Malibu operating costs...

If I want pressurized and FIKI, I think it's pretty much the Malibu or 210. In that general operating cost range.

If I want pressurization and FIKI in a 6 seat plane I'd have a 340 or 421. Singles just don't have the spare horsepower I want for that kind of mission. I doubt the cost differential would be a killer. Hauling one or two and luggage, great Malibu or 210 mission. Start trying to fill the seats and haul the kitchen sink (and some ice), sorry, that takes 500+hp to do.
 
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Maybe its just me, but the only part of the Malibu I don't like the is the pilots seating. I felt like a pretzel trying to get in there. Then I had to tilt my seat back to clear my headset. The people in back have it much nicer, but I suspect EVERYONE wants the forward facing couch.

Yes... Over time though you learn how to get in easily and how to get out quickly. When you first do it it is tight. I'm 6'2" myself. My one complaint about the Malibu is the headroom. It is tight. You learn quickly to make sure your seatbelt lap portion is tight so you don't smack your head in turbulence :rofl:
 
Yes... Over time though you learn how to get in easily and how to get out quickly. When you first do it it is tight. I'm 6'2" myself. My one complaint about the Malibu is the headroom. It is tight. You learn quickly to make sure your seatbelt lap portion is tight so you don't smack your head in turbulence :rofl:

Not just Malibus I have to do that in and I'm just 6'0.:lol:
 
If I want pressurization and FIKI in a 6 seat plane I'd have a 340 or 421. Singles just don't have the spare horsepower I want for that kind of mission. I doubt the cost differential would be a killer. Hauling one or two and luggage, great Malibu or 210 mission. Start trying to fill the seats and haul the kitchen sink (and some ice), sorry, that takes 500+hp to do.


I'd love to be able to make a 421 work. Everytime I analyze it though the cost just doesn't make sense for the additional benefit. My next plane will be a turboprop single.
 
I'd love to be able to make a 421 work. Everytime I analyze it though the cost just doesn't make sense for the additional benefit. My next plane will be a turboprop single.

Sure, again, over 500hp. I would like a Malibu airframe and hang an Orenda on it, or better, a V-12 Audi TDI. It's hard to put a dollar value on having the horsepower to save your ass when everything is going wrong together.
 
Maybe its just me, but the only part of the Malibu I don't like the is the pilots seating. I felt like a pretzel trying to get in there. Then I had to tilt my seat back to clear my headset. The people in back have it much nicer, but I suspect EVERYONE wants the forward facing couch.

When I was shopping, go in and out of several versions of the PA46 several times. After you "get it down", it really is pretty simple to get in and out...

I will say that no one wants to ride up front unless they are pilots...or hardcore sight seers.
 
When I was shopping, go in and out of several versions of the PA46 several times. After you "get it down", it really is pretty simple to get in and out...

I will say that no one wants to ride up front unless they are pilots...or hardcore sight seers.

Funny you said that, the Piper sales guy is 6'5". I told him, "Let's see you get in that pilots seat". Sure enough he had the technique perfected, he slid right in there. I guess that is a pre-requisite to being hired to sell pipers. I looked like a goof, so I would clearly need practice.

I do have a well developed sixth sense for avoiding running into Cessna high wings. Not even one diamond shaped scar either!:)
 
Funny you said that, the Piper sales guy is 6'5". I told him, "Let's see you get in that pilots seat". Sure enough he had the technique perfected, he slid right in there. I guess that is a pre-requisite to being hired to sell pipers. I looked like a goof, so I would clearly need practice.
Yes...prerequisite for sure.

It is worse when the pilot goes first and the person who is struggling comes in last...that gets awkward...in a hurry...

I do have a well developed sixth sense for avoiding running into Cessna high wings. Not even one diamond shaped scar either!:)
Yet.It is only a matter of time...:yes:
 
If I want pressurization and FIKI in a 6 seat plane I'd have a 340 or 421. Singles just don't have the spare horsepower I want for that kind of mission. I doubt the cost differential would be a killer. Hauling one or two and luggage, great Malibu or 210 mission. Start trying to fill the seats and haul the kitchen sink (and some ice), sorry, that takes 500+hp to do.

