Looking for Advice in Helicopter Training

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Ethan

Filing Flight Plan
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Feb 9, 2014
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Forester
Hello everyone, I was directed to your site by a friend of mine while discussing my future options to begin training to become a helicopter pilot and was hoping to pick a few brains of people who have gone through the process. Let me start off with a little introduction. I am a 22 year old kid living in Eastern Washington with an extremely strong desire to fly helicopters for a living! Last May I graduated from Northern Arizona University with a BS in Forestry and am currently a Forester in the Inland Northwest. A large portion of my job is focused on wildland fire (both suppression and ignition) where we heavily utilize helicopters and it is my dream to actually be working up in the air rather than eating smoke and rotor wash on the ground :mad2:

I am currently exploring my options to move forward in pursuing a career in aviation and would love some advice. So far I have toured two schools, Inland Helicopters in Spokane, WA and Guidance Aviation in Prescott, AZ. The only certainty I've found is that helicopter training is not cheap. From what I have gathered to schools seem to be polar opposites with Inland Helicopters being very small, laid back, and less structured (also less expensive) vs. Guidance which is much larger, far more structured, but also far more expensive. So I guess my first question would be is it worth it to spend a lot more money to receive more structured (and high altitude) training or do you recommend taking the cheaper alternative?

I have a multitude of additional questions that I would like to get answered but I was hoping this would serve as a good starting point to open up a discussion.

Thanks!
 
Small place might be more likely to hire you when you get your CFI. Money matters, training is all the same.
 
Cheaper can quite often cost more. However, I would recommend you go with some place that may take you back as a plow back. That is, they'll hire you as a flight instructor after you earn your CFI ticket with them. Until you get 1200-2000 hours in a helicopter, you're essentially un-hirable due to insurance requirements, with the exception of being an instructor.

If location is no factor, I can tell you that my experience with Palm Beach Helicopters, located just south of West Palm Beach in Lantana, FL, was a good one. They're eligible for Post 9-11 GI Bill benefits if you are.

http://www.palmbeachhelicopters.com/

Good luck!!
 
One other thing if you want to live/work in the Pacwest, training there will help immensely.
 
Pretty much what Andy said above.

Basically the path is to get your private pilot's license, instrument rating, commercial and flight instructor rating. Generally this will take about 2 yrs, 250-300 hrs and will consume about 80 grand.

Only job you'll qualify for with those hours is instructing. That'll pay in the mid 20s per year. You'll need to do that for a few years until you get around 1,000 hrs. Then you can move up to doing tours in like Hawaii or Vegas. Not sure about the pay there because it varies on how many flights you do per day. After a couple years there and around 1,500 hrs you can apply for some EMS, fire, law enforcement and some oil & gas jobs. Do that for a few years, get your Airline Transport Pilot cert and move into the higher paying twin engine instrument corporate and contract jobs. Pay can be well into 6 figure salaries with those jobs.

It's a long road and the competition is tight. With the recent changes to the GI Bill, schools have close to 90 % VA students attending. You'll be competing against them for limited instructing positions.

If you get on the websites Just Helicopters or Vertical Reference, there's a wealth of information about schools. Good luck to ya.
 
Might look at Silverhawk in Caldwell, ID. Located in country similar to where you want to eventually work, and cost of living is cheap.
 
I dont know if this is an option in the forestry service, but in law enforcement occasionally an agency will pay for someone who has the trooper credentials to go through the flying stuff on their dime. Some of the 'public use' helos are self insured so you are not tied to the insurance company driven ladder of time-building jobs laid out above.
 
I wouldn't recommend going into law enforcement in the hopes of flying helos. As posted, he'll have to be an officer first, often for anywhere from five to 10 years before being picked for a pilot position. Many agencies using helicopters require an officer/deputy to be a flight officer first, prior to moving into the pilot's seat. The flight officer's job is the tough one - he is not just looking at activity on the ground and relaying the information, but directing the response, setting perimeters, coordinating positions for responding units, suggesting tactics, monitoring calls on multiple radio channels, operating an optical or FLIR camera and often doing all that at night, while coordinating with the pilot. Only a highly proficient patrol officer has the experience and knowledge to do that job.

It works best when the pilot has been in the flight officer's seat so he can work with him better, position the aircraft better and be a more active part of the team.

There are agencies that will have a faster track to helos, but still not without putting in time on patrol. Some of the largest agencies provide all of the training, and some require at least private or commercial, and they'll provide the upgrades. But again, competition is very keen - LAPD, for example, has 10,000 officers and only about 35 are pilots.
 
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ateamer said:
I wouldn't recommend going into law enforcement in the hopes of flying helos. As posted, he'll have to be an officer first, often for anywhere from five to 10 years before being picked for a pilot position.
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I did not suggest for him to go into LE to become a helo pilot. I was wondering whether there is a similar track somewhere in forestry where someone could leverage training and experience as forester within the agency to make it into a turbine seat.
 
I know a place that will get you from zero time to commercial RW for free.;)
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! As for the Forest Service recommendation, that is a no go for me as I work in the private sector of Forestry focusing mainly on land that is managed for timber production. Unfortunately I am not a veteran so I am not eligible for GI Bill benefits, which brings me to my next round of questions. I am learning that finding a loan for flight training is difficult if not non-existent unless I enroll in a schools degree program, which makes me eligible for student loans. Do any of you have any experience or have any insight in taking degree program route vs. completing your ratings on your own time? Since I already have a BS I am not too keen on paying additional money to get an associates degree, however that may be my only option. Also, any good tips/advice on finding a loan would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hustle. Never borrow. Way too fickle and low paying to take a loan. You get a loan and you won't be able to afford taking a flying job.
 
