Lost Communication: TOWER'S Radio Out!

DrMack

Line Up and Wait
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DrMack
Here's a new one for me. After handoff from Ft Worth regional approach after establishing ILS for AFW 34L last night the AFW tower did not respond to my radio calls nor to another aircraft seeking visual approach on the same runway that I was hurtling toward. After an eternity and just 200' above minimums tower finally came back and I was cleared to land.

Before they came back on air I had already decided to go missed and return to regional approach if I didn't get the landing clearance before the MAP. My thinking was that my clearance limit (from regional approach) at that point was simply to track the ILS approach as published and it did not include landing. Was that the right decision? Or would a CTAF call on the AFW tower frequency have been sufficient to announce my intentions and then go ahead and land?

All the lost communication protocols I know seem to assume that the airplane radios are belly up, not ATC.
 
Out of curiosity, what time did this occur? Did you inquire with the controller why their was no response to your initial calls?
 
Are you shur that it was lost comm or were they just swapping out controllers? Anyway

I would have landed. Here is why---> Lost comm procedure for IFR you are expected to continue last assigned clearance and land at your ETA. You will never get a landing clearance when you are in lost comm. You were cleared for the ILS, so runway in sight, make shur is clear, look for light gun just in case clear runway as soon as possible and squawk 7600 in the middle of it all. I would assume that if tower really did lose comm that a quick phone call to approach would notify them and they would space traffic appropriately.

-If you would have went around not that big of a deal either. Back with appr/dep to tell them whats going on and then they take appropriate action.

Just my 2 cents :thumbsup:
 
If the flight is conducted under IFR and you were cleared for the approach, you should land.

From 91.129:

d) Communications failure. Each person who operates an aircraft in a Class D airspace area must maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that area.
(1) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under IFR, the pilot must comply with Sec. 91.185 of the part.
(2) If the aircraft radio fails in flight under VFR, the pilot in command may operate that aircraft and land if--
(i) Weather conditions are at or above basic VFR weather minimums;
(ii) Visual contact with the tower is maintained; and
(iii) A clearance to land is received.

My take is that a clearance for an approach under IFR is a clearance to land. Part 91.185 states:

IFR operations: Two-way radio communications failure.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each pilot who has two-way radio communications failure when operating under IFR shall comply with the rules of this section.
(b) VFR conditions. If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot shall continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable.
(c) IFR conditions. If the failure occurs in IFR conditions, or if paragraph (b) of this section cannot be complied with, each pilot shall continue the flight according to the following:
(1) Route.
(i) By the route assigned in the last ATC clearance received;
(ii) If being radar vectored, by the direct route from the point of radio failure to the fix, route, or airway specified in the vector clearance;
(iii) In the absence of an assigned route, by the route that ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance; or
(iv) In the absence of an assigned route or a route that ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance, by the route filed in the flight plan.
(2) Altitude. At the highest of the following altitudes or flight levels for the route segment being flown:
(i) The altitude or flight level assigned in the last ATC clearance received;
(ii) The minimum altitude (converted, if appropriate, to minimum flight level as prescribed in Sec. 91.121(c)) for IFR operations; or
(iii) The altitude or flight level ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance.
(3) Leave clearance limit.
(i) When the clearance limit is a fix from which an approach begins, commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if one has not been received, as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time en route.
(ii) If the clearance limit is not a fix from which an approach begins, leave the clearance limit at the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if none has been received, upon arrival over the clearance limit, and proceed to a fix from which an approach begins and commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time en route.

So, IFR with VMC conditions, 91.185 says to land as soon as practical, which in this case is immediately after reaching the approach minimums and meeting the requirements of 91.175 for continuing below the MDA or DH. IFR with IMC conditions, the clearance for the approach implies a continued clearance below the MDA or DH if the 91.175 criteria is met.
 
