Low cost airlines = bad idea

Acrodustertoo

Acrodustertoo

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Buford T. Justice
with public decency on a rapid decline and manners being thrown right out the window years ago. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you provide dirt cheap flights that cost as much as their bar tab the night before you will get this and will happen more and more with how horrible people act in public. No class passengers give you zero class service airlines.

Case in point:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21194...-plane-as-passengers-fear-plane-brought-down/

 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I think you missed where I included the entire world. No biggie.
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Pure sarcasm on my point. Ryan air is well known for some of their stunts already. Wouldn't even put in flight fights past them if they can figure out how to charge for it.

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Well, you could make rules requiring a minimum amount of space per passenger and a minimum seat size. As well as stipulate how many hours would require meal service and determine what times flights should depart, etc. etc. etc. But then that would be called REGULATION and egad we wouldn't want that would we ?

The tarmac rule was getting close to that - telling a company how to run its own business via regulation. You can't have it both ways folks - you can either have the wild west like we have now or you can bring back regulation and pay more for a defined product.

Most like paying less and taking their chances with what kind of a passenger experience they will have/endure - Spirit airlines is a great example. That's fine just don't whine about it after the fact. That's all I ask
 
You misunderstand what airline deregulation was. It wasn't to tell the airlines they could do whatever they wanted, it was to remove the government-imposed restrictions on what routes each carrier could fly.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
with public decency on a rapid decline and manners being thrown right out the window years ago. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you provide dirt cheap flights that cost as much as their bar tab the night before you will get this and will happen more and more with how horrible people act in public. No class passengers give you zero class service airlines.

Case in point:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21194...-plane-as-passengers-fear-plane-brought-down/

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If you don't like it, don't fly low cost airlines. It's pretty simple really. Free market decides what they are willing to accept, and they vote with their wallets. Not sure what regulation would do aside from drive prices up so that those with lower income wouldn't be able to travel by air. I've seen plenty of people in business/first class with poor manners as well, so higher-cost airlines won't solve the problem.

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Art VanDelay said:
Well, you could make rules requiring a minimum amount of space per passenger and a minimum seat size. As well as stipulate how many hours would require meal service and determine what times flights should depart, etc. etc. etc. But then that would be called REGULATION and egad we wouldn't want that would we ?

The tarmac rule was getting close to that - telling a company how to run its own business via regulation. You can't have it both ways folks - you can either have the wild west like we have now or you can bring back regulation and pay more for a defined product.

Most like paying less and taking their chances with what kind of a passenger experience they will have/endure - Spirit airlines is a great example. That's fine just don't whine about it after the fact. That's all I ask
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Or apparently you could just charge more because rich people are better behaved. :rolleyes:
 
Art VanDelay said:
Well, you could make rules requiring a minimum amount of space per passenger and a minimum seat size. As well as stipulate how many hours would require meal service and determine what times flights should depart, etc. etc. etc. But then that would be called REGULATION and egad we wouldn't want that would we ?

The tarmac rule was getting close to that - telling a company how to run its own business via regulation. You can't have it both ways folks - you can either have the wild west like we have now or you can bring back regulation and pay more for a defined product.

Most like paying less and taking their chances with what kind of a passenger experience they will have/endure - Spirit airlines is a great example. That's fine just don't whine about it after the fact. That's all I ask
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There never was regulation on any of those things. Any airline could offer them if they decided they weren't going for the lowest common denominator passenger list.

My wife got talked into flying Spirit from DEN to LAS for her convention by cheap peers. By the time the nickel and diming stopped, she could have at least had cattle car service on F9 or similar and she said "not doing that again" from a text message on the way out there. I'd have taken her out in the 182 but it was in annual that week. But they got her there and back.

Ironically a friend who decided IT was killing him after a bad divorce and got into bus driving and now drives a city bus in Vegas.

After reading his stories it's pretty clear why low cost airlines have "events" like the fight above. He's more psychologist than bus driver (and it suits his personality well) and the stories are hilarious. His regular customer who brings him hot wings for some strange reason, also is completely convinced of the whole chemtrail thjng.

And Vegas busses get the joy of loading up way more than their fair share of completely hammered riders... LOL. The stories are great when you mix the mental health issues, alcohol, and drugs.

