Legal Question

[drgwentzel]

Flyers,

I wrote a while back in the "Lessons Learned" section about a flap malfunction. In brief, on approach to landing I put out 10° of flaps on the downwind, but unbeknownst to me at the time the full 30° came out. Within a few seconds I noticed the problem and just left them out while I dragged the plane around the pattern and did a normal landing.

Now, on my aircraft a normal takeoff calls for 10° of flaps and my concern began when I thought about what would happen if all 30° came out on my takeoff and not on landing. What if I had the plane filled to near maximum gross weight on a warm day with a 50 foot obstacle. Would I have noticed the problem before take-off, or if not, would I have noticed the problem shortly after takeoff and been able to abort the takeoff on the remaining runway, or could I have at least have been able to bring the flaps up to zero once I noticed the plane was not climbing normally? Would I have noticed what the problem was at all before the inevitable crash? It seems like such a scenario could have been a disaster waiting to happen.

So my question is: Is this a reportable incident since it involved a malfunction of control surfaces? Are the flaps considered control surfaces?

The problem ended up being a fracture of the control cable that runs from the switch to somewhere in the wing. I don't know if the FAA would consider this worthy of AD or SB of some sort as the time on the cable increases and increases the likelihood of this occurring.

As I stated, depending on when it breaks, it is either an inconvenience or it can be the last link in a terrible accident chain.

Gene Wentzel

 

[SCCutler]

If it merits one, the A&P can file an SDR. I think that's all it needs, unless you relish extra attention from your FSDO, and a comprehensive examination of your entire process of flight planning and more.

 

[EppyGA]

Why would one in a light GA aircraft not visually verify flap position prior to taking the runway?

I flew a 172 that had a flap switch that was not spring loaded to return to center and on a couple of occasions hit the switch without remembering to return it to the middle position and dumped 40 degrees on downwind. It always got my attention and never caused an issue as I caught it and immediately brought them back to 10 degrees and went from there.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

On a high wing aircraft it is easy to see the flaps. Memorize where they should be. On a low wing aircraft (Piper) its not critical and will not cause an accident.

I did know a guy who put a red permanent marker on the hinge of his flap and you could see if it were 10, 20, 30'

One advantage to owning your own aircraft is that you can get it fixed so that it never does that again.....

 

[drgwentzel]

Why would one in a light GA aircraft not visually verify flap position prior to taking the runway?

Ahh!! Monday morning quarter backing eh? Well, to answer your question, because this planet seems to have generated, by luck, mathematical certainty, or divine intervention, living beings that are by nature fallible and therefore make mistakes that produce results, that are by definition, unintended and undesired. :wink2:

Gene Wentzel

 

[douglas393]

Ahh!! Monday morning quarter backing eh? Well, to answer your question, because this planet seems to have generated, by luck, mathematical certainty, or divine intervention, living beings that are by nature fallible and therefore make mistakes that produce results, that are by definition, unintended. :wink2:

Gene Wentzel

So what you are essentially saying is that it is the earth's fault that I make mistakes. Thanks, I will try that on my wife the next time I forget to pick up my socks. I just do not see her accepting it. :wink2:

 

[poadeleted20]

What Spike said -- it's not an "incident" to be reported to the NTSB, but the cable failure should be reported to the FAA by your mechanic as either a Service Difficulty Report (SDR) or Malfunction/Defect Report (MDR). See http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/ for details.

 

[kkoran]

You would probably notice it on takeoff roll as the plane starts to lift off at an abnormally low airspeed and flat attitude.

 

[iflyforfun]

Ahh!! Monday morning quarter backing eh? Well, to answer your question, because this planet seems to have generated, by luck, mathematical certainty, or divine intervention, living beings that are by nature fallible and therefore make mistakes that produce results, that are by definition, unintended and undesired. :wink2:

Gene Wentzel

Love the response. I often see objections to technologies based on the "well I always ..." or "everyone knows you should ..." line of reasoning. If we were all perfect, if we never made mistakes, if we weren't human, this entire flying thing would be a lot safer. Since we are human, since we do make mistakes, we should deploy technology to assist (not to rely upon, to assist).

I've seen a lot of rocks thrown at new technologies - traffic avoidance and that new fangled autopilot with autoland come to mind - where the general logic is, "See and avoid" or "You should always know where the nearest airport is, and besides what if it flys you into the side of a mountain".

Yup, you should keep you eyeballs outside the airplane. Though occasionally, a kid starts puking in the back, or you get a change in routing, or your GPS goes TU and you get distracted. That is what technology can assit with.

But, no dice, what were you thinking and why didn't you catch it earlier ... what, you a crappy pilot or sumthin?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Use it as future incentive to always rotate your head both ways to visually confirm your flap setting after selection by the flap control, every time. Helps keep the neck from getting stiff too.

 

[Tommy3]

This happened to me after landing a C152 on a grass strip. Backtaxied and reconfigured the airplane for takeoff, including moving the flaps lever to 10deg. Unfortunately, the lever had become disconnected and the flaps remained at 30deg, unbeknownst to me. I realized what was going on shortly after takeoff, which seemed fine--it was trying to climb that was the issue. In another plane, or an obstacle at the departure end of the runway, it could have ended badly. So now I always verify flaps visually.

I did not report it to anyone except the mechanic. Limped home with 30deg of flaps, keeping it under Vfe.