Liberty University in Virginia

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Amazing that a person with only 30+ posts can manage to attract enough attention with nothing but vitriolic input to almost derail the thread.

Yes, Liberty was started by Jerry Falwell, Sr., of whom most people have probably heard but far fewer actually knew. He was by and large not the man as portrayed in the media, and that is clearly evident when you learn more about him. I used to be one of those who held a fairly dim view of who he was and the impact that he had until I learned the facts.

The school is now run by his son, Jerry Falwell, Jr., and under his leadership has grown substantially. Jerry Jr. I believe is a UVA law school graduate. Liberty is one of the largest 4-year non-profit colleges in the nation by enrollment. Aside from some bigoted individuals and competing organizations, I can't think of anyone who has anything bad to say about the educational experience or Liberty graduates. I can't imagine Liberty being a detriment to employment except with folks for whom you really wouldn't want to work anyway, and quite possibly may be an asset with some individuals and employers. Liberty's location means that it isn't a big city school, though, which parents may like but young students may not.

It is true that the college has a church affiliation (Thomas Road Baptist Church) and is overtly Christian. With that being said, there have been and continue to be people of differing backgrounds who attend Liberty, and many of them have written or spoken positively about their experiences. If you're not planning to major in religion, or live to be a rule-breaking party animal, I can't imagine that the Christian affiliation will cause much of a problem and will likely provide an environmental benefit.

I believe that their aeronautics school was boosted significantly by the acquisition of Falwell Aviation, which was owned and operated by relatives of Jerry Falwell. The Falwell family has a rather long and extensive involvement in general aviation, so I suspect that heritage has and continues to benefit the university's commitment to its aviation program.


JKG
 
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Liberty (avoiding the religious issues, there was a pretty good article a while back from some Jewish guy who went there...sort of like Rick coming to Casablanca for the waters) is a reasonable school. I fly through the LYH area regularly and their students sound pretty good on the air when they are flying. If you want to know about the softball program, drop me a PM. My sister has coached the major high school girl's softball program in the area and has sent girls to various schools. I will ask her if you like.
 
JoseCuervo said:
If the only way you can get a degree is by overpaying a for-profit diploma mill that advertises on late night TV and their primary admission criteria is suitability for student loans, depending on the position, you likely would not be able to function in a position that requires a college education.

I knew a recruiter for one of the big for-profit universities, Academics were not a consideration for admission, nor for retention. Eligibility for student loans was the primary consideration for admission AND retention.
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I didn't mention profit-making schools. I was responding to the classroom versus non-classroom prejudice you admit to with regard to your application screening. I've done college both ways, and the non-traditional approach was both more challenging and more rewarding. Having had that experience, I would be inclined to prefer candidates with degrees earned non-traditionally, all else being equal.

As for profit-making schools, I have no direct experience upon which to base an opinion because I have never attended one. If a school were accredited by a recognized accrediting agency, however, I wouldn't automatically dismiss it solely because it managed to turn a profit. That sounds more like an ideological bias on your part.

In the spirit of fairness, however, I'll offer up my own ideological bias in return. I find the notion that colleges and universities in general are "not-for-profit" institutions to be rather quaint and naive. American higher education, especially at the undergrad level, is a racket worthy of a RICO indictment. The entire industry is rotten to the core. I find it hard to justify the assertion that accredited proprietary schools are any more corrupt than the rest.

Rich
 
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JoseCuervo said:
As an employer 2500 miles away, and never having stepped on either campus. I can assure you if I saw a resume with UVA on it, I would give it serious consideration.

If I saw a resume with Liberty U on it, I would toss it, as I have no interest in hiring people scared of challenge and learning.

Just me.

(I also toss resumes from online and for-profit schools. If you can't function in a real college environment, I have little confidence you can function in the real world.)
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LMMFAO

I hold no brief for Liberty or ORU but to say that "non-denominational" schools offer challenge and learning is nonsensical...one only need to look at the mainstream colleges and their "trigger warnings" and "safe places" to understand that there is no challenge and little learning.

The rank bigotry in this thread is downright disgusting and appalling. In this thread try substituting the words Christian and Evangelical with black and gay and tell me if those same words you posted would be acceptable.

