Looking for some suggestions

A

Aviator

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Looking for some direction on the best way to get pilots license and getting in to flying. I am half way through getting a private pilots license. It is getting pretty pricey for now and it is a pause. Since I love flying planes I want to get back in to it.

I really want to get in to flying. I am wondering if there is some kind of co-opp or a way to have some company to pay for me getting my pilots training. I have no problem working for a company flying a planes.

I have not done any research on the best ways in to getting in to aviation and start flying. This is my first time asking for some direction. Even if there some school that can help me get a student loan to continue my flying carrier and get my proper licensing to get in to flying any kind of plane. I am in Northern California my closest airport KSTS.

Any help is appreciated :)
 
Well if your running low on funds my best suggestion is save save save up the funds you need to do your training. Flying and then stopping when you run out of $$ and then repeating that process is going to be more expensive in the long run because you will forget so much. You really should try to fly at LEAST twice a week in training if you can. So I'd save the money and then go for it. I doubt anyone is going to put you through flight school in exchang for a job except for perhaps the military.

And by the way welcome to the board.
 
Yup, what Adam said. Try the United States Air Force if you want to learn to fly for free (well, there is that little bit about serving your time...)

Good luck.
 
Adam makes a very good point. You may also consider receiving your training in an accelerated format in a different part of the country where the costs are lower.

Scott
 
That makes sense... I have a great flight instructor and I know he told me that he had some kind of a loan though some school. He has all kinds of ratings and can fly jet air craft and can fly IFR. I do not want to ask him just yet because he might think that I do not want to fly with him and I know he want to make as much money on flying lessons as possible.

I have no problem saving money and I know I can make plenty of money to cover flying.

I was just wondering how do regular pilots for commercial air craft companies get their ratings to fly large jets. For EXAMPLE, if I wanted to fly 747 it would take A LOT OF MONEY to get all the ratings and I doubt that those pilots pay out of their own pockets. I do not necessarily want to fly 747 but it would be great to be a pilot flying small business jets.

Just wondering if there is a faster way to start flying now not ten years from now. I am new to whole aviation and just asking questions...
 
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When it comes to Airforce or Navy, I have great respect for those guys it is just not for me. Again I am just wondering what is everyone else is doing out there when it comes to getting their pilots license and what is takes to get in to career of flying for hire? ANY suggestions, opinions, advice is welcome. I just want to fly planes.
 
Aviator said:
I was just wondering how do regular pilots for commercial air craft companies get their ratings to fly large jets. For EXAMPLE, if I wanted to fly 747 it would take A LOT OF MONEY to get all the ratings and I doubt that those pilots pay out of their own pockets.
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Well, for the most part, there's a progression... It goes something like this:

Private ASEL -> Instrument -> Commercial ASEL -> Fly banners/skydivers/whatever -> CFI -> Teach new pilots -> Commercial AMEL -> Freight dog -> Regional FO -> Regional captain -> Major FO -> Major captain.

You can skip some of the steps, and you can rearrange some of them, but those first 250 hours (up until you get your commercial) you have to pay for yourself, there's not very many legal ways to build that time otherwise. Notable exceptions include glider tow pilots who are part of a non-profit glider club, and aircraft salesmen can theoretically do demo flights at 200 hours but in reality aircraft companies are looking for CFI's or better.

Good luck!
 
higher ratings, type ratings etc. are almost always paid for by employers. get the job and then get the rating.

as a matter of fact, that is how I am going to get my ATP in about 6 months.
 
There are many places with loans available... not the best or most preferred route, but if that's the only way you'd be able to afford to fly 2x/week until you get your PPL, it is an option - it is the option I exercised. Honestly, I wish that I'd had the money to just pay for it outright, but that wasn't an option for me. I have no regrets about taking out a loan to pay for my training, and really the only downside is that my pleasure flying now that I have my PPL is going to be slightly curttailed until I get it paid off. I got my loan through AOPA's connection with MBNA (now Bank of America), but there are other options out there. Is your flight school affiliated with an accredited college program? If so, you may qualify for a loan through Sallie Mae Financial or Key Bank.

I just became a pilot because I want to do it as a hobby, so maybe the loan wasn't the best thing I could have done, but it was necessary because I'm at a point now in my mid-late twenties where life (marriage, kids, etc.) is going to start coming at me fast, and I didn't want to live the next 15 - 20 years regretting not doing this when I had the time and resources to do so. I felt that if I didn't do it now, I wouldn't be able to until my kids were all grown. I tell you this because if you're wanting to become a professional pilot, then taking out a loan to get you through your CMEL quickly makes more sense, as the sooner you can get it done, the sooner you can be out there being paid to do what you love - just ask Teller :D.
 
