Learning From Other Pilots: Routine Limits And Rules

[PBristolJr]

When I'm flying with another pilot: "If you see me doing anything that looks questionable call me out, and I'll do the same for you."
Just to clear the air in case the other pilot has a problem sharing his feelings.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

When I'm flying with another pilot: "If you see me doing anything that looks questionable call me out, and I'll do the same for you."
Just to clear the air in case the other pilot has a problem sharing his feelings.

Thanks, I should add this to my briefing too. My recent ride I was a bit slow on base and the almost CFI simply said "nose down." I wish he would have said "watch your airspeed" but either way it means the same thing.

 

[JohnAJohnson]

Thanks, I should add this to my briefing too. My recent ride I was a bit slow on base and the almost CFI simply said "nose down." I wish he would have said "watch your airspeed" but either way it means the same thing.

That's an interesting observation and is a noted difference between men and women. Men jump to a solution, the fix. We like to fix things

A group of men enter an elevator... No one pushes a floor button. After a while, someone will say, "push a button".

A group of women enter an elevator... No one pushes a floor button. After a while, someone will say, "we're not moving."

 

[denverpilot]

I have seen a lot of different techniques, but can't say that I consciously know all of them I've picked up or discarded over the years.

Sterile cockpit isn't one of them, for example. I do it if I'm with someone who desires it. If I'm flying, I know where the pilot isolate switch is on the intercom and I'm not adverse to using it. At all.

Most flights with other pilots, most of them know when to shut up. Most of the way back from OSH there was a Mooney ahead of us with "seven niner" in his tail number. It became a running joke that everyone kept getting interrupted in our chatting during cruise by our brains hearing "seven niner" (since my airplane is N1279M) and our mouths stopping automatically every time we heard it from the controller.

Takeoff briefings are good but I've gotten out of the habit of saying them out loud. They did pound into my head that it's unlikely I'm ever turning back below 500', maybe higher, though. Pick the softest thing within a twenty degree arc straight ahead and hit that.

I like having another pilot along reading the checklist and doing challenge-response, but it takes practice with someone to do it fluidly. Especially if I'm busy I'll gladly take comments from others on anything missed. I've politely or jokingly said stuff for other pilots too... "We going all the way there with the flaps at 10?" along with a big grin.

Or more gingerly, "Engine temps look good, think we can close the cowl flaps now?" Embarrassing maybe, but in the end, who cares. We're a crew in this aluminum can together.

I always do at least a walk-around pre-flight and have had at least one CFI tell me it wasn't necessary. I just walked around anyway. I also always touch things during pre-flight and pull and wiggle things. And also during checklists. Touch it, don't just look at it. People see things they want to see.

Let's see. Trim. Always. I was a stickler for trim before the instrument, now even more so. Our airplane unfortunately will bank right without control pressure and I'd like to see that fixed. Rigging issue somewhere. But I don't like flying around out of trim. I play with it quite a bit.

The three-strikes thing is good. Also listening to the little voice that says "something's wrong".

Little stuff. Not sure I can articulate it well, though.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

That's an interesting observation and is a noted difference between men and women. Men jump to a solution, the fix. We like to fix things

I immediately thought the same thing. I have as equal respect for male and female pilots, and I don't believe I have a prejudiced bone in my body, but the genders do tend to approach things from a different mindset.

...
Little stuff. Not sure I can articulate it well, though.

Oh please. You kept me up way, way WAY late a couple of nights in a row while I devoured your IFR training novel. I'm a big reader, and I can't stand reading poorly thought out or written material. Yours was neither.

 

[Everskyward]

My rules are, don't kill me and don't get me violated. Otherwise I'm happy.

I know pilots who are very procedurally oriented and some who are not. I think it's part of your personality first, then part of your training. I learned in a very unstructured environment and it was only years later I had to adapt to some structure... with a little bit of kicking and screaming.

In an elevator if no one is pushing the button I'll reach over and do it myself!

 

[denverpilot]

Oh please. You kept me up way, way WAY late a couple of nights in a row while I devoured your IFR training novel. I'm a big reader, and I can't stand reading poorly thought out or written material. Yours was neither.

That's nice of you to say, but here on PoA I write in a "train-of-thought" style. My English teacher would kill me. It ends up too wordy and with two or so drafts can be cut down and simplified. I rarely have time to do the drafts and self-editing though, just for an Internet forum.

Maybe someday I'll fire up a blog with a purpose of telling some story again. I tend to at least give those a one-pass edit before posting. Anything we did for the podcast that was scripted (not much, we just talked mostly) also gets a lot more care and attention.