Also, Im assuming that Blackhawk was referencing joining the military? I have considered this but my main worry is that there are really no guarantees in becoming a pilot in the military. From what I have read, the marines are the only branch that can guarantee you placement in the aviation field but this still does not guarantee any pilot training. Thoughts?
 
Recent college graduate, degree in computer engineering, hired by major company. Learned to fly army helicopters in the national guard 2 years ago(free)Commissioned 2nd lt. Son of a friend of mine. It's always supply and demand. If the military needs helicopter pilots, they will sign a contract with you making certain you will get the training. If they have enough, forget it. It's all timing. Easily answered. Go to the army recruiter and ask. At times they will guarantee flight training, other times not.
 
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Ethan said:
Also, Im assuming that Blackhawk was referencing joining the military? I have considered this but my main worry is that there are really no guarantees in becoming a pilot in the military. From what I have read, the marines are the only branch that can guarantee you placement in the aviation field but this still does not guarantee any pilot training. Thoughts?
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There are no guarantees in life. As with anything the bigger the risk the bigger the reward.

There are a few military trained helo pilots posting here, they can offer advice. If you really want a career flying helos the military (or NG) would be a good place to start.
 
If your heart is set on helicopters, the Army is the way to go as far as the military option is concerned. You can get a "guarantee" for a helo slot when you sign up, but you have to ensure you get this in writing before you sign your name to the dotted line. I have guarantee in quotes because if for some reason you don't cut it with the helo program, you will still be obligated to serve whatever time you signed up for.

Assuming you stick with the civilian side, my advice is to keep your current job (assuming that it pays well enough) and get your ratings as you can. As Greg mentioned, avoid going into debt for this. The first job you get will probably pay chicken feed, and you don't want to worry about how you're going to afford the Ramen Noodles from week to week while you're building your hours.

For the record, I started flying full time when I was 36 and have done pretty good with it. That being said, you have plenty of time to get your ratings/flight time squared away before you make the leap to professional pilot.
 
Plus one for voting going Army!

Edit: Being a vet will also help with wherever you go in hiring points.
 
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Ethan said:
I am learning that finding a loan for flight training is difficult if not non-existent unless I enroll in a schools degree program, which makes me eligible for student loans. Do any of you have any experience or have any insight in taking degree program route vs. completing your ratings on your own time?
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DO YOUR RESEARCH. There are a lot of schools out there that are over priced and emphasize certain parts of their training or maintenance as superior. The truth is, they're a lot more similar to each other than any one of them would like to admit. Be skeptical when talking to flight schools. A lot of them are full of it.

I did my research and decided on Leading Edge Aviation in Bend, OR. This required that I move from Georgia. This was the program I felt gave me the best mix of what I was looking for in a flight school. I've been very happy with this school and, after learning more about some of the other schools I had considered, am still happy with that decision. But, your priorities might be different than mine, so again, do your research.

Yes, going through flight training that is paired with an academic program will give you more options for loans. You don't need the degree, but if you need access to the loans, it might be worth it. Many people do this, whether they want the degree or not, because it is their best option for obtaining the loans they need.

Ethan said:
From what I have read, the marines are the only branch that can guarantee you placement in the aviation field but this still does not guarantee any pilot training. Thoughts?
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The Army will sign you up as a warrant officer candidate, but it's on you to not wash out. That's as close to a guarantee as you will get.

The best advice that I can give you, once again, is to do your research. Research the schools, research the industry, research anything that is applicable to this career path. The training is expensive and time-consuming, and to top it off, you are practically worthless as a pilot fresh out of training for nearly any job besides instructing. Getting your first job is difficult, and there is a very real chance that you never even get a first job. Many people don't. Either they have trouble standing out amongst the crowd for a CFI job, or they get an offer but can't afford to accept the low pay that CFIs get, or they get an offer but it requires that they relocate and they decide no to move their family, etc. Remember, the path that most people have to take includes instructing, and the flight schools can only hire a fraction of the people they train. Which group will you be in, the majority that don't get hired, or the minority that do?

Good luck though. Flying helicopters is a hell of a lot of fun. If you're willing to work for little pay, willing to move anywhere in the country, and willing to work long hours and weekends, there just may be a future for you in the industry.
 
I have no idea what a forester earns, is there any way you can pay for the training up the point of getting your CFI out of ongoing income ? Without debt, it is a lot easier to instruct part-time while continuing to work in your forestry career.
 
As Jim Cooper pointed out the Reserves/Guard are another route. Air Force and Army, if you are picked up by a unit, will send you to flight school guaranteed. Marines and Navy you must be a military rated pilot before they will take you in the Reserves.
 
I joined the Army for five years as a Blackhawk crew chief at 17. I wanted to learn all I could about how the UH-60 and the Army worked. After about 18-24 months, I had a physical, took the knowledge test and sent a bunch of paperwork in. In a short time I received a letter of acceptance to attend a class at Ft. Rucker that would have lasted about a year. I decided not to go because pilots at that time were only getting 4 hrs/mo, I was a newlywed and felt the Army was very unorganized. Looking back now, I wish I had accepted the class. Another six years seemed like an eternity at the time. Not so much now. You will also get treated better as a warrant or commissioned officer in the military. Finally at 38, PPC and then built our RV-10. Good luck whatever you decide!
 
Forester, my advice is to go on Vertical Reference. Any question you have about schools will be answered there. If you go into the General Military section you'll see it's dominated by the WOFT guys. Anything you want answered about flying in the Army will be there. There's even a WOFT Guide that one of the applicants (now a student) put together.
 
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