LimeWire ?

AdamZ

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Adam Zucker
My daughter wants to put Limewire on her computer so she can get music. I checked out the Limewire website but it dosen't give that much infomation.

Two questions

1) Is it safe. I read about a year a go that folks were using Limewire to hack into computers quite a bit. I have since been told that Limewire has fixed this problem with thier newest version. Can anyone give me the skinny on this?

2) Is it legal? My daughter says she can get music for free on Limewire as it is whats called a file sharing site. Wasn't that what Napster was and wasn't that found to be a theft of IP?
 
Safe? It's only as safe as the user. It's not difficult for someone who isn't careful to download a virus that's be renamed to that of a popular song. A conscientious user can usually stay away from virii/trojans, but I wouldn't really call any file-sharing software "safe".

Legal? Not if she's downloading copyrighted music. It's possible to share files on the network that aren't copyrighted or have been released for public distrubution, but that's not what most people use the file-sharing software to download. The chances are she wants to download copyrighted music.
 
Safe? It's only as safe as the user. It's not difficult for someone who isn't careful to download a virus that's be renamed to that of a popular song. A conscientious user can usually stay away from virii/trojans, but I wouldn't really call any file-sharing software "safe".
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Yeah thats a concern as how conscientious is a 13 year old.

Legal? Not if she's downloading copyrighted music. It's possible to share files on the network that aren't copyrighted or have been released for public distrubution, but that's not what most people use the file-sharing software to download. The chances are she wants to download copyrighted music.

Thats what I couldn't figureout. so whats Napster now? A music purchase site like iTunes?
 
A conscientious user can usually stay away from virii/trojans,


What steps should the average internetter take, to stay away from viruses and trojans?
I thought they normally arrived undetected and that was the problem. Its not like you get a pop-up window, "Do you want to dl this virus?" Just bein' sassy. But seriously, how does the conscientious user.....become conscientious?
 
Adam--it is safe if the user is intelligent and careful. If the user is not very computer savvy it usually results in them downloading a virus.

It is not legal at all. I am sure she'd download copyrighted songs (that is what most people do) and you might get a letter from the RIAA someday over it.

A good, free, legal music option is www.pandora.org.

There is no free lunch.
 
it is safe if the user is intelligent and careful.

there it is again!
Exactly what makes a user intelligent and careful? I want to be I & C!
 
Adam--it is safe if the user is intelligent and careful. If the user is not very computer savvy it usually results in them downloading a virus.

It is not legal at all. I am sure she'd download copyrighted songs (that is what most people do) and you might get a letter from the RIAA someday over it.

A good, free, legal music option is www.pandora.org.

There is no free lunch.

Jess, and everyone else thanks very much this is pretty much what I thought but didn't have any information to back it up.
 
My daughter wants to put Limewire on her computer so she can get music. I checked out the Limewire website but it dosen't give that much infomation.

Two questions

1) Is it safe. I read about a year a go that folks were using Limewire to hack into computers quite a bit. I have since been told that Limewire has fixed this problem with thier newest version. Can anyone give me the skinny on this?

2) Is it legal? My daughter says she can get music for free on Limewire as it is whats called a file sharing site. Wasn't that what Napster was and wasn't that found to be a theft of IP?

1) No.

Well, let's qualify that. It's about as safe as giving your neighbors the keys to your house. Maybe they're honest, maybe not. You're sharing files with strangers and opening ports on your computer. If you're tech savvy, you can probably do this safely. If not, it's only a matter of time before your PC is compromised.

2) No, it's not legal, at least not for its usual uses. The only way it would be legal would be if you only shared files to which you owned the copyright, which you had permission to distribute, or which were in the public domain. Any other use is a violation of the DMCA and other copyright laws.

-Rich
 
What steps should the average internetter take, to stay away from viruses and trojans?
I thought they normally arrived undetected and that was the problem. Its not like you get a pop-up window, "Do you want to dl this virus?" Just bein' sassy. But seriously, how does the conscientious user.....become conscientious?