Company PC12 would beg to differ.

Only civvy piston twin Id buy would be a Beech 18.

For the OPs mission, if he's smart he'll get a nice 210 or Lance/Glass or WLC1

Unless you are rocking a Pratt, Garett or merlin product, youre a joke as far as twins go
 
Company PC12 would beg to differ.

Only civvy piston twin Id buy would be a Beech 18.

For the OPs mission, if he's smart he'll get a nice 210 or Lance/Glass or WLC1

Unless you are rocking a Pratt, Garett or merlin product, youre a joke as far as twins go

Yeah yeah, $3.1MM turbine singles are just fine, I couldn't begin to afford one unless it was generating good revenue. If I needed to, I could pull off a 421 on a personal finance by working some extra. Like I said, 6 people and even light luggage with fuel to go 800 miles, and you need at least 500hp to do the job comfortably. These days that is either a twin or turbine unless you sport a radial.

I agree on the BE-18, probably my favorite plane to fly, especially on floats. That it burns MoGas is always a bonus, plus you can always make money with one. However if I wanted pressurization, regretfully it would not be an option.
There was one I almost bought years ago, a Tradewinds conversion with the Queen Air tail and Trigear. With the 985s it looked badassed.
 
Did anyone ever try hanging a turbo normalized IO-720 on a Malibu?
 
That sounds pretty good.

While adding weight, water cooling has some serious advantages, not to mention the fuel. It's really a shame the TSIOL-550 didn't work out. I never did get the full story why, but after a lot of Cessna 414 conversions, I don't see them around anymore. Word I got from mechanics was they were a load of problems, though I never got specifics. Word I got from owners was that a marginal useful load was cut even further, but I don't recall many maintenance cost horrors, so I suspect the mechanic complaints were about access to fasteners and general PITA to work on more so than rate of failure, but not sure. :dunno:
 
Hi everyone, I have a similar question to the OP. I am interested in purchasing a Piper Malibu in the very distant future (once my income goes up) and wanted some insight as to how you all went about financing the purchase. How much of a loan did you need to take out and how much did you put down on the purchase initially? Obviously these numbers will vary according to income levels, but was curious 'what it takes' so to speak to purchase a plane of this caliber. Thank you for your time.
 
Contact Piper Financial Services. They'll answer your questions, even if a purchase is far in the future.

Then again, I don't know your time horizon. In 10yrs it could all be different. Certainly the rates will be!
 
Hi everyone, I have a similar question to the OP. I am interested in purchasing a Piper Malibu in the very distant future (once my income goes up) and wanted some insight as to how you all went about financing the purchase. How much of a loan did you need to take out and how much did you put down on the purchase initially? Obviously these numbers will vary according to income levels, but was curious 'what it takes' so to speak to purchase a plane of this caliber. Thank you for your time.

New or used?

New Mirage is about 1.25ish.

A 2000 Mirage with about 1600 hours is about 500.

An older first quality Malibu w relatively low time is about 325 plus your favorite avionics upgrade. These are currently hot and the market price is rising because the the 16gph lop running continentals. 310HP can be overcome with the 550 upgrade.

I currently have one of each and am selling the Malibu because I plan to Jet Prop the Mirage at TBO.

There are companies that will facilitate financing but like all loans they favor those that do not need them. Expect operating costs to run about $350hr so having the plane inside a business with good accounting advice will defray some cost.
 
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Hi everyone, I have a similar question to the OP. I am interested in purchasing a Piper Malibu in the very distant future (once my income goes up) and wanted some insight as to how you all went about financing the purchase. How much of a loan did you need to take out and how much did you put down on the purchase initially? Obviously these numbers will vary according to income levels, but was curious 'what it takes' so to speak to purchase a plane of this caliber. Thank you for your time.