Save up the funds to finish the license. I've seen way too many of my students fly for a while then stop, only to come back with more money and right back to the begining.
 
I appreciate everyones input. Saving money makes total sense. I have finished my solo flight and my business encountered some rough financial times at this time there I cannot continue flying. Would I have to start all the way from the beginning when get back in to finishing up my license? Is there a time frame that I have to complete all my hours?
 
The hours given in the regs are the minimum required to take the checkride, and they don't "expire". What determines you getting your instructor's endorsement to take the checkride is your level of proficiency - which absolutely does degrade over time.

You can expect that your next instructor will make you demonstrate proficiency before you're allowed to fly solo when you return to your lessons, and how long it takes to recover to your current level of proficiency can vary widely. If you can spare the time to cadge free rides and some stick time during the rides it might be helpful, but maybe not.

Definitely save up the money so you can complete the instruction without interruption - the process of relearning something after a delay is wasteful.
 
Hello, everyone. I'm new here, too. Been reading a few of the posts, and this one answers some of my questions that have been running around in my head.

Good to hear everyone talking about saving money. While I'm saving for the course, it will also give me extra time to study regs, concepts, etc.

Can anyone give an estimate on total cost I can expect to get my Private Pilot Certification? And does it include plane rental, fuel, those kinds of things. Looking for a ballpark at this stage; I realize it's probably a bit different in different areas.
 
Aviator said:
I appreciate everyones input. Saving money makes total sense. I have finished my solo flight and my business encountered some rough financial times at this time there I cannot continue flying. Would I have to start all the way from the beginning when get back in to finishing up my license? Is there a time frame that I have to complete all my hours?
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No - the hours you have logged are yours forever. You will, however, find that you have lost some progress simply from stagnation, and it will take some time to get back to where you were before you paused in your training.

There is no time frame for completion on hours and training. There is on the written exam - once you pass it, you have 2 years, I believe. Your solo endorsement is also time limited, as is your medical, but those can be renewed easily enough when you're ready to start over.

The questions you are asking suggest to me that, thus far, your instructor has not prepared you well for the rest of your training. If I am mistaken, I apologize in advance.

I would highly encourage you to start spending a lot more time online researching the requirements to complete your certification (we do not get licenses as aviators), and generally learning all you can from the wealth of freely available information online.
 
FogJuice said:
Can anyone give an estimate on total cost I can expect to get my Private Pilot Certification? And does it include plane rental, fuel, those kinds of things. Looking for a ballpark at this stage; I realize it's probably a bit different in different areas.
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Its more dependent on how quickly you learn, and how intensely you train. If you train 3-4 times a week, you will retain more and need less time overall. Training slower costs more, in general.

Figure on anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 for PPL. Try to save more - that way you have money left over to fly with after you complete. :)
 
FogJuice said:
Hello, everyone. I'm new here, too. Been reading a few of the posts, and this one answers some of my questions that have been running around in my head.

Good to hear everyone talking about saving money. While I'm saving for the course, it will also give me extra time to study regs, concepts, etc.

Can anyone give an estimate on total cost I can expect to get my Private Pilot Certification? And does it include plane rental, fuel, those kinds of things. Looking for a ballpark at this stage; I realize it's probably a bit different in different areas.
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FogJuice (what a user-name! You'll have to tell us about that sometime...)-

Dallas is a good place to learn to fly; there are a lot of good flight schools in the area, and quite a few very good independent flight instructors, as well.

If you are so-inclined, please PM me and I'll be glad to recommend some resources and options in the area.

Best,

/s/ Spike Cutler
 
Well, I still have a while yet. I've got ALMOST $0 saved of the money needed so far :p. I'm still VERY early at the planning stage of this. I like Rockwall Municipal (F46) because there's less to worry about with DFW. I like Addison (ADS) because it has a tower, has more traffic, and seems a bit more modern. But that will probably make the price go up. And there's that DFW tier above it.

But I'll remember to ask again once I have the money saved. In the meantime it's self taught ground school and flight sim computer programs. :blueplane:
 
You can go through the ground school stuff on the computer, and if you want you can even go through the instrument ground school stuff on the computer as well (no reason you can't start on that early, and those are cheap... I need to start on my instrument ground school stuff).