They're even "highly regulated" and give people plenty of room. Hahaha. He has the distinct advantage over airline crews that he can just bellow "Get the **** off the bus, NOW!" That usually takes care of whatever stupidity is happening in the back. :)

jordane93 said:
This is why I only fly first class so I don't have to deal with the peasants.:rolleyes::)
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Hush. You have a far better seat than first class. :)
 
denverpilot said:
There never was regulation on any of those things. Any airline could offer them if they decided they weren't going for the lowest common denominator passenger list.

My wife got talked into flying Spirit from DEN to LAS for her convention by cheap peers. By the time the nickel and diming stopped, she could have at least had cattle car service on F9 or similar and she said "not doing that again" from a text message on the way out there. I'd have taken her out in the 182 but it was in annual that week. But they got her there and back.
:)
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Actually the CAB did coordinate and approve departure times and destinations. The other items came by way of the airlines swimming in money and not needing to pack people in like cattle.
 
Good lord! This thread and the title was made with just a hint of humor.

It Is For Entertainment Purposes Only!

I make a thread that links to a funny article with an accompanying video and out comes all the sofa psychologists with no sense of humor. Take a deep breath and take a drink of dirt soda. All is well. This is not a sociological experiment or political statement. Just a funny article/video and commentary.
 
SoonerAviator said:
If you don't like it, don't fly low cost airlines. It's pretty simple really. Free market decides what they are willing to accept, and they vote with their wallets. Not sure what regulation would do aside from drive prices up so that those with lower income wouldn't be able to travel by air. I've seen plenty of people in business/first class with poor manners as well, so higher-cost airlines won't solve the problem.
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Looks like avoiding low cost airlines won't solve the problem. BA is going to reconfigure its 777 fleet from nine across to ten across rows.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ER-squeeze-extra-passengers-economy-777s.html

As an aside, recently I flew on a SWA next gen 737. It had their latest cabin configuration, the new lightweight seats that look about as sturdy as a lawn chair (I know, they're g load certified).

The seat pitch was nuts. My knees were crammed into the back of the seat ahead. The new seats allow them to put in three more rows.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Actually the CAB did coordinate and approve departure times and destinations. The other items came by way of the airlines swimming in money and not needing to pack people in like cattle.
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A select few were awash in cash. There were plenty more that were a quarter or two away from disaster at all times.

Rose colored glasses looking into the past won't change it anyway.

Name one U.S. Flag airline willing to take a risk on something different than cattle car service, or anything business decision related for that matter?

There's no innovation in the sector. Maybe some -- in choice of aircraft in going with 787 -- but that's really a Boeing thing, more than an airline thing... and the Japanese bought the first ones.

But name one thing one of these companies has done that sent the message they wanted to delight their customers, and doing it ran any significant business risk to attempt it.

Southwest maybe, with "bags fly free", but they knew when they started that, that they had a few years left of fuel hedging to ride out a slow price increase and some time to see how heavy the aircraft averaged out to be / get good fuel burn numbers, without triggering bankruptcy.

It's a tough biz. Not picking on them, I don't have any answers for them, but repeating the same stuff kinda just leads to confining their thought process to solid mediocrity as far as risk-taking goes.

I'll be "up shopping" my one trip this year that I can't/won't risk on doing in the 182 due to time of year and weather and a tight schedule after last year's "moron patrol" flight home with basketball boy whining that he was in a center seat and hitting on the FA and playing his headphones at a level they could be heard three rows away while taking up half of my seat, and his assumption that he needed four rounds of snacks and drinks during a 2:20 flight.

I'm pretty sure if I had to listen to or put up with him any longer than that, I'd be in one of those videos beating his dumb ***.

We'll see which airline can do it. I won't be shopping bottom fare price. I only need to make that mistake once to ruin the trip home from a lovely vacation. Dumb on my part.
 
3393RP said:
(SWA) The seat pitch was nuts. My knees were crammed into the back of the seat ahead. The new seats allow them to put in three more rows.
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Only one more row.

They went from 137 seats to 143 seats on the B737-700. That's just one row of six seats. They also added the longer B737-800 to the fleet which may be what you were on. I don't believe they ever operated the B737-800 with the older seats so no way to know how many additional rows the slimline seats would have netted.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Good lord! This thread and the title was made with just a hint of humor.

It Is For Entertainment Purposes Only!

I make a thread that links to a funny article with an accompanying video and out comes all the sofa psychologists with no sense of humor. Take a deep breath and take a drink of dirt soda. All is well. This is not a sociological experiment or political statement. Just a funny article/video and commentary.
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So, what's any of that have to do with it? It's POA man! :goofy:
 
There's usually the choice of upgrading to business or first, if you don't mind paying more, only usually it's a lot more. My traveling companions this summer were thinking of upgrading to business from coach. I told them go ahead, but I'm not paying a couple thousand extra on a thousand dollar ticket. I'll sit in coach for 9 hours then 11 hours. They ultimately decided to stick to coach too.