Thanks for the "flowers" though. Makes me want to sit down and do some "serious" writing, but that requires a topic that one is passionate about and a potential audience. Most of the things I'm passionate about already have better authors writing about them.

 

[somorris]

I know pilots who are very procedurally oriented and some who are not. I think it's part of your personality first, then part of your training. I learned in a very unstructured environment and it was only years later I had to adapt to some structure... with a little bit of kicking and screaming.

I am part of the group that isn't very procedurally oriented. That is the way I learned from my CFI, my DPE was kind of that way, and I have continued down that road. I am pretty much that way in everything I do. I have a friend that is very procedurally oriented. When I fly with him, I think "Man, am I sloppy!" I do better my next flight, but am soon right back to my old self .

 

[Everskyward]

I am part of the group that isn't very procedurally oriented. That is the way I learned from my CFI, my DPE was kind of that way, and I have continued down that road. I am pretty much that way in everything I do. I have a friend that is very procedurally oriented. When I fly with him, I think "Man, am I sloppy!" I do better my next flight, but am soon right back to my old self .

I know it's an odd feeling when two people with different styles are paired together flying. I'll be thinking, "Geez, why are you so rigid?" I know why we need to be on the same page and why some procedures are necessary but some people want to know and follow an exact formula for every step of the way. It's a little like flying using a recipe.

 

[bobmrg]

If the wind is straight down the runway, which direction do you turn?

All other things being equal, turn into the wind...decreases the turn radius.

Bob Gardner

 

[Rigged4Flight]

That's nice of you to say, but here on PoA I write in a "train-of-thought" style. My English teacher would kill me. It ends up too wordy and with two or so drafts can be cut down and simplified. I rarely have time to do the drafts and self-editing though, just for an Internet forum.

Maybe someday I'll fire up a blog with a purpose of telling some story again. I tend to at least give those a one-pass edit before posting. Anything we did for the podcast that was scripted (not much, we just talked mostly) also gets a lot more care and attention.

Thanks for the "flowers" though. Makes me want to sit down and do some "serious" writing, but that requires a topic that one is passionate about and a potential audience. Most of the things I'm passionate about already have better authors writing about them.

You gave me bags under my eyes. BAGS! UNDER MY EYES!

Seriously, though. Not trying to stroke your ego, but I remember thinking that the pace of your writing definitely kept me hooked.

 

[35 AoA]

A few that I've learned or developed over the years:

1) Always challenge your assumptions. Nothing gets you in trouble quicker than assuming something based on old or bad information. It's important to recognize when things are different than you expected them to be, and how habit patterns can get you in trouble in these instances.

2) Small sky, small planes. There are very few times when the hairs on the back of my neck are not standing up, telling me to keep my eyes outside looking. Partly this has to do with the kind of flying I do, but even in admin phases of flight (departure and approach/terminal environment) I have had more than enough close calls. In fact, the closest I have come to a midair has been in the GCA box at a towered airfield. Probably 5/10 of my closest calls have been around towered fields overall.

3) Use the boring moments to set yourself up for the exciting ones. System management, and getting ready for the next phase of flight. I learned this out of necessity, as you really need your navaids/approach stuff/radalt/fuel checks/etc done before you punch into the clouds as a wingman where you dont have time to do much other than fly form until you break out on final. That said, it is a good habit for any flying that I do. It gets my mind thinking about the next thing, and things always get busier with freq changes, vectors, alt changes, etc and having everything set up makes things flow much better and just helps me sit back and listen.

4) Piggybacking on #3, LISTEN. Probably should be #1, or even higher than #1, but I just got to it so this is #4. Always listen. Get proficient enough at the flying stuff so that you can do it while listening, and don't ever ever ever get into the habit of turning radios down to concentrate on what you are doing. The radio is your biggest tool for SA, regardless of what you do, or what other tools and goodies you have on board........I have them all, and they are all useless if I don't obey this rule. You always need to be listening and building a mental picture of what is going on around you. It makes everything else easier......whether it be decision making in poor/deteriorating weather, knowing what freq to expect next, what routing to expect, what conditions to expect at an airfield, etc etc etc.

5) It isn't over until you are parked in the chocks. There are a lot of things that can go wrong on the runway after landing. You wouldn't be the first person to die after going sideways off the runway at 50 kts. I always have to catch myself on the landing roll-out, and consider the folks before me who have died at such docile seeming speeds.