To get your license, figure 45-65 hours of plane rental time (I did mine a bit under 45 hours rental time, but I am told I am atypical). Of those, figure a bit over half of which will be dual received (so figure 25-35 hours instructor time). Plus the written, materials to study for the written and oral, headset, sectionals, kneeboard, pilot bag, etc. Of course, all the things from the headset on are long-term investments that you will keep and use for years to come.

I think $6-10k is reasonable, depending on what plane you rent and how much it costs in your area.

Towered airports are great training to fly out of, but it gets very annoying when you're practicing touch-and-gos and you have to wait in line to do them because of traffic. I am fortunate to fly out of a towered airport with very little traffic, so I both talk to tower and I can buzz off 10 touch-and-gos an hour.

I would also agree to save up the money ahead of time. The quicker you get through it, the less it will cost you and the faster you will get it. Plan for 2-3 flights per week, expect to get 1-2. It took me a hair over 6 months to get my license, including a period between Thanksgiving and New Years where I didn't fly at all, but I followed an aggressive schedule. I have a friend who's got about 30 hours now and he hasn't even had his first solo (mine was at 10.6 hours), because he's done it slowly and his training has been broken. If he had saved up and done it all at once, he'd be done by now, but he's taking the very, very slow route. He's also getting frustrated by it.

Sorry to say I don't have direct answers to the original poster, but if you can develop pilot friends, then opportunities to fly loggable hours will present themselves. The faster you build hours means the sooner you'll get yourself in the air and into that aviation job you want.

The best advice I can give: KEEP IT FUN! If you overfly (what that's defined as will vary from person to person) or treat it too much as work, you'll get burnt out and you won't enjoy it. The past few weeks I've been flying a ton at an aggressive schedule to get a few goals knocked out (mainly passing my check ride). Then this Sunday I just flew up to Buffalo to visit a friend. Now THAT was fun. :) Getting your private pilot is a job (a lot of work!), but keep it a fun one.
 
Set aside more money, and shop around... find a flying club, if you can. If you can find one with a deposit and dues that you can handle, you'll probably find some really good rates (most clubs bill for tach time, not Hobbs time), and an instructor-member who will most likely charge less that the average school for instruction time.

Like schools, not every club is best for every pilot, but it's generally a good way to slash training costs without compromising the quality of the training.
 
I got my PP-ASEL for about $3200 in 2003. I attribute that to one thing: I didn't have the money to fly at first, so I read books, I read stuff on AOPA's and FAA's web sites, I read internet forums and looked at the questions students were asking and the answers they were given. I absorbed every little bit of aviation knowledge I could find.

As a result, there were very few surprises when I got in the plane. I got my ticket in 42.6 hours.

I know that studying on the ground isn't nearly as fun as actually flying, but it will save you a TON of money. :yes:
 
Kent, you also must have had an amazing deal on a plane to rent, seeing as 172s tend to rent for $100+/hr these days. $3200 total is amazing.

I got mine in about 45 hours, and I figured a bit higher than that for everything, despite my discounted plane costs.
 
FogJuice said:
Can anyone give an estimate on total cost I can expect to get my Private Pilot Certification? And does it include plane rental, fuel, those kinds of things. Looking for a ballpark at this stage; I realize it's probably a bit different in different areas.
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I'd suggest budgeting $10K for everything from soup to nuts -- airplanes, instructors, ground school, examiner fees (medical, written, checkride), supplies (books, headset, kneeboard, and the obligatory nav bag which can be purchased a lot cheaper at Walton Aviation Logistics Market aka WalMart), etc. You may get it done in $6-7K, in which case you can put the rest towards experience-building or even starting your instrument rating, but by budgeting that much up front, you won't get halfway through and find you're running out.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Kent, you also must have had an amazing deal on a plane to rent, seeing as 172s tend to rent for $100+/hr these days. $3200 total is amazing.
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Gack! That should be $3200 for the plane, $3900 total. It was $69/hr for a 172N. The first "temporary fuel surcharge" showed up when I was just about done. :(

FWIW, the same plane is still there for rent at the same rate, but the fuel surcharge is up to something like $19.50/hr.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
You can go through the ground school stuff on the computer, and if you want you can even go through the instrument ground school stuff on the computer as well (no reason you can't start on that early, and those are cheap... I need to start on my instrument ground school stuff).

Let's make a distinction between ground training and ground school. Ground school is not required by the regulations, but helps prepare for the knowledge exam. Ground training is required by 61.107 and must be one-on-one with an instructor, who is supposed to log the training.

Bob Gardner
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