And before someone accuses me of an agenda, I fell away from my religious upbringing over 30 years ago.
 
bradg33 said:
Ah yes, just like the poor County Clerk in Kentucky who is refusing to issue marriage licenses in spite of a court order; she's a shining example of the faithful. And those people wanting to exercise their legal rights are just ****ing in her sandbox. How awful!
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And that woman should be locked up...however do you feel the same wrath for elected officials of sanctuary cities or the President who has been ignoring and ordered deportation actions to stop?

You can't be outraged by one without being outraged by the other...the law is the law and needs to be enforced it can't be just the laws your side agrees with.
 
NHWannabe said:
LMMFAO

I hold no brief for Liberty or ORU but to say that "non-denominational" schools offer challenge and learning is nonsensical...one only need to look at the mainstream colleges and their "trigger warnings" and "safe places" to understand that there is no challenge and little learning.

The rank bigotry in this thread is downright disgusting and appalling. In this thread try substituting the words Christian and Evangelical with black and gay and tell me if those same words you posted would be acceptable.

And before someone accuses me of an agenda, I fell away from my religious upbringing over 30 years ago.
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NHWannabe said:
And that woman should be locked up...however do you feel the same wrath for elected officials of sanctuary cities or the President who has been ignoring and ordered deportation actions to stop?

You can't be outraged by one without being outraged by the other...the law is the law and needs to be enforced it can't be just the laws your side agrees with.
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Yeah, no agenda there.....

LMFAO....

Welcome to POA.....
 
RJM62 said:
I didn't mention profit-making schools. I was responding to the classroom versus non-classroom prejudice you admit to with regard to your application screening. I've done college both ways, and the non-traditional approach was both more challenging and more rewarding. Having had that experience, I would be inclined to prefer candidates with degrees earned non-traditionally, all else being equal.

As for profit-making schools, I have no direct experience upon which to base an opinion because I have never attended one. If a school were accredited by a recognized accrediting agency, however, I wouldn't automatically dismiss it solely because it managed to turn a profit. That sounds more like an ideological bias on your part.

In the spirit of fairness, however, I'll offer up my own ideological bias in return. I find the notion that colleges and universities in general are "not-for-profit" institutions to be rather quaint and naive. American higher education, especially at the undergrad level, is a racket worthy of a RICO indictment. The entire industry is rotten to the core. I find it hard to justify the assertion that accredited proprietary schools are any more corrupt than the rest.

Rich
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I have 7 seconds to look at a resume and decide if it is tossed or further reviewed.

I, like all other humans, rely on experience and previous proven results. Doesn't mean there are some good candidates tossed, but, if you have a stack of 50 resumes for a position, you learn how to get to the 3-5 that are worth following up.

Yes, I rely on personal biases and previous experiences to make decisions. I find random number generators to be less successful.
 
I guess labeling your opponents bigots makes it easy to avoid having an actual debate.
 
Something I was going to point out, long before the religious debate got roaring was, for a flight school, Liberty has by far the highest number of females in it, that I'd seen. I only was there for a day at LYH with an AOG 1900, but in my brief time there I saw more females getting in and out of 172s than I ever did at Embry Riddle.
 
dmspilot said:
I guess labeling your opponents bigots makes it easy to avoid having an actual debate.
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Sometimes people make their bigotry quite obvious
 
Well this has turned into a royal pi$$ing match. OP take a look at OSU and WMU for softball and aviation. OSU has anything and everything anyone could want from a college but is massive. Campus is spread out and with 50,000 plus students it's one of the biggest colleges in the country. Western Michigan is smaller and has a GREAT aviation program as well as a D1 (I think) softball program. I've toured both schools and got my ppl through OSU and along with UND they are the schools I'm applying to in a few months. If you have any other questions about either feel free to ask. Hope this helped.

Back to your regularly scheduled religious debate...
 
Folks lets take a step back and chill a bit. This post is headed toward SZ and the OP just asked about a school for his kid. Deep Breath's everyone. Lets treat each other with a bit of respect.
 
AdamZ said:
Folks lets take a step back and chill a bit. This post is headed toward SZ and the OP just asked about a school for his kid. Deep Breath's everyone. Lets treat each other with a bit of respect.
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Delaware sucks!


