should have received some sort of sanction. Without knowing all the details, however, I'm not in a position to opine on whether the punishment fits the crime in her case.
     
  5. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Not just under the veil; unless otherwise directed by ATC, it's illegal to turn off an operable transponder in ANY controlled airspace, i.e, class E and above, and some other specifically listed airspace as well.

    https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...94aebb9b&mc=true&node=se14.2.91_1215&rgn=div8
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  6. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    ...each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 shall operate the transponder,....

    So just do it outside the 2 year certification, and you can legally turn it off. :D
     
  7. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  8. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    If anyone thought Martha may have learned anything...

    She was on the PA at the Red Stewart Airshow in Waynesville, OH yesterday, not all too far from that bridge.

    She was wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the bridge and the words "So many bridges so little time."
     
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  9. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    Best ignore people like that, because attention is what they crave. She was an interesting aviation writer once; now she's just a huckster trying to turn her bad judgement in the air into profit on the ground.
     
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  10. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    Honestly from listening to her rambling, at times incoherently, I think she's showing definite signs of senior mental decline.
     
  11. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    So she’s running for POTUS in 2024?
     
  12. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    .

    If she really had mental decline she would be running in 1984.
     
  13. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I suspect Cubby Stewart will have a different PA person next year. :rolleyes:

    Cheers
     
  14. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    Hopefully whatever health issues prevented "Wild Bill" from returning this year are quickly resolved and he's back next year.

    Even ignoring the fact it was Martha, it was a definite loss not having him he's the life of the party.
     
  15. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Took instrument ground school from the better half, Ms Handshew.

    Cheers
     
  16. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    That will be sad if it's true. I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy (which she, of course, isn't).
     
  17. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That could be viewed as making fun of herself rather than an intention to re-offend.
     
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  18. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    Agreed, but the rambling, repeating, forgetting thoughts... All reminded me of my grandmother at that age right before her rapid decline.
     
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  19. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    Yes, it's always hard to see when it's a public figure. You can notice Agatha Christie's vocabulary (and ability to keep track of the plot) plummet in her last novels from about 1970 onward, and you can see the same thing in the vocabulary of a couple of former U.S. presidents from my adult lifetime, who drastically deteriorated during their time in office, becoming more and more repetitive with fewer and fewer words and reverting to pre-adolescent language and cognitive ability.

    Before I was born, the same thing happened with a 1950s Canadian Prime Minister, Louis St-Laurent (Uncle Louis), who could barely hold the thread when speaking in public by the end of his time in public office (or so I heard from my parents). Time is a brutal thug. :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
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  20. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz En-Route PoA Supporter

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    This has been my concern since hearing about that incident. Sort of classic loss of inhibition of impulses.
     
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  21. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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  22. Llewtrah381

    Llewtrah381 Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    OMG - did she really say hamberder and covfefe? Sad…she gone…ask Tim Apple.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  23. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Interesting article on this topic.

    https://neurosciencenews.com/linguistics-aging-19248/

    Another reason for the inability to get the right word. Not directly related to dementia according to the article if I understand it correctly.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
  24. flhrci

    flhrci Final Approach

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    Picture borrowed from Facebook from a fly-in at Red Stewart Airfield in Ohio.

    240736154_4793102874051375_954798630661039988_n.jpg
     
  25. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    Yep that's the pic I just didn't want to steal it straight off FB.
     
  26. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I don’t follow this, so not sure if her case is under appeal, but if it is she is stupid.
     
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  27. flhrci

    flhrci Final Approach

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    "borrowed" LOL
     
  28. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Bro do you even lift
    Let's see, 387 posts and I...

    1. Have no clue who she is.

    2. Don't particularly care.

    3. I'm assuming she is a drunk senior who wandered away from the VFW hall and commandeered an airplane.

    4. Not necessarily that I'd hit it, but I'm telling you, tough times...
     
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  29. Todd82

    Todd82 Line Up and Wait

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    1. Not a Flying magazine subscriber I see.
    3. You're not all that far off. But she THINKS she's a big deal.
    4. I think you've got to be rich and have an airport named after you before you can do that.
     
  30. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Funniest post today!

    1 & 2, me too. Had to look it up. A friend of mine described people like this as "famous for being famous". I guess that's fine, but see #2.
    I was going to assume drunk, too. Not to pile on a stereotype, but the history books aren't filled with stories of sober writers. I can't imagine the ones that won't get into the history books are any better.
    Re 4 - Your best defense here is that you saw the pic on a phone, and you can't quite see through the screen protector.
     
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  31. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

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    And then there is another Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, sad indeed :( . I think that they call it early onset.
     
  32. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    Now, now! I'm not a fan of PM Trudeau (fils) either, but arrogance isn't a symptom of early dementia, just a result of growing up in an environment of privilege and entitlement.
     
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  33. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    I'd bet that every one of our aviation idols has broken a rule. I can't join the mob on this one. Wearing the silly tee shirt is not a big deal in my eyes.
     
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  34. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    When I'm her age, I probably won't give a crap about a rule either. Maybe the FAA should add a 6'th hazardous attitude for being too old to care. I'll let the mob decide a clever descriptive name for it.
     
  35. Tools

    Tools Pre-takeoff checklist

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    ARAD....?
     
  36. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    In the pre-ADSB (Automatic Digital Snitch Box) era she would probably have gotten away with it, too. ADSB makes government surveillance easy.
     
  37. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    IIRC correctly, she was caught by ODOT Cameras on the bridge that are there to record loons on the bridge. This time it was a loon under the bridge.

    Cheers
     
  38. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    Right. And turning off her transponder to avoid detection was one of the offenses.
     
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  39. Half Fast

    Half Fast Final Approach

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    An act which she has bragged about doing before and wrote about in her book.
     
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  40. Rushie

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    And she was from a whole different generation anyway, one with a different mindset. She’s what, 80 now?
     
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