The people I know that bought Malibu's didn't finance them. They just bought them.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone, that is the info I was looking for. Cheers
 
I am progressing towards a turboprop one step at a time...for the most part, yes...they are the same...

So far I have owned and flown a
172SP---300 hours
182T--850 hours
PA46 Matrix--??? 200 hours and counting

Next step up I hope to get an Epic or a TBM700/850. If I can keep my health and my business on track, it looks possible...

I wanted a Matrix instead of an older Malibu for reliability. I have Matrix serial number #1. It has been very reliable. I may move into pressurization afer I get about 500 or so hours on this airframe...then on to the turboprop...but honestly
Yep. I should have mentioned this yesterday. If you are looking into the PA46 airframe, it will be the best $250.00 you have ever spent.

Hey KEVIN: Since you own a Matrix wanted to get your opinion about ownership experience. I’m trying to decide between a matrix versus a mirage. Moneywise I can afford the Mirage and yearly expense I have accounted for 70,000 for the loan and operating costs. Trying to find out how your matrix ownership experience has been so far. Do you wish you had opted for a mirage instead.

Just wanted to get some thoughts from owners or people who have some decent times decent times in these planes.
 
@andrewholmes @aholmes100 First things first. If you are event thinking about a PA46...Join MMOPA. It'll be the best money you spend now or ever as far as owning or shopping for a PA46 go...

I bought the Matrix as a stepping stone towards a turboprop...I have not regretted it but my decision is based on incrementally moving up. I am still very happy with the plane and grin from ear to ear every time I pass through 180 kts of ground speed...:D:D.

I have had two or three eye-watering items come up at the shop but I have never come close to spending 70K per year.

If you can afford a Mirage then I'd suggest opting or at least considering for an older upgraded Meridian. Cutter has a one frequently that are mad upgraded and just over 1M. There are a few that are sub 1M on controller but ask questions on MMOPA if you go the older Meridian route.
 
As a guy that owned and operated an older Meridian for seven years, I can tell you that it is an amazing airplane and incredibly efficient to own and operate.

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
 
As a guy that owned and operated an older Meridian for seven years, I can tell you that it is an amazing airplane and incredibly efficient to own and operate.

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY

This is helpful, but some actual operating and maintenance cost data would be even more so. I'm trying to compare a Meridian against upgrading from the Aztec to a pressurized Cessna twin. I'm comfortable with what the delta will be for the piston twin, but finding it difficult to nail down real world experience with the turbine.
 
@andrewholmes @aholmes100 First things first. If you are event thinking about a PA46...Join MMOPA. It'll be the best money you spend now or ever as far as owning or shopping for a PA46 go...

I bought the Matrix as a stepping stone towards a turboprop...I have not regretted it but my decision is based on incrementally moving up. I am still very happy with the plane and grin from ear to ear every time I pass through 180 kts of ground speed...:D:D.

I have had two or three eye-watering items come up at the shop but I have never come close to spending 70K per year.

If you can afford a Mirage then I'd suggest opting or at least considering for an older upgraded Meridian. Cutter has a one frequently that are mad upgraded and just over 1M. There are a few that are sub 1M on controller but ask questions on MMOPA if you go the older Meridian route.

Kelvin, I like your approach and plan.

Referencing the "eye-watering items", where these engine/prop related or airframe related?
 
Maintenance on airplanes, especially turbo charged airplanes with lots of systems is high. There are lots of things to go wrong. Its also unpredictable. And it also depends on how you fly the plane. Keep it at 65% power except for takeoffs and it will last longer. Run it at max, and its going to need a LOT more maintenance. As a general guide, maintenance is the same per hour as fuel per hour.
 
I apologize for disappearing, but it’s been a busy couple of days.

It has been several years since I owned the Meridian, but I will take a look at my records and see what I can find to give better operating cost indications. Anecdotely, the Meridian was an incredibly efficient airplane to own and you couldn’t come close to the performance for anywhere near the money.