It's tough. Some of the stuff out there has been planted by MPAA or RIAA and can be tough to distinguish from actual media files. Other stuff is put out there by miscreants and thieves. Some files are designed specifically to exploit holes in the file-sharing software (Benjamin was an early example of such malware).

Nonetheless, there's a considerable subculture of committed file-sharers who know all the ins and outs of minimizing risk while sharing files. I'm not one of them. I do know of a program called PeerGuardian that blocks access to known malicious computers (as well as government agencies, the RIAA, and other anti-P2P entities). But the fact that it's designed to facilitate an already-illegal activity and frustrate efforts to detect it place it in a pretty shadowy realm, I'd say.

-Rich
 
OK, but absent concrete suggestions on how to be a 'safe internetter', I will maintain it is not straightforward or easy....(certainly not likely for a 13yr old).
 
Adam:

No, it's generally used for downloading copyrighted material, which has gotten some folks into biiiiig trouble. (See the article someone linked to - $80,000 per song! Ouch! I think that's completely bogus, but we all know what my thoughts are worth...)

My suggestion? Get her a nice iTunes Gift Card every so often. Problem solved.
 
The Limewire clients were full of crapware and spyware. I guess you'd see on those links above if they haven't cleaned up their act. I'd keep it off of my PC.

The RIAA is not going anybody using BitTorrent. There's a reason. It's not easy at all to nail down a user.

BUT they just got a $1.92 MILLION judgement against a woman for sharing 24 songs. If you think that's a bargain compared with ITunes or Amazon MP3 downloads...
 
OK, but absent concrete suggestions on how to be a 'safe internetter', I will maintain it is not straightforward or easy....(certainly not likely for a 13yr old).

Pretty much Dave. Although there are plenty of 13 yr old(s) who are not only capable of using it safely -- but using it maliciously -- or building an entire replacement themselves.

When I was younger and in the "younger" computing crowd online..there were some very very crazy smart young folks with a poor understanding of ethics running wild.
 
The Limewire clients were full of crapware and spyware. I guess you'd see on those links above if they haven't cleaned up their act. I'd keep it off of my PC.

The RIAA is not going anybody using BitTorrent. There's a reason. It's not easy at all to nail down a user.

BUT they just got a $1.92 MILLION judgement against a woman for sharing 24 songs. If you think that's a bargain compared with ITunes or Amazon MP3 downloads...

There was a time when cleaning virii and spyware numbering in the hundreds (and occasionally thousands) off family computers that the kids (and sometimes adults) used for file sharing was a big part of what I did every day. That's not the case any more. Kazaa was probably the worst of the lot, and made a lot of money for me cleaning up the damage during its heyday.

Nowadays, the vendors seem to have cleaned up their acts somewhat as users started getting smart. The apps themselves don't install so much garbage, and what some of them do install is of a tamer nature (for example, relatively harmless banner ads rather than out-and-out trojans).

But P2P users are still opening up their computers to anonymous users. In fairness, this is also true to an extent almost any time you connect a computer to the Internet. But P2P applications, by definition, are dsigned to facilitate anonymous sharing. This can never really be considered "safe." And then, as has been mentioned, there's the risk of being sued, as well as just the fact that it's illegal, that have to be considered. Artists do make a living off their music, after all.

Rich
 
...And then, as has been mentioned, there's the risk of being sued, as well as just the fact that it's illegal, that have to be considered. Artists do make a living off their music, after all.

Rich

NI AG GRA FALLS! It's not "illegal," it's a civil matter, although the recording and movie industries tried mightily to have criminal laws passed and have the US Justice Dept do the dirty work for them.

And artists don't get a single penny of any of this money. The money is for the copyright holders, who are the record companies that get the rights when the young bopper signs and takes the first check, which he thinks is a paycheck but it's really a loan.