:D
 
AdamZ said:
Folks lets take a step back and chill a bit. This post is headed toward SZ and the OP just asked about a school for his kid. Deep Breath's everyone. Lets treat each other with a bit of respect.
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Adam, is it possible to go through and just delete the posts attacking religion and/or the school because of its religious leanings?

The poor guy just wanted info on the school and these folks just unloaded.

Very sad. :(
 
EppyGA said:
Adam, is it possible to go through and just delete the posts attacking religion and/or the school because of its religious leanings?

The poor guy just wanted info on the school and these folks just unloaded.

Very sad. :(
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Really? Are you kidding me? And how about deleting all the namecalling and attacks on people who criticized it? :rolleyes:
 
EppyGA said:
Adam, is it possible to go through and just delete the posts attacking religion and/or the school because of its religious leanings?

The poor guy just wanted info on the school and these folks just unloaded.

Very sad. :(
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So, only people who happen to agree with your religious views are allowed to comment? How thin is that air in Atlanta?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
So, only people who happen to agree with your religious views are allowed to comment? How thin is that air in Atlanta?
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Where did he say it was his religious views? He didn't. He simply asked if the posts attacking the school because of its religious foundation could be deleted. I think I know where the thin air is.
 
mikeinbama said:
Where did he say it was his religious views? He didn't. He simply asked if the posts attacking the school because of its religious foundation could be deleted. I think I know where the thin air is.
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You know, I'm going to walk away from this, with this final thought. The group that screams "help help, I'm being repressed" is often the group that is doing the most repression out there.
 
mikeinbama said:
Where did he say it was his religious views? He didn't. He simply asked if the posts attacking the school because of its religious foundation could be deleted. I think I know where the thin air is.
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That right there is what the problem with liberty University is.

People should want to understand what the critics say about the university before they spend the money on sending their kid to college there.

Eventually, the kid will have to go out in the real world.


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JoseCuervo said:
That right there is what the problem with liberty University is.

People should want to understand what the critics say about the university before they spend the money on sending their kid to college there.

Eventually, the kid will have to go out in the real world.


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Log, splinter, and all....
 
JoseCuervo said:
That right there is what the problem with liberty University is.

People should want to understand what the critics say about the university before they spend the money on sending their kid to college there.

Eventually, the kid will have to go out in the real world.
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If I see a resume from someone who went to Duke, it gets a nudge away from me.

I brought up this subject with the other consultants here during lunch yesterday. Our consensus was that there are far more people who will be positively impressed by seeing Liberty on a resume than turned off by it. There will be more doors opened by other Christians than closed by bigots. In between will be a lot more people who don't care about the religion and find the school's standards to be high.
 
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I tool my last IPC with an LU graduate. Seemed well-trained, competent and a good instructor. Would recommend. Will, as a matter of fact. Her names Amanda, Dream Flight School at DMW. If the op wants to talk to someone who's been through LU, give her a shout.
 
bflynn said:
If I see a resume from someone who went to Duke, it gets a nudge away from me.



I brought up this subject with the other consultants here during lunch yesterday. Our consensus was that there are far more people who will be positively impressed by seeing Liberty on a resume than turned off by it. There will be more doors opened by other Christians than closed by bigots. In between will be a lot more people who don't care about the religion and find the school's standards to be high.
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I would say people's reactions to your educational institution often depends on where you work and where you are located in the country. Just as there are different college cultures, there are different company cultures.
 
The way the word "bigot" is tossed out like candy is disgusting. Is Forbes bigoted because they gave Liberty a ranking of 639 out of 650? Notre Dame is #17. UVA #36.
 
dmspilot said:
The way the word "bigot" is tossed out like candy is disgusting. Is Forbes bigoted because they gave Liberty a ranking of 639 out of 650? Notre Dame is #17. UVA #36.
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The bigots at Forbes are clearly uninformed "libs" who hate Liberty's "Christian" influenced education. I mean, who wants an objective education when one can get one heavily modified by religion? There's no place for things like "science" or "facts" in Lynchburg.
 
dmspilot said:
The way the word "bigot" is tossed out like candy is disgusting. Is Forbes bigoted because they gave Liberty a ranking of 639 out of 650? Notre Dame is #17. UVA #36.
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It depends, if they used the metric that the school is run by evangelical whacko's to arrive at the ranking, then yes, they are bigots. If they used other measures, then I would say that they are not.
 
mikeinbama said:
It depends, if they used the metric that the school is run by evangelical whacko's to arrive at the ranking, then yes, they are bigots. If they used other measures, then I would say that they are not.
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Liberty's graduation rates aren't exactly stellar. 4-year graduation rate is 27%, 6-year graduation rate is 50%.