As far as the rich being better behaved, some are, some aren't, just like the poor.
 
Larry in TN said:
Only one more row.

They went from 137 seats to 143 seats on the B737-700. That's just one row of six seats. They also added the longer B737-800 to the fleet which may be what you were on. I don't believe they ever operated the B737-800 with the older seats so no way to know how many additional rows the slimline seats would have netted.
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Thanks for the clarification. I misremembered what I read in AW&ST.
 
Everskyward said:
My traveling companions this summer were thinking of upgrading to business from coach. I told them go ahead, but I'm not paying a couple thousand extra on a thousand dollar ticket. I'll sit in coach for 9 hours then 11 hours. They ultimately decided to stick to coach too.

As far as the rich being better behaved, some are, some aren't, just like the poor.
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Agreed on that last part. Drunk asses cross income boundaries.

I bet your traveling companions weren't as skinny as you, and maybe taller? I can (barely) live with the 350 lb'ers rolls of fat coming across the stupid armrest to touch my not small but-at-least-it-still-fits-in-the-width-of-the-seat belly, as much as I really don't want their flesh pressed against me for hours...

And touching shoulders with anyone pretty much unless they're female...

But it's the folding of the legs and the lower back that can't take the short distance to the seat in front of me, with only a few inches if you shove your back flat into the seat. I don't fold well. :)
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Take a deep breath and take a drink of dirt soda.
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One thing I have learned long ago, is you generally cannot stop people from talking! Especially online. Just gotta sit back and see what happens to your thread - once you start it, no telling where it's going!
Dirt Soda. It's a new one on me. Not readily googleable.
 
denverpilot said:
I bet your traveling companions weren't as skinny as you, and maybe taller?
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Nah, one was a female, smaller than me, and her husband who is probably an FAA standard male. Definitely not tall.
 
denverpilot said:
Agreed on that last part. Drunk asses cross income boundaries.
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Back in April my wife and I went to Oahu on Delta. We used FF miles and flew first class. The outbound aircraft had those big compartment kinda letdown seats, which were way cool. The return flight was just a standard configuration.

But regarding drunk asses...early on the return flight I noticed a guy two rows in front of us was calling the FA for refills every 30 minutes or so. As the flight progressed he got louder, after 5 1/2 hours he had downed at least 8 or 10 drinks. As Dr. C has said many times, that sort of tolerance indicates an experienced drunk.

He was staggering to the toilet, making loud comments, etc. About 45 minutes from LA, I heard the FA tell him no more drinks. We crossed the coast around Burbank, and just about then this nitwit left his seat and stumbled to the toilet. The FA was stuck between following rules and causing a scene, so she let him go.

When we landed our gate was occupied so we were stopped on a taxiway about a mile from the terminal. Bright boy started complaining, said he needed to use the toilet. The FA called the captain, he said OK. We sat on the taxiway for 30 minutes, so he started talking loudly about how the airline sucked, the service sucked, he had paid for first class, etc. Then he started dropping f bombs.

Finally a guy across the aisle said something like "You need to shut up or there are going to be extremely negative consequences for you". The drunk mumbled and finally shut up.

When we got to the gate he refused to deplane until a supervisor came on board to hear his complaints. The FA told him to sit right there, she would call for one. When we deplaned he was still sitting there.

Idiot.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
One thing I have learned long ago, is you generally cannot stop people from talking! Especially online. Just gotta sit back and see what happens to your thread - once you start it, no telling where it's going!
Dirt Soda. It's a new one on me. Not readily googleable.
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Stupid autocorrect ! Was supposed to be DIET soda. Oh well.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
All part of the Walmartization of America (and the world).
"Cheaper, cheaper, cheaper is all that matters"
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This is the truth. It seems that nothing matters but price.

I am a tool nut. I have collected some of the finest tools made for measuring, leveling, drilling, tapping etc etc.
Tools are not cheap but you pick one up here or there and after many years you have a great set of tools.
Starrett, Brown and Sharpe,bUnion Tool and P.E.C are all makers of great tools but they are not cheap.m
I don't have to ever buy another set of drill bits, taps, reamers, calipers, micrometers, wrenches etcetc.

Most people I run into only see the price, they never factor the quality, the accuracy, the repeatability , or their safety. They would rather buy another angle grinder every month because it is cheap instead of just buying a Metabo and never have to worry about it for the next ten years.
 
Everskyward said:
Nah, one was a female, smaller than me, and her husband who is probably an FAA standard male. Definitely not tall.
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Fascinating. My discomfort is because I'm 5' 11" and only have a 31" inseam. I just don't fit the seats.

Best seats ever in coach for me were whatever TWA used in their 727s. Most comfortable flight ever. First class in the 72 was even better. :)
 
Acrodustertoo said:
with public decency on a rapid decline and manners being thrown right out the window years ago. We have no one to blame but ourselves. When you provide dirt cheap flights that cost as much as their bar tab the night before you will get this and will happen more and more with how horrible people act in public. No class passengers give you zero class service airlines.
Click to expand...

Wanna talk public decency? Why can't anyone hold the gawdd@mn camera phone in landscape rather than portrait format when filming? Fix that problem, then we can begin to deal with other important issues, like people fighting over Black Friday high-def TVs.
 
Brad Z said:
Wanna talk public decency? Why can't anyone hold the gawdd@mn camera phone in landscape rather than portrait format when filming? Fix that problem, then we can begin to deal with other important issues, like people fighting over Black Friday high-def TVs.
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They don't fight over the television sets, they are fighting over five dollar vegetable steamers!

Merry Christmas!
 
Brad Z said:
Wanna talk public decency? Why can't anyone hold the gawdd@mn camera phone in landscape rather than portrait format when filming? Fix that problem, then we can begin to deal with other important issues, like people fighting over Black Friday high-def TVs.
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Issues? That assumes facts not in evidence. My wife and I very much look forward to the black friday fight videos. It's what makes the holiday season memorable anymore. Sure as hell ain't for the insufferably bland turkey and the godless material consumption.
 
rtk11 said:
There should be more civility in such situations. Like this. Much more organized.

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I agree. You used to be able to have a nice fist fight and then buy each other a beer afterward. Problem solved and usually a friendship was begun. Now it is all a bunch of fluff, talk it out, voice your anger on Twitter, unfriend them on faceplace or send them a real cute nasty email.

There are times an situations where someone needs to be strapped in a chair and be punched in the face. We as society need to take control and start straitening these clowns out. You know who they are, the whole in the movie theater talking on his phone, the ahole doing five under in the left lane, the aholes at the restaurant whose kids are running around yelling and being little brats while mommy and daddy(if still around) sit there staring into their Facebook viewing devices.
We have this sweet system where violent and sexual predators have to tell you where they live. We can get their address in the website! We are supposed to drag them out of their home and string them up on a light pole and leave their corpse to rot as a sign to the others. But nobody want to put down their phones long enough to do it, they would rather just wait for something to happen so they can ***** about it on twittspace.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Issues? That assumes facts not in evidence. My wife and I very much look forward to the black friday fight videos. It's what makes the holiday season memorable anymore. Sure as hell ain't for the insufferably bland turkey and the godless material consumption.
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Me too. I love the news the day after when they show all the morons fighting over useless Chinese junk. It is almost a holiday tradition in my family.
 
Running an airline is like running a greengrocer. They are both selling a commodity. Worse still, they are selling a perishable commodity, which in the case of the airline biz has an absolute and irrevocable best before date.

Markets that still have some vestige of regulations that serve as a barrier to competition (think Canada, which is about to bring in an airline passenger "bill of rights" that should further discourage competition and allow incumbents to raise already high fares) or still have outright state ownership by a sufficiently wealthy nation that subsidises (such as Emirates and Etihad) get to keep (some) aspects of the good ol' days.

The commoditizing of the mainline air carriers has opened the door to some alternatives such as Boutique Air and of course the "time share" jet services for those willing to pay the price for more privacy, more space, more convenience (and less chance of rowdy stranger flightmates) - like one used to pay for and get back when TransWorld Airlines was flying Constellations. ;)
 
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Acrodustertoo said:
...they would rather just wait for something to happen so they can ***** about it on twittspace.
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I believe you meant to write: "they would rather just wait for something to happen so they can video it in portrait orientation..."
 
GRG55 said:
I believe you meant to write: "they would rather just wait for something to happen so they can video it in portrait orientation..."
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That is spot on. It is truely a sad state of affairs right now that our young generation now has developed an almost instinctual motion to reach for their phone instead of helping their fellow man.
 
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