Read the Slashdot link. The wisdom is that this judgment was so excessive it's the death knell for the RIAA extortion racket. The RIAA is backpedalling furiously because THEY don't want it to stand.

They sell the songs for 99 cents. The damage was $24.
 
NI AG GRA FALLS! It's not "illegal," it's a civil matter, although the recording and movie industries tried mightily to have criminal laws passed and have the US Justice Dept do the dirty work for them.

....

Actually, it is a crime under certain circumstances. It has to be (1) willful, and (2) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain. How these might apply to an average user is beyond my layman's knowledge, but the law does recognize that at least in some cases, copyright infringement is actionable both civilly and criminally. (18 U.S.C. 2319.)

As for the rest, I'm inclined to agree with you. Nonetheless, sharing via P2P does expose you to significant civil liability, regardless of how irrational the judgments may be. It is what it is, regardless.

-Rich
 
I like the idea of the iTunes gift card. Probably lots cheaper in the long run.
 
I like the idea of the iTunes gift card. Probably lots cheaper in the long run.

Michael we do give her iTunes gift cards for gifts and recognition Distinguished Honor Roll etc. But I'm the kind of parent who dosen't beleive in just giving her an iTunes gift card because she wants more music. ( And lets face it they always want more music).

We really try to teach her that other than the necessities that its important to work for the things she wants. So if there are some new songs or a blouse she wants or if she wants to go to a movie with some friends we think she should have the understanding that these are things that are not " entitlements" So being a smart kid and wanting to stretch her dollars she thought gee if I can get music for free I can use the money for that new Shirt I wanted.

I posted here to confirm my suspicions. I thought it sounded funny but for those of you that have young teens you will agree I'm sure that Dad's insistance that you can't do that means very little to them because their 13 year old friend has assured her that its ok to do it and that its perfectly kosher because after all what does dad who has been around for 46 years know compared to her girlfriends?......Nuthin thats what.

Of course it doesn't help my position that her friends parents who are in fact good people either look the other way or just surrender to avoid the aggrevation. I just think its important to send the right message. Heck I was the meanest dad in the world and my daughter was doomed to be a social outcast (in her mind) because I wouldn't let her lie about her age so that she could get on facebook. But Dad so and so's dad lets them do it. To her credit she asked me and complies with my rules. She may whine and moan but generally follow my rules ( kids do have to rebel somewhat) So my promise to her was that I'd check the issue out here and if I was wrong she could get it. But I ain't wrong :D
 
Several years ago, I tipped off a neighbor in the old hood when I heard his daughter give out a lot of info on the 'L', including "I used to use Kazaa but I can't because it's illegal now."

THAT was the point of the RIAA strong arm campaign.
 
Um...no.

The actions are illegal when committed. You cannot be punished until adjudicated, but the action was still illegal.

That's pretty much my point re: legality. The chances of being sued / prosecuted probably are pretty small for the average user. But it's still illegal, for better or worse; and I don't think I would want to set an example that stealing is okay because I don't happen to like the parties being stolen from.

As for the chances of adjudication, I think some history may help shed light on this.

Starting, oh, maybe eight or nine years ago, RIAA began taking action against individual P2P users. At first, they targeted users who were sharing ponderous numbers of songs. The logic was that the damages in these cases would be multiplied by the number of users who downloaded songs from these users, rather than just the number they downloaded themselves.

This still is the basis for the seemingly outrageous awards: A user may only have a few dozen illegally downloaded songs, but they may have shared those songs with thousands of other users who (according to the plaintiffs) otherwise would have had to pay for those songs. Of course, this is a dubious assumption: It's doubtful whether most users would have the money to pay for all the songs they download for free using P2P, much less be willing to spend it. But it's still the basis they use as a starting point when calculating alleged damages.