As some additional data points, the graduation rates of other schools mentioned in this thread:

Auburn - 38% (4yr)/68% (6yr) (still pretty bad)
Duke - 87% (4yr), 94% (6yr)
University of Virginia - 86% (4yr)/93% (6yr)
 
bflynn said:
If I see a resume from someone who went to Duke, it gets a nudge away from me.

I brought up this subject with the other consultants here during lunch yesterday. Our consensus was that there are far more people who will be positively impressed by seeing Liberty on a resume than turned off by it. There will be more doors opened by other Christians than closed by bigots. In between will be a lot more people who don't care about the religion and find the school's standards to be high.
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As I prefaced in my first comment in this thread, I am 2500 miles away from both Liberty and from U of Virginia. Never stepped foot on either one.

Without looking at Google:

I know one university was founded by Thomas Jefferson.

I know one university was founded by a television preacher.


One has a nationally known and respected business school.

One doesn't.​


I got 7 seconds to sort resumes.

Yeah, that is a pretty simple and effective criteria.
 
Jose....go find another rock to crawl under. Yer beginning to mumble and repeat yourself.:nono: :rolleyes2:

....so, let me be the first to say....No way Jose. :goofy::rofl::goofy:
 
dmspilot said:
The way the word "bigot" is tossed out like candy is disgusting. Is Forbes bigoted because they gave Liberty a ranking of 639 out of 650? Notre Dame is #17. UVA #36.
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I don't know what goes on at Forbes. I do know that if someone bases their opinion of Liberty on the religious affiliation, then bigot is exactly the correct word.

Does that apply to Forbes? Unknown.
 
bradg33 said:
Liberty's graduation rates aren't exactly stellar. 4-year graduation rate is 27%, 6-year graduation rate is 50%.

As some additional data points, the graduation rates of other schools mentioned in this thread:

Auburn - 38% (4yr)/68% (6yr) (still pretty bad)
Duke - 87% (4yr), 94% (6yr)
University of Virginia - 86% (4yr)/93% (6yr)
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These are all valid points. This should be the content of the debate.

JoseCuervo said:
As I prefaced in my first comment in this thread, I am 2500 miles away from both Liberty and from U of Virginia. Never stepped foot on either one.

Without looking at Google:

I know one university was founded by Thomas Jefferson.

I know one university was founded by a television preacher.

Irrelevant to the topic

One has a nationally known and respected business school.

One doesn't.

Also valid points, argue them.
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I got 7 seconds to sort resumes.

Yeah, that is a pretty simple and effective criteria.
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This is also valid if you are using the second set of criteria as your bench mark, not so much if you are using the first.

JoseCuervo said:
Is there something wrong with describing the real world?
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Not at all, but your opinion is but a tiny sampling of the real world and I hope if nothing else, you realize that there many others who don't share that view, that doesn't invalidate their point of view or yours, or necessarily make yours correct.

I really am going to stop now. These types of debates are better in person where we would all be more polite, myself being the chief of that.
 
NHWannabe said:
The rank bigotry in this thread is downright disgusting and appalling. In this thread try substituting the words Christian and Evangelical with black and gay and tell me if those same words you posted would be acceptable.



And before someone accuses me of an agenda, I fell away from my religious upbringing over 30 years ago.
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Apples and oranges as they say.

You are born with your skin color.
You are born with your sexual orientation.
Same for your gender, country of origin and a few other characteristics.
Discrimination based on those is bigotry and is wrong.

However, you choose what to believe. One's beliefs can be judged and even held to be foolish by others and you can be discriminated against because of them. That is not bigotry. Yeah, I know the EEOC and other big government control freak bureaucracies say otherwise.

In my opinion discriminating on the basis of one's religious, political, scientific or other beliefs is not bigotry. You are often making a judgment regarding the person's intelligence.


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