Prior to buying the Meridian, I was contemplating whether I wanted to get a Mirage or a Meridian. As part of my research, I went to Sun Aviation to talk to the people who maintain the airplanes. When I was discussing the cost of the overhaul on the engine, one of the mechanics that I spoke to said that I would have two major overhauls and probably a top overhaul before I even had my Hot Section Inspection on the Meridian! Hence, the hourly cost of engine maintence was very close.

I agree that MMOPA is a great resource for anyone that wants to know about the differences between all of the PA46 airframes. They are all fantastic for the missions that they do. Just be aware that everyone on there is a passionate advocate for their airplane and are absolutely convinced that the model that they bought is the best one out there!!!

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
 
I realize you're joking with this, but there's a point. One thing that aviation should teach all of us is that there is always someone with more money than you.

I could operate a Lancair 360 and not think twice about any costs that come up with it, so I'd never have to ask. The 310 requires thought, but mostly I don't have to ask. I could probably swing operating a 340/414, but that would require even more careful planning, a lot of owner MX (more than I do now), and a certain amount of luck, so I should ask. I could no way afford a turboprop, and even a "cheap" Lear, so I'd have to ask. All the smart people who come into the Twin Cessna forums ask about costs before buying.

Regarding the Malibu, everyone I've talked to who's owned them for a while has said they aren't economical at all from a MX perspective. Fuel, yes, economical, but that's where it ends. If you go in with a couple of partners and the plane is going to be flown several hundred hours per year, though, then I would suspect that you could get the costs to be a lot more reasonable. Doing your own research and owner MX where applicable will help keep costs down. I can't see you operating one for under $300/hr and would expect closer to $400 or more.

If I upgraded to something with turbos/pressurization, I would likely want to have at least one partner.

:D
 
I apologize for disappearing, but it’s been a busy couple of days.

It has been several years since I owned the Meridian, but I will take a look at my records and see what I can find to give better operating cost indications. Anecdotely, the Meridian was an incredibly efficient airplane to own and you couldn’t come close to the performance for anywhere near the money.

Prior to buying the Meridian, I was contemplating whether I wanted to get a Mirage or a Meridian. As part of my research, I went to Sun Aviation to talk to the people who maintain the airplanes. When I was discussing the cost of the overhaul on the engine, one of the mechanics that I spoke to said that I would have two major overhauls and probably a top overhaul before I even had my Hot Section Inspection on the Meridian! Hence, the hourly cost of engine maintence was very close.

I agree that MMOPA is a great resource for anyone that wants to know about the differences between all of the PA46 airframes. They are all fantastic for the missions that they do. Just be aware that everyone on there is a passionate advocate for their airplane and are absolutely convinced that the model that they bought is the best one out there!!!

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
So if you had it to do over, would you still trade the Meridian for the Eclipse? Why or why not?
 
Hey,Ken!

Long time, buddy. We need to connect soon.

Another good friend of mine asked me about the Meridian about three years ago, as he was looking at upgrading from his Cirrus. I told him then that if I had it to do over again, as much as I loved my Meridian, I would skip it and go straight to the Eclipse! He did his own due diligence and has been a deliriously happy Eclipse owner since.

Without question, the Eclipse is the perfect airplane for me. It does everything the Meridian does but better and faster. Despite the small cabin, it fits the whole family, the dog and some bags very comfortably. It is smoother in rough air and we quickly get above almost all of the weather, so we only have to worry about climbing and descending.

Although it is more expensive to operate in total, the variable costs of operation are about the same as the Meridian, except for the additional engine. On short trips, the Meridian was more efficient. However, despite having two engines, the fuel burn for trips over 600 miles is actually equal to or lower than it was on the Meridian and gets much lower for longer trips. Believe it or not, the average annual maintenance has been less expensive for me over the course of my five years of ownership than the Meridian was over the 7 years that I owned it.

I keep running numbers for a replacement for the Eclipse and I just cannot figure out why I should spend a fair amount more money for marginal performance increases. In my opinion, the Eclipse is the best kept secret in aviation!

Does that answer the question?

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
 
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