In the last few years, however, RIAA seems to have changed part of their strategy. They now have started targeting users with far fewer songs, on the assumption (as Mike pointed out) that this strategy will be more effective at discouraging average users. It's basically a scare tactic, and the chances of any particular user being singled out for litigation is still pretty small. But it does exist.

Yes, some users who are truly committed to P2P go to extraordinary lengths to do so with impunity, such as by using anonymous proxy services or other strategies to try to obfuscate their identities. And most likely, these people will never be caught. The RIAA doesn't waste their time with these people when there's so much low-hanging fruit waiting to be picked. But these highly-committed, highly-motivated, highly-sophisticated users represent a tiny fraction of the total. Most P2P users are kids. They see an opportunity to get free music, and they jump on it.

So what should you do? Well, I'm not the type of person who tells other people how to live. "Live and let live," I say. Just running my own life in a reasonably moral manner most of the time is a full-time job. But when asked about P2P, my standard answers are: Yes, it does present a potential risk to your computer; yes, it is illegal to share copyrighted materials; and yes, there is a risk, however small it may be, that users can be sued (or possibly even prosecuted) for doing so. As for the rest, I think it's up to every individual's conscience.

-Rich
 
Like many others have said, don't do it Adam. Between the risk of virus and spyware plus the legal issues, its just not worth it. Other have said it, nothing is "free".
 
That's pretty much my point re: legality. The chances of being sued / prosecuted probably are pretty small for the average user. But it's still illegal, for better or worse; and I don't think I would want to set an example that stealing is okay because I don't happen to like the parties being stolen from.

As for the chances of adjudication, I think some history may help shed light on this.

Starting, oh, maybe eight or nine years ago, RIAA began taking action against individual P2P users. At first, they targeted users who were sharing ponderous numbers of songs. The logic was that the damages in these cases would be multiplied by the number of users who downloaded songs from these users, rather than just the number they downloaded themselves.

This still is the basis for the seemingly outrageous awards: A user may only have a few dozen illegally downloaded songs, but they may have shared those songs with thousands of other users who (according to the plaintiffs) otherwise would have had to pay for those songs. Of course, this is a dubious assumption: It's doubtful whether most users would have the money to pay for all the songs they download for free using P2P, much less be willing to spend it. But it's still the basis they use as a starting point when calculating alleged damages.

In the last few years, however, RIAA seems to have changed part of their strategy. They now have started targeting users with far fewer songs, on the assumption (as Mike pointed out) that this strategy will be more effective at discouraging average users. It's basically a scare tactic, and the chances of any particular user being singled out for litigation is still pretty small. But it does exist.

Yes, some users who are truly committed to P2P go to extraordinary lengths to do so with impunity, such as by using anonymous proxy services or other strategies to try to obfuscate their identities. And most likely, these people will never be caught. The RIAA doesn't waste their time with these people when there's so much low-hanging fruit waiting to be picked. But these highly-committed, highly-motivated, highly-sophisticated users represent a tiny fraction of the total. Most P2P users are kids. They see an opportunity to get free music, and they jump on it.


...

A couple of things: Jamie Thomas wasn't a random choice. She has been vocal about rights in other matters, and when she got the extortion letter she took a stand to go all the way to trial. The RIAA has feared an actual trial verdict up until they couldn't get out of this one. There's also word that they took advantage of anti-Native American bias in the jury. Note that the jury gave a lot larger award than the plaintiffs asked for.

The RIAA hasn't sent the "pay up" letter to anybody for over a year. The word is they wanted to back off to save the few CD buyers that were left.

The lawyers are all saying the outrageous size of this award is really, really bad for the RIAA and they know it.
 
Please..PLEASE don't use limewire.

Too many things wrong with Limewire..if you're looking to "obtain" copyrighted material, PM me and I'll get you pointed in the right direction.
 
You should buy her a bunch of blank tapes and have her record the songs off the radio! :D If she doesn't have a tape deck/radio, she can take her tape recorder and put it next to the radio speaker!
 
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