Are you shur that it was lost comm or were they just swapping out controllers? Anyway

I would have landed. Here is why---> Lost comm procedure for IFR you are expected to continue last assigned clearance and land at your ETA. You will never get a landing clearance when you are in lost comm. You were cleared for the ILS, so runway in sight, make shur is clear, look for light gun just in case clear runway as soon as possible and squawk 7600 in the middle of it all. I would assume that if tower really did lose comm that a quick phone call to approach would notify them and they would space traffic appropriately.

-If you would have went around not that big of a deal either. Back with appr/dep to tell them whats going on and then they take appropriate action.

Just my 2 cents :thumbsup:

+1

ben
 
Here's a new one for me. After handoff from Ft Worth regional approach after establishing ILS for AFW 34L last night the AFW tower did not respond to my radio calls nor to another aircraft seeking visual approach on the same runway that I was hurtling toward. After an eternity and just 200' above minimums tower finally came back and I was cleared to land.

Switch back to approach if you don't get an answer in a normal timeframe instead of waiting that long. Or try them on the ground frequency... I've done that before and got cleared to land on ground. :)
 
Lost comm in the goo? Runway appears in front of me with nobody on it? I land. And if there's someone on the runway, I'm probably landing on the taxiway next to it if that's unoccupied. Ain't no going back up into it if there's any question at all about whether I can talk to ATC.
 
The report came out not too long ago about the DCA controller falling asleep (approach thought he got locked out of the tower cab which has happened before). Absent being able to reach the controller on the radio or via land lines, they just treated it as an uncontrolled field and told people to contact the advisory frequency when they cleared them for the approach.
 
It was me, I'd just treat it like an uncontrolled field, make announcements, land. If there's a comm problem, no reason to exacerbate by continuing to fly around in and around it.
 
It was about 18:30 central and when the tower came back on the air they apologized for the outage due to a "radio issue". When they did come back I received clearance to land and the other guy in the pattern was sequenced behind me. Since it would have been my call anyway to go-around my decision to do so would have been no big deal but if it ever happens again I think I'll go with the majority opinion on this thread and just treat it as an uncontrolled airfield with a CTAF call stating my intentions. By doing so of course there would be no heed of any light gun activity from the assumed non-functioning tower.
 
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It was about 18:30 central and when the tower came back on the air they apologized for the outage due to a "radio issue". When they did come back I received clearance to land and the other guy in the pattern was sequenced behind me. Since it would have been my call anyway to go-around my decision to do so would have been no big deal but if it ever happens again I think I'll go with the majority opinion on this thread and just treat it as an uncontrolled airfield with a CTAF call stating my intentions. By doing so of course there would be no heed of any light gun activity from the assumed non-functioning tower.
Well you can assume its non-functioning and treat it like so, but if they started flashing red lights at you I would assume that you should pay attention. :nono: Just my 2 cents
 
Interesting question. If you break out at ILS minimums when the tower's been non-responsive, and they flash a red light at you, what are you going to do?

Me, I think I'm going to land anyway unless I see something on the runway, and work it out with them, rather than launch back into the soup.

I'd hope that no tower controller would ever do that.
 
Interesting question. If you break out at ILS minimums when the tower's been non-responsive, and they flash a red light at you, what are you going to do?

Me, I think I'm going to land anyway unless I see something on the runway, and work it out with them, rather than launch back into the soup.

I'd hope that no tower controller would ever do that.

Absent any apparent safety issue on the ground, I'd land and ask questions later. Fact is, I think it improbable that I would be searching for lights in the tower when I am in the transition from instrument approach in actual to landing.
 
Absent any apparent safety issue on the ground, I'd land and ask questions later. Fact is, I think it improbable that I would be searching for lights in the tower when I am in the transition from instrument approach in actual to landing.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not looking at the tower when I break out unless I'm circling maybe. The thing is, I knew my radio was working because I could hear the other traffic and they too were not getting a response from tower. For all I knew the controller was on the deck of the cab with a heart attack so I think the assumption of a non-functioning tower is reasonable and therefore I was not going to be looking for a light